Crown

RC:

Dario:

Your source is wrong. 991 Turbo needs 35.x seconds from 0-300 kph and this car has even 10 horses less than the 997 Turbo S. You are also wrong about down force and drag, a very nice graphic explaining it will be available to the press in August. 

Yes, top speed is reached in 6th gear but this is nothing new. 6th gear cannot be too long since it limits the top speed to 318.

So according to your statement if the 991 turbo needs 35 secs a 40 hp would make 6 secs off different to the turbo S... Or almost 20% faster

Dario:

We will see how wrong i am. Sport Auto will show us exactly the Top speed on Döttingerhöhe and we know the Speed of the Old 997 turbo s.

where did i mention the 991 turbo, spoke about 991 turbo s with 32 secs

The only source who could tell you better than mine would be...god. I doubt that you spoke to him.

There are no official test results from the Nordschleife, so whatever you have been told or shown, this is probably stuff somebody (third party, competition, etc.) picked up from 991 Turbo S testdrives on the Nordschleife. The only number Porsche made official was the 7:27 min for the Turbo S on street tires (PZero).

I heard that some competitors seem to make false claims about the new 991 Turbo S when they talk to customers, also I heard that some sales persons were in Portugal for the Panamera facelift presentation and that they claim that they drove the 991 Turbo S and weren't too impressed. Truth is: There was a 991 Turbo S in Portugal but Porsche offered only passenger rides, people were NOT permitted to drive themselves, this is maybe the reason some were p.ss.d and made false claims. Just saying... There was also a press driving event a short while ago on an airfield, SAME THING...ONLY passenger rides offered. Just to be clear.

I mentioned the Turbo because even the Turbo does 0-300 kph under 36 (35.x) seconds, the Turbo S under 30 seconds (29.x). Best time the Turbo S achieved from 0-200 kph was 9.7 seconds. Best time from 0-100 kph was 2.9 seconds.

3.1 seconds and 10.3 seconds (0-100/0-200 kph, official claim) will be achieved always, under all driving conditions.

Sport Auto has not tested the 991 Turbo S yet, Christian Gebhardt just joined a development invitation to South Africa where Porsche had a couple of mules for testing. A Supertest will come but not before August or September, very likely later. Maybe Kreso knows more...

You are comparing the 997 Turbo S numbers with the current 991 Turbo/Turbo S. The new Turbo/Turbo S has a completely new AWD system (PTM), this is the next generation, not just an improved Carrera 4 version. Also PDK shifting time has been improved a lot, which already makes a huge difference in performance. Also, according to what I heard, the whole package seems to work pretty well, which is also quite surprising, according to my source "better than expected".

Of course I can only tell you what I've been told (and shown) but to make it short: It was quite impressive. If the car does what I've seen and if real life performance is 0-100 kph at or under 3 seconds flat, 0-200 kph at or slightly under 10 seconds, I am very happy. On the track, most cars (and drivers) won't have a chance vs. the new Turbo S because even if it may not be the fastest (take the GT2 RS for example or the GT3 on UHP tires), if you take the same skilled driver and put him in these three cars, he will always be the fastest in the Turbo S. The new Sport Plus mode and even PSM off setup is really amazing, very amateur-friendly and quite enjoyable. The new reax axle steering is out of this world, if you ever have driven the old 997 Turbo S, the new one just has no understeer at all and when you enter the curve, the rear slides a little bit and pushes you through the curve. The steering is razor sharp (almost race car like), it leads you exactly where you want the car to go, pretty amazing.

To make it short: Wait for the press reviews and I have a feeling that Chris Harris will get one of the first Turbo S for a nice video shoot.

Speaking of your 991 Turbo vs. Turbo S comparison (35.x seconds vs. 29.x seconds), the 6 seconds gap. Your forget a couple of things here: 1. The Turbo S engine revs up to 7200 rpm (for a purpose, it helps to optimize the "shifting gap") and 2. The Turbo has a different boost mapping at speeds over 200 kph (the air blades on the Turbo S push more air, so the "proportional" boost is higher). Also I don't know if the 35.x seconds claim was with or without Sport Chrono active, keep that in mind too.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I am reading and refreshing this page all the day, everyday.

Strange thing is, people intend to pay 200.000,00 for the best daily/sportscar combination and speaking about only one thing - 0-100, 0-200, 0-300,... like nothing else makes the car a dream car.

I found a good link for this purpose, as everything can be faster than fast.

http://www.dragstersforsale.com/id222.html

smith68:

I am reading and refreshing this page all the day, everyday.

Strange thing is, people intend to pay 200.000,00 for the best daily/sportscar combination and speaking about only one thing - 0-100, 0-200, 0-300,... like nothing else makes the car a dream car.

I found a good link for this purpose, as everything can be faster than fast.

http://www.dragstersforsale.com/id222.html

 

The 0-100, 0-200 numbers just come up from time to time, of course they are not the only things defining a dream car.

What I really like about the new 991 Turbo S is the new PTM (AWD) setup and the rear axle steering resulting in a very nimble handling performance, combined with superior traction and a very good engine performance, making it an excellent daily driver. This is actually what makes a 911 Turbo a real dream car. I also love the rear of the new 991 Turbo/S, not the greatest fan of the wing but still, the rear is very sexy. I also love the active aerodynamics, even if it may not be really felt in daily driving situations.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC,I am here mostly to hear the news from you, as it is very impressive that somebody is so enthusiastic.

I am waiting for P-dealer to come back from Leipzig tomorrow,as I already told him to help me to sell my 997 TTS.

I will test the car probably in October, and buy his first car  or wait for Jan 2014,with rear camera.

Many things in 991 are much better according to this informations :handling, longer wheelbase (less up-downs),sound (I can hear nice resonance like in my old catless S4 bi-turbo.

Only thing i would like to try if it has midrange power which I miss in 997 tts.

Thank you.  It is easy to be enthusiastic when Porsche makes such exciting products. Of course they aren't perfect (I get it, I really do) but looking at their products as a whole, I doubt that there is much competition left.

I was disappointed when I heard that there is no difference between the Turbo and Turbo S engine (but the little subtle  differences like air blades for more air flow, higher rev limiter, different sound symposer action, etc. make the Turbo S the better buy anyway). Yes, 600 hp would have been nice but on the other hand, Porsche has achieved a daily driver with amazing capabilities, so maybe they should leave something for the facelift in four years or so.

Now that I know much more details about the car, I also understand Porsche's pricing and setup much better but this is something I shouldn't discuss here because this isn't something customers should be worried about. 

I'm curious to hear about your testdrive in October... 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Do you think the 991 setup is sportier than the 997.2 was?

Do you think the gap between the GT3 and the Turbo S has been significantly reduced?

SciFrog:

Do you think the 991 setup is sportier than the 997.2 was?

Huge difference. The 991 Turbo S has, unlike the Carrera 4 models, a completely new PTM (AWD), new chassis and the rear axle steering. This is the next generation. It feels very go-kart like but like I said before, the dampers still seem to provide comfort, which is quite amazing. It is a bit of an artificial feel, simply because this hasn't been achieved yet on a different car but I love it.

Do you think the gap between the GT3 and the Turbo S has been significantly reduced?

Hugely reduced (track of course, on the street, the GT3 never stood a chance) but the GT3 is lighter, louder and has a very nice (and new) PDK. The GT3 is all about emotion and drive feel, the Turbo S more about being fast as possible without taking a sweat. Both are intriguing but for my purpose, I prefer the Turbo S. 

With UHP tires/semi-slicks, the 991 Turbo S would actually beat the GT3 on the Nordschleife. Interesting: The Dunlop UHP tire used on the GT3 is also approved for the 991 Turbo S. 

From a performance/price ratio point of view. I think the 991 GT3 is the best offer right now from Porsche.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Kind of a waste of a post but I love the insight I get from this forum and thread. I had previously been a member of m3post/6speedonline/rennlist and the like but I have to admit, the amount of acumen I've read just from gleaning this thread is worth it's weight in gold. 

RC, forgive me if I've skipped over it but do you have a spec sheet of your build? I, too, was on the boat for the 991 GT3 but was convinced to go with the TTS for use and practicality (albeit I COULD have DD'ed a GT3 in warm Cali). 

RC:

3.1 seconds and 10.3 seconds (0-100/0-200 kph, official claim) will be achieved always, under all driving conditions.

You are comparing the 997 Turbo S numbers with the current 991 Turbo/Turbo S. 

Speaking of your 991 Turbo vs. Turbo S comparison (35.x seconds vs. 29.x seconds), the 6 seconds gap. Your forget a couple of things here: 1. The Turbo S engine revs up to 7200 rpm (for a purpose, it helps to optimize the "shifting gap") and 2. The Turbo has a different boost mapping at speeds over 200 kph (the air blades on the Turbo S push more air, so the "proportional" boost is higher). Also I don't know if the 35.x seconds claim was with or without Sport Chrono active, keep that in mind too.

under all conditions ex. 35 degrees celsius 4 person on board plus luggage and some altitude above msl, nope. Test standards are not done under worst condition and heavy wight... I dont believe that.

i m am comparing the engine of the 997.2 turbo/S vers the 991 turbo/s engine and since you are saying that the new 991 turbo S is from 200-300kmh almost 5-6 secs faster than 991 turbo (up to 200 kmh the gap is bretty small) with only 40hp difference i do question that. specialy in those speed range 200-300kmh were almost all the power is needed to over come drag 40hp doent make a 5+ secs gap.

So if we stay with your numbers 0-300kmh under 30 secs, so 991 turbos 560 is about equal to the 997 gt2 rs with 620hp... or the mp4-12c with 625 hp..

i doubt that also., When you look closely to the 0-280 31 sec vid, you see that 5th gear maxes nearly out and there is one gearshift more coming and that means a rev drop and more time to go to 300. Maybe in better conditions it would allow 0-280 in 28 sec. but a 0-300 in under 30 sec is not possible with 991 Turbo S. I expect 32-33 seconds.

Lets face it RC you want to talk your choice (didnt happen the first time but who can blame you ;)) pretty.

Dario:

RC:

3.1 seconds and 10.3 seconds (0-100/0-200 kph, official claim) will be achieved always, under all driving conditions.

You are comparing the 997 Turbo S numbers with the current 991 Turbo/Turbo S. 

Speaking of your 991 Turbo vs. Turbo S comparison (35.x seconds vs. 29.x seconds), the 6 seconds gap. Your forget a couple of things here: 1. The Turbo S engine revs up to 7200 rpm (for a purpose, it helps to optimize the "shifting gap") and 2. The Turbo has a different boost mapping at speeds over 200 kph (the air blades on the Turbo S push more air, so the "proportional" boost is higher). Also I don't know if the 35.x seconds claim was with or without Sport Chrono active, keep that in mind too.

under all conditions ex. 35 degrees celsius 4 person on board plus luggage and some altitude above msl, nope. Test standards are not done under worst condition and heavy wight... I dont believe that.

i m am comparing the engine of the 997.2 turbo/S vers the 991 turbo/s engine and since you are saying that the new 991 turbo S is from 200-300kmh almost 5-6 secs faster than 991 turbo (up to 200 kmh the gap is bretty small) with only 40hp difference i do question that. specialy in those speed range 200-300kmh were almost all the power is needed to over come drag 40hp doent make a 5+ secs gap.

So if we stay with your numbers 0-300kmh under 30 secs, so 991 turbos 560 is about equal to the 997 gt2 rs with 620hp... or the mp4-12c with 625 hp..

 

I have the same question - 29 secs against 35 secs for 0-300 is too much isnt it?

nberry:

Beige or two tone natural with expresso/cognac would go well with GT Silver. Both would give the interior a richer look becoming of a $200,000 car.

nberry,

One last question for you on color. What are your thoughts on a solid black interior with the GT Silver?

Thanks

Quite impressive what I am reading from Christian - THANKS A LOT FOR THESE GREAT INSIGHTS !!!

hunterone:

i doubt that also., When you look closely to the 0-280 31 sec vid, you see that 5th gear maxes nearly out and there is one gearshift more coming and that means a rev drop and more time to go to 300. Maybe in better conditions it would allow 0-280 in 28 sec. but a 0-300 in under 30 sec is not possible with 991 Turbo S. I expect 32-33 seconds.

Lets face it RC you want to talk your choice (didnt happen the first time but who can blame you ;)) pretty.

Just wait for the first test results...or a video from me for that matter (not sure I will have time to run in the car before the winter kicks in though).

The video from Sport Auto says nothing, you don't even know if they used the stock gear ratio. 

Speaking of 40 hp difference only between the Turbo and Turbo S: Like I said before, the rev limiter is set higher on the Turbo S and there is "proportionally" more boost in the higher speed range at certain rev figures due to the enhanced air flow through the Turbo S air blades.

I guess we need to have to wait for real life test results since you don't believe me.  

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

KresoF1:
Christian,
991 Turbo S will be Supertested earliest in September and this Supertest will be published maybe in October issue.
Do not forget that Supertests of SLS Black and F12 Berlinetta are on hold and also wil be published this autumn as well.

Btw, according to my P source Sport Auto already booked both 991 GT3 and 991 Turbo/Turbo S for Supertests. I asked directly can we expect 991 Turbo S time close to factory claim-7.27min he said very directly NO. Something like 7.33min is realistic in HvS hands.

Little bit off topic-new Lambo "Cabrera" will have NA V10 with more then 600ps that will fullfill EU6 despite using 7th gear on DCT as power gear.

Theoretically, yes. Due to the new PSM/PTM setup however, I think that HvS will get pretty close to the time Walter Röhrl apparently achieved (7:27) because this setup is very very amateur friendly (not that HvS is an amateur but it will make his life easier). Also if Porsche decides to let the 991 Turbo S run on the approved UHP tires (Dunlop SportMaxx), the same used on the GT3, we could be in for a surprise.  Since these tires are officially approved for the Turbo S(along the PZero), it wouldn't be cheating. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Dario:

 

i m am comparing the engine of the 997.2 turbo/S vers the 991 turbo/s engine and since you are saying that the new 991 turbo S is from 200-300kmh almost 5-6 secs faster than 991 turbo (up to 200 kmh the gap is bretty small) with only 40hp difference i do question that. specialy in those speed range 200-300kmh were almost all the power is needed to over come drag 40hp doent make a 5+ secs gap.

So if we stay with your numbers 0-300kmh under 30 secs, so 991 turbos 560 is about equal to the 997 gt2 rs with 620hp... or the mp4-12c with 625 hp..

 

Maybe I should also add that while the 991 Turbo S engine is an improved version of the 997 Turbo S engine and based on it, practically no part, incl. the VTG chargers, is the same. All parts have been optimized and developers seem to be surprised how well the package works in the new car. Just as a little side note. This is not exactly the same engine from the 997 Turbo S, even it is based on it.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

shaunt:

Kind of a waste of a post but I love the insight I get from this forum and thread. I had previously been a member of m3post/6speedonline/rennlist and the like but I have to admit, the amount of acumen I've read just from gleaning this thread is worth it's weight in gold. 

RC, forgive me if I've skipped over it but do you have a spec sheet of your build? I, too, was on the boat for the 991 GT3 but was convinced to go with the TTS for use and practicality (albeit I COULD have DD'ed a GT3 in warm Cali). 

Thank you. We have very knowledgable and enthusiastic people over here. 

My Turbo S will be agate grey met. with a black/Carrera red bi-color interior (I kind of regret the agate met. a little bit but I can still use foil to change the color if I don't like it). Seats are 18-way sport seats plus.

The Turbo S is already quite loaded with options, the only additional stuff I ordered is:

- Sunroof in glass (looks great with that black paint on the roof)

- Headlight cleaning system covers painted in exterior color

- PDK gear selector in Carbon

- Phone "preparation" (Bluetooth)

- Online services (available only in certain countries)

- Steering wheel rim with deviating stitching (red stitching, looks great)

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

The Turbo S is already quite loaded with options, the only additional stuff I ordered is:

 

- Model designation on doors in Black

 

 

 Christian,i like this...but i don't know if i have the courage to choose it.

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo

You can barely see it and no matter if Turbo S or Turbo, people will envy you. I still believe however that a 911 Turbo S is less provocative than a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Maybe leaving the model designation away completely is the best choice for you (still thinking about mine...on the engine lid).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

mmh...i dubt we are talking of the same thing,or at least i'm wrong.

i'm thinking at the decals on the side of the car...like on the 997GT3RS mk1,what you are talking about?

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo

KresoF1:

991 Turbo

 

991 Turbo S

 

The 0-300kph 991 turbo versus 991 turbo S - I was looking at the graphs above which  KresoF1 posted and something jumped out at me which meant the Turbo S probably would be a lot faster 0-300 than the 991 turbo, Porsche marketing in its modern day sloppiness is quoting maximum power for the turbo S as 421KW - this is 573PS which with this curve would be enough for sub 30s 0-300 , unfortunately the goons who make these mistakes got the 2 and 1 the wrong way round (I guess) and it should be 412KW 

Regardless of the (very) sloppy typo the S does have a much higher area under the curve from 6000 to 7200 (only to 7000 in the cooking turbo), producing 537PS from 6000rpm to just past 7000rpm, still don't think this will be enough to break 30s, I am in the 32s camp 

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

according to my power conversion 421 kw  =  564.5703 hp

The correct kW figure is 412, which converts into 560,32 hp.

As for the 0-300 kph time: There is a certain engineering reality when a certain "machine" runs pretty well, better than expected, despite the naked (even measured) numbers and despite the fact that it shouldn't run that well. The new 991 Turbo S seems to be such a "machine", just wait for the real life results. 

I can only tell you what I have been told, I didn't make the 991 Turbo S. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Super Darius:

mmh...i dubt we are talking of the same thing,or at least i'm wrong.

i'm thinking at the decals on the side of the car...like on the 997GT3RS mk1,what you are talking about?

We are talking about the same thing. Of course if you take black on white, it will be obvious but if you take like me black on agate grey, people won't see it immediately.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

Super Darius:

mmh...i dubt we are talking of the same thing,or at least i'm wrong.

i'm thinking at the decals on the side of the car...like on the 997GT3RS mk1,what you are talking about?

We are talking about the same thing. Of course if you take black on white, it will be obvious but if you take like me black on agate grey, people won't see it immediately.

ok,ok...all right now

every time you talk of  "agate grey" i think to a clear silver,and black to silver is not like black to white,but...not far.

Instead for me will be black on white,so too much for a Turbo S...

checked the configurator to see the decals...,now they are little,and looks sure less invasive,so...i can add them if i will choose the TTS!
 

--

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo

Just received an update on my 991 Turbo S production today: My car will be finished September 27th 2013. 

The Oct. 5th embargo still seems to be in place but it takes a couple of days before my car arrives at the dealer, so I think the time is just perfect (Sept. 27th is a Friday, the car goes on the truck the week after, so it should be at the dealer around October 1st or 2nd (Oct. 3rd is a national holiday) or on the 4th. Just perfect for a Oct. 5th or latest Oct. 7th pickup. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Pentium:

The clients base has changed. People wants to be seen in these cars more than 

So IMO you should not be worried where Porsche is taking their cars but where people are asking Porsche to take their cars.

In the end the world with everything surrounding us, including cars, is a reflection of the people.

 

 

That is the nature of the car biz , but esp at this time, as a younger generation of Porsche sports car intenders -from new as well as traditional  markets - and who love tech toys way more than cars, attain wealth. 

We long term owners start to come off a bit cranky and cotchity and condescending to them . It is a natural cycle...the guys driving sports cars in the 50s and 60s who are still alive , probably look at the  harder core current  Porsche enthusiasts among us  as soft compared to them and what they drove. 

If the Bluetooth or stability control or ABS failed in your brand new GT3, , you'd be at your service dept the next morning demanding this intolerable  or unsafe driving situation be fixed ASAP, LOL.

Conrad2:

nberry:

Beige or two tone natural with expresso/cognac would go well with GT Silver. Both would give the interior a richer look becoming of a $200,000 car.

nberry,

One last question for you on color. What are your thoughts on a solid black interior with the GT Silver?

Thanks

My view is that though an all black interior is acceptable, it can be somewhat pedestrian.