Crown

xandi911:

its time to stop guys..  its the new 998 NA....

and thats it...  lets stop the conspiration...

Who said something about a 998?

Btw: it just came to my ears that the 997 successor won't be internally called 998 but 991. Welcome to the world of surprises. 

Hi RC - Hasn't the 991 designation been known for awhile? (refer to my post earlier in this thread).

Spyderidol:

Hi RC - Hasn't the 991 designation been known for awhile? (refer to my post earlier in this thread).

Yes you are right spyder, it has been known for a long time and who cares about internal designation minutia.

The only one surprised here lately has been RC. He told us to relax constantly that the panamera mule was not the real deal, that the real deal was going to different. I think RC needs a new crystal ball, his is cracked.

Spyderidol:

Hi RC - Hasn't the 991 designation been known for awhile? (refer to my post earlier in this thread).

I got confirmation a couple of days ago, everything before that was pure speculation based on what some employees caught up from their departments, making this speculation availalbe to the public.  I didn't even see the post where somebody else mentioned the 991 designation, sorry.

Regarding the Panamera: I doubt that you guys understood me well. Don't forget that my mother language isn't English, so I apologize for any misunderstanding.

I just said that the mules aren't the real thing because they weren't. Or do you really want to compare the current front and especially the rear to those mules? Of course it is very easy now, that the final design is official, to make claims that the final car looks like the mules.

Just the proportions were somehow right and I mentioned in several posts more than a year ago that despite the early rumors that the Panamera would be BMW 5series size, it would rather be Mercedes S-class size. So I'm not quite sure how there could be a misunderstanding but let it be so.

I would also like to add a little personal note: I'm not working for Porsche, I have a real life job and a family I need to feed. We run Rennteam as a courtesy to fellow enthusiasts, this is not the RC oracle or whatever. So please give me(or us) a break if we're not 100% right with our assumptions/rumors and claims, simply because we're human only and furthermore it even happens that Porsche and others feed us false or modified information to make our life more difficult.

So actually not my crystal ball is cracked but my patience.  

I want to believe RC, he'd been right much more than he's been wrong but I honestly cant see how it would be possible to stuff an engine in the FRONT of that test mule. There's just not enough real estate even if footwells weren't there. Imagine trying to stuff an N.A. 997 engine in your front trunk  under your 997 bonnet & that's somewhat what it would be like. And that's only N.A. 6, how in the world would you ever fit Turbo's or even an 8? Just dont see how it would be possible. But I've been wrong before,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,once.  

The kind of real estate for a front engined Porsche, compared w/ the mule & what this Panorama pic doesnt show is the hood is not nearly as raked as the mule.

--

08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia

Thanks RC. 

I think you know how much we all enjoy the information you bring to us and reading your posts. (not to mention the exquiste Rennteam)

Understand that we are all passionate about Porsche (well some of us at least) and that we enjoy discussing, argueing, gossiping, conjecturing and speculating about our favorite topic. Some of us even spend long hours researching.

We all have different ideas, likes, and dislikes.

No offense intended

OK, since it seems we're playing a "give me all or nothing" game here (and I have to admit that I learned to keep my mouth shut next time), a last word regarding this matter:

1. this is a proto, it doesn't matter where the engine is

2. this is a proto, it doesn't matter what engine it uses, it depends on WHAT they're testing

3. "based" on Panamera technology doesn't mean this thing needs to be exactly the same size as the Panamera

4. the long front part of the Panamera doesn't mean that the engines are huge

5. the Panamera uses its own development V6 (not VW V6 like on the Cayenne) which is also suitable for turbo charging

These were my last words regarding this issue. If you think this is the 911 successor, so be it.

RC:

xandi911:

its time to stop guys..  its the new 998 NA....

and thats it...  lets stop the conspiration...

Who said something about a 998?

Btw: it just came to my ears that the 997 successor won't be internally called 998 but 991. Welcome to the world of surprises. 

--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

RC:

O

5. the Panamera uses its own development V6 (not VW V6 like on the Cayenne) which is also suitable for turbo charging

--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Wow!

That is new

Thanks RC

Enzo911:

RC:

O

5. the Panamera uses its own development V6 (not VW V6 like on the Cayenne) which is also suitable for turbo charging

--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

 

Wow!

That is new

Thanks RC

This new Porsche V6 will be soon to be  shared with other VW Group products.

The Cayenne V6 could not fit under the Panamera bonnet according to Autocar.

MKSGR:

RC:

xandi911:

its time to stop guys..  its the new 998 NA....

 

and thats it...  lets stop the conspiration...

Who said something about a 998?

Btw: it just came to my ears that the 997 successor won't be internally called 998 but 991. Welcome to the world of surprises. 

 

--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

991 = back to the roots 

1997 993 TT Proto 3.8L 700HP

2005 996 TSCab EVO GT700

2006 Noble M400 "M600" 573RWHP

2007 Audi RS4 MTM SC 540PS

RC:

OK, since it seems we're playing a "give me all or nothing" game here (and I have to admit that I learned to keep my mouth shut next time), a last word regarding this matter:

1. this is a proto, it doesn't matter where the engine is

2. this is a proto, it doesn't matter what engine it uses, it depends on WHAT they're testing

3. "based" on Panamera technology doesn't mean this thing needs to be exactly the same size as the Panamera

4. the long front part of the Panamera doesn't mean that the engines are huge

5. the Panamera uses its own development V6 (not VW V6 like on the Cayenne) which is also suitable for turbo charging

These were my last words regarding this issue. If you think this is the 911 successor, so be it.

--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

"1. this is a proto, it doesn't matter where the engine is"

It does if we're trying to tell if this is a 911 or a front engined car. Sorry, RC that doesnt make any sense. 

Are you saying that it's possible that Test Mules for front engined cars can have their engine in the back? Because that would be news to me. 

Say there is an front engined 2 door coming (got it) how would you even know that picture is of the car you heard about?

08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia

Guys RC is just like us, guessing... he could be wrong. Don't hold anyone accountable for speculating on here... we're all speculating putting in our thoughts to try to come to terms with the excitement that is a new Porsche in the coming! weather 991 or 928 who cares, i think we're all super excited. I've been looking closely at mules for years now and RC has been more right than wrong because he's got many sources, which is why i think his words count for a lot in these speculations. 

 I personally do not think this is the next 911 because the shape is different. Yes porsche could make a bold move with the 991 but i highly doubt it. The overhangs are just not 911... spin it however you will.. we don't even need to know where the engine in this mule is IMO.

I asked a couple of car enthusiasts at my work who know nothing about the camo/mule industry of prototypes and all 5 guys concluded it "kinda has bulky proportions unlike a 911" Now from the Panamera mules, we've learned that the bulky panels aren't all stuffed mules or camo... rather it is the real thing. So with that in mind, seeing these mules run around with their bulky low look and long rear overhand, not to mention the huge covered rear wing section... i conclude it should be something else than the next 911.

Keep us the good work guys... let's do this for months and months :)

2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd

RC:

I just said that the mules aren't the real thing because they weren't. Or do you really want to compare the current front and especially the rear to those mules? Of course it is very easy now, that the final design is official, to make claims that the final car looks like the mules.

Just the proportions were somehow right and I mentioned in several posts more than a year ago that despite the early rumors that the Panamera would be BMW 5series size, it would rather be Mercedes S-class size. So I'm not quite sure how there could be a misunderstanding but let it be so.

 So please give me(or us) a break if we're not 100% right with our assumptions/rumors and claims, simply because we're human only and furthermore it even happens that Porsche and others feed us false or modified information to make our life more difficult.

So actually not my crystal ball is cracked but my patience.

First off, You have to need 2 different hats here RC. 1 hat to wear as Rennteam boss/underwriter and another hat to wear as regular contributor to discussions. As Rennteam official I and most others appreciate the best moderation/format (almost after the big change) of any car board.I for years suggested hats and clothing for sale to help underwrite the costs. I can understand your frustration with some who harshly criticised the new situation especially when you chose the route you did. (could have used free software) So many thanks for rennteam and the tenor of the mods, I have put that out many times previously.

But when wearing your other hat as contributor you are fair game to be critisized just like anyone else. On the panamera it is a mixed bag, you always said it would be big - CORRECT, but you did say the final product would look a lot different than the mule.It is the same car with just minor covering over the lights front and back.There was no surprise or disgiuse.So you fed wrong info or what you posted a week or 2 ago about looking at drawings for 5 seconds at a weird angle.whatever. Bottom line you were incorrect. No big deal.

On this new thing time will tell, but stradale made some good points. I find it hard to believe they shoe horn in an eingine similiar to mine in that thing unless it were a dry sump deal.

Just remember criticism of you in a thread does not mean someone does not appreciate rennteam. 2 hats.

racerx:

, but you did say the final product would look a lot different than the mule.It is the same car with just minor covering over the lights front and back.There was no surprise or disgiuse..

MKSGR:

You feel the Panamera looks alike the mules  Actually, I think the end product does look much better: the rear-end is not that bulky and also the front is fairly dynamic. Based on the mule pics I was not able to imagine that the end product would indeed look quite interesting...

mule vs official

absolutely identical, even same mirrors, wheels. The only "disguise" was ever tape and white chalk lines covering windows rear wing, and lights. The real car was always there. There never was a fake body. It was never a mule we just hoped so because it was so ugly.

Now some here think there is a difference? The only difference is peeling tape, a coat of wax, and some lettering. That's why Misha did not believe the real photo's were the real photo's, because there was no difference. NO COCOON

racerx , I must admit that you are right - to the extend .  But , I felt the same when I've seen first 928 (1978)  , strange form , undersized wheels  .. etc. , and then few "magic pen' strokes brought us 1992  GTS !!

P.S. I am sure you like Panamera mirrors

Funny about the mirrors.

I prefer my 1985 928 appearance with the front and rear spoilers. The difference in 928 bodies occurs in the front and rear "bumpers". The big change was in 87 with the aero treatment. 87-95 have the extended rounded butt that looks like a baby with a full diaper. But for the most part the body never changed. And whether pre-87 or after-87 it is still a 928.

It is only the 911 crowd that can call a car a different entire car just because the angle of a taillight was changed.

Atzporsche:

Guys RC is just like us, guessing... he could be wrong. Don't hold anyone accountable for speculating on here... we're all speculating putting in our thoughts to try to come to terms with the excitement that is a new Porsche in the coming! weather 991 or 928 who cares, i think we're all super excited. I've been looking closely at mules for years now and RC has been more right than wrong because he's got many sources, which is why i think his words count for a lot in these speculations. 

 I personally do not think this is the next 911 because the shape is different. Yes porsche could make a bold move with the 991 but i highly doubt it. The overhangs are just not 911... spin it however you will.. we don't even need to know where the engine in this mule is IMO.

I asked a couple of car enthusiasts at my work who know nothing about the camo/mule industry of prototypes and all 5 guys concluded it "kinda has bulky proportions unlike a 911" Now from the Panamera mules, we've learned that the bulky panels aren't all stuffed mules or camo... rather it is the real thing. So with that in mind, seeing these mules run around with their bulky low look and long rear overhand, not to mention the huge covered rear wing section... i conclude it should be something else than the next 911.

Keep us the good work guys... let's do this for months and months :)

--

2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd

997 Mules had the same "huge covered rear wing section”, matter of fact it may even be the same exact one, think I have a pic of it at my office. It has to look like that to give the motorized wing underneath room to go up & down. Which is just another reason it’s the next 911 if you look at that piece of camo it shows exactly the space needed for the rear wing to deploy.    

Dunno why some of you guys can’t see this being the next 911, it's certainly closer in shape to the 997 than the 996 was to the 997 & the whole roof is exactly 911, what are the chances of another model using the same roof line as the 911? I really can’t see how there would be a motor under the front bonnet so what's the chances of another model w/ the same roofline as the 911 w/ the engine in the rear? Even the bonnet, front bumper, rear quarter &  front fender are 911 only they are more flared out, which is exactly what people wanted & the direction the 911 was going.

I've seen all kinds of crazy camo but I just don’t buy the theory that Porsche is going to create a 911'ish one off body/roof just for a front engined test mule & put the engine in the rear of what will be a front engined car, just to fool people. What in the world would be the purpose of testing a mule in the first place if the engine isnt where it's supposed to be? There would be nothing to test in that case.

Everybody knows the next 911 shape isn’t going to be dramatically different. The roofline will be similar, the shape, the body panels will probably see some further molding i.e.) 996 vs. 997 so really the big changes will be in the front & the rear. And what do you know the parts that aren’t really camoed are the areas that probably won’t change dramatically while the areas (front/rear) that will see the most changes are covered up by huge amounts of camo on this test mule. Heck, even the timing for seeing the next 911 mules now makes sense..

ps: And I respectfully disagree - Engine location IS important, it's the biggest clue - Reason:  Porsche will not build another REAR engined sports car for MANY reasons.  Engine in the rear on the mule = next 911.

08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia

eclou:

an interesting point is the front lip spoiler is a 997tt lip pulled wide to the point that the center is kinked inward/upward - signifying that the car is quite a bit wider than a 997 turbo. I would have to agree that this may be some kind of coupe version of the Panamera and much larger than the 911 platform. The wheels appear to be at least 20" as well - probably from the Cayenne line since nothing like that exists currently for the 997's. That gives another sense of scale.

Another observation is that the front and rear tire widths are not so staggered as on a 911 -  suggesting that the weight balance is closer to a 50/50 distribution car rather than a 35/65 rear engine car

IMO the reason the "front lip spoiler is a 997tt lip pulled wide to the point that the center is kinked inward/upward" is because there is already a front spoiler lip there. Think about it. If you tried to put a spoiler lip on top/over your existing lip that's exactly what would happen.

imho it's the next 911:

---------

08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia

racerx:

MKSGR:

You feel the Panamera looks alike the mules  Actually, I think the end product does look much better: the rear-end is not that bulky and also the front is fairly dynamic. Based on the mule pics I was not able to imagine that the end product would indeed look quite interesting...

mule vs official

absolutely identical, even same mirrors, wheels. The only "disguise" was ever tape and white chalk lines covering windows rear wing, and lights. The real car was always there. There never was a fake body. It was never a mule we just hoped so because it was so ugly.

Now some here think there is a difference? The only difference is peeling tape, a coat of wax, and some lettering. That's why Misha did not believe the real photo's were the real photo's, because there was no difference. NO COCOON

There is a saying which may not have direct connection to a car discussion but it may explain some of the posts here: After the war, there are many heroes.

Nothing more to add.

I have no idea what that means, but I have said that the panamera looked like hell from the start and the final waxed version looks like hell warmed over. Xandi, Stradale, and I say this looks like the next 911, you seem to be saying it is the next front engined gt. 

I remember about 18 months before release of the 997 turbo,pics from the Nring were posted here.Yet some epxerts said it was not the turbo. 18 months later it was the turbo. Some people here may or may not have any inside info,  I COULD CARE LESS. I have none,i just use my eyes and common sense.

I can not remember porsche ever using a mule except for some ridiculous pic of some 928 with a big contraption on it from a couple years back. I highly doubt the car posted above has a V8 in front or that porsche is testing a front engined GT by running around with it in the ass.

If porsche is planning a new front engined gt, they should hold off, because the economic times do not bode well for pricey exotics. Good luck on selling 20K panamera.

STRADALE:

Atzporsche:

Guys RC is just like us, guessing... he could be wrong. Don't hold anyone accountable for speculating on here... we're all speculating putting in our thoughts to try to come to terms with the excitement that is a new Porsche in the coming! weather 991 or 928 who cares, i think we're all super excited. I've been looking closely at mules for years now and RC has been more right than wrong because he's got many sources, which is why i think his words count for a lot in these speculations. 

 I personally do not think this is the next 911 because the shape is different. Yes porsche could make a bold move with the 991 but i highly doubt it. The overhangs are just not 911... spin it however you will.. we don't even need to know where the engine in this mule is IMO.

I asked a couple of car enthusiasts at my work who know nothing about the camo/mule industry of prototypes and all 5 guys concluded it "kinda has bulky proportions unlike a 911" Now from the Panamera mules, we've learned that the bulky panels aren't all stuffed mules or camo... rather it is the real thing. So with that in mind, seeing these mules run around with their bulky low look and long rear overhand, not to mention the huge covered rear wing section... i conclude it should be something else than the next 911.

Keep us the good work guys... let's do this for months and months :)

--

2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd

997 Mules had the same "huge covered rear wing section”, matter of fact it may even be the same exact one, think I have a pic of it at my office. It has to look like that to give the motorized wing underneath room to go up & down. Which is just another reason it’s the next 911 if you look at that piece of camo it shows exactly the space needed for the rear wing to deploy.    

Dunno why some of you guys can’t see this being the next 911, it's certainly closer in shape to the 997 than the 996 was to the 997 & the whole roof is exactly 911, what are the chances of another model using the same roof line as the 911? I really can’t see how there would be a motor under the front bonnet so what's the chances of another model w/ the same roofline as the 911 w/ the engine in the rear? Even the bonnet, front bumper, rear quarter &  front fender are 911 only they are more flared out, which is exactly what people wanted & the direction the 911 was going.

I've seen all kinds of crazy camo but I just don’t buy the theory that Porsche is going to create a 911'ish one off body/roof just for a front engined test mule & put the engine in the rear of what will be a front engined car, just to fool people. What in the world would be the purpose of testing a mule in the first place if the engine isnt where it's supposed to be? There would be nothing to test in that case.

Everybody knows the next 911 shape isn’t going to be dramatically different. The roofline will be similar, the shape, the body panels will probably see some further molding i.e.) 996 vs. 997 so really the big changes will be in the front & the rear. And what do you know the parts that aren’t really camoed are the areas that probably won’t change dramatically while the areas (front/rear) that will see the most changes are covered up by huge amounts of camo on this test mule. Heck, even the timing for seeing the next 911 mules now makes sense..

ps: And I respectfully disagree - Engine location IS important, it's the biggest clue - Reason:  Porsche will not build another REAR engined sports car for MANY reasons.  Engine in the rear on the mule = next 911.

 

 

 

--

 

08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia

you just said it  exactly what i would like to say  but with better english!

its obvious its a little different from a 911,  because this one is the NEW ONE! 

sorry  but i cant see anything dfifferent  of this...  

IMHO.

I didn't read every post on here, but did anyone mention this could be a RUF car, and not the "next" Porsche? Just a thought...

xandi911:

STRADALE:

Atzporsche:

Guys RC is just like us, guessing... he could be wrong. Don't hold anyone accountable for speculating on here... we're all speculating putting in our thoughts to try to come to terms with the excitement that is a new Porsche in the coming! weather 991 or 928 who cares, i think we're all super excited. I've been looking closely at mules for years now and RC has been more right than wrong because he's got many sources, which is why i think his words count for a lot in these speculations. 

 I personally do not think this is the next 911 because the shape is different. Yes porsche could make a bold move with the 991 but i highly doubt it. The overhangs are just not 911... spin it however you will.. we don't even need to know where the engine in this mule is IMO.

I asked a couple of car enthusiasts at my work who know nothing about the camo/mule industry of prototypes and all 5 guys concluded it "kinda has bulky proportions unlike a 911" Now from the Panamera mules, we've learned that the bulky panels aren't all stuffed mules or camo... rather it is the real thing. So with that in mind, seeing these mules run around with their bulky low look and long rear overhand, not to mention the huge covered rear wing section... i conclude it should be something else than the next 911.

Keep us the good work guys... let's do this for months and months :)

--

2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd

997 Mules had the same "huge covered rear wing section”, matter of fact it may even be the same exact one, think I have a pic of it at my office. It has to look like that to give the motorized wing underneath room to go up & down. Which is just another reason it’s the next 911 if you look at that piece of camo it shows exactly the space needed for the rear wing to deploy.    

Dunno why some of you guys can’t see this being the next 911, it's certainly closer in shape to the 997 than the 996 was to the 997 & the whole roof is exactly 911, what are the chances of another model using the same roof line as the 911? I really can’t see how there would be a motor under the front bonnet so what's the chances of another model w/ the same roofline as the 911 w/ the engine in the rear? Even the bonnet, front bumper, rear quarter &  front fender are 911 only they are more flared out, which is exactly what people wanted & the direction the 911 was going.

I've seen all kinds of crazy camo but I just don’t buy the theory that Porsche is going to create a 911'ish one off body/roof just for a front engined test mule & put the engine in the rear of what will be a front engined car, just to fool people. What in the world would be the purpose of testing a mule in the first place if the engine isnt where it's supposed to be? There would be nothing to test in that case.

Everybody knows the next 911 shape isn’t going to be dramatically different. The roofline will be similar, the shape, the body panels will probably see some further molding i.e.) 996 vs. 997 so really the big changes will be in the front & the rear. And what do you know the parts that aren’t really camoed are the areas that probably won’t change dramatically while the areas (front/rear) that will see the most changes are covered up by huge amounts of camo on this test mule. Heck, even the timing for seeing the next 911 mules now makes sense..

ps: And I respectfully disagree - Engine location IS important, it's the biggest clue - Reason:  Porsche will not build another REAR engined sports car for MANY reasons.  Engine in the rear on the mule = next 911.

--

08 Porsche Turbo Cab/ 06 Ferrari 430 / 04 Durango Hemi /04 HD Screamin Eagle / 93 HD Nostalgia

you just said it  exactly what i would like to say  but with better english!

its obvious its a little different from a 911,  because this one is the NEW ONE! 

sorry  but i cant see anything dfifferent  of this...  

IMHO.

2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd

911 shapes look so much alike through various generations that PAG can afford to show a new body underneath a little cameo and no one but die hard fans even notice. It seems the car is a logical evolution of the 997 with a lower body and the new mirror position introduced with the Panamera.

why they wanna make us believe that this car is a turbo one(due fake air intakes) ???

to look like a 997TT MKII, and thats another reason that really makes me believe this is the NA 998(991 whatever)