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iia said:
If the Chevy V8 is only 5.0L, don't know what the power output curves will be even adding 2 extra cylinders to be equal.
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Justin said:Quote:
iia said:
If the Chevy V8 is only 5.0L, don't know what the power output curves will be even adding 2 extra cylinders to be equal.
Displacement doesn't really tell the entire story. Also look at weight and physical size. Then look at fuel efficiency.
I don't know the numbers of each of the engines we are talking about, but power/liter is a somewhat defective measure of an engine's efficiency when looked at alone.
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iia said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:Quote:
MAVERICK said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
The M5, 997TT and F430 have the same flaw, ridiculously complex engine systems for their output.
Jim,
What is your definition of "ridiculously complex engine system?"
The poster boy engine for the most hideously complex motor
is the V10 in the BMW M5.
Compare its torque and hp output curves to, and do I hate to say this, to that stroker small block Chevy V8 in the Z06. Look at the numbers.
If the Chevy V8 is only 5.0L, don't know what the power output curves will be even adding 2 extra cylinders to be equal.
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95jersey said:
I will agree with you in that the 911TT is a more complete car, nicer everyday, winter capable, reliable...all that you say. But, "to me", even if I had the cash, it's not worth double the price...maybe a $15,000 premium at best. For me the name commands no premium.
We're not talking about buying a versitile SUV or crossover, we're talking about amazing 450+hp supercars (911TT, Z06, F430)...what do I care if it drives in the snow.
I think this comes down to personallity. I am more of a sports car purest. I like them rough, rude, fast and on the edge...not watered down for total comfort. People that are into historic sports cars understand this...Ferrar GTO for example.
I guess in short, I am saying from my point of view...I have no need for my 500hp supercar to have these amenities...certainly NOT for double the price. Then were back where we started...only the very rich get to have all the fun.
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RonnieC6Z said:Quote:
iia said:
If the Chevy V8 is only 5.0L, don't know what the power output curves will be even adding 2 extra cylinders to be equal.
Looks like the Z06 has legs 
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SciFrog said:
That's why I like the idea of a Z06, as it will push the other supercar manufacturers to be even better.
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SciFrog said:
Worry might not be the right word, but I am sure they at least look at the Z06 performance, regardless of its price, and that somewhere without trying to beat it at all cost, they have to be close in performance.
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95jersey said:
So let's think about this without any emotion. And let's not go down the ricer mentality of HP per liter.
A motor is nothing more than an air pump. If you were CFO of a large company buying air pumps, and one was for sale that cost $30,000 and produced 500hp and the other cost $10,000 and produced the same HP...both came with the same or similar warranty, as well as life expectancies, and use the same amount of fuel. Which would you buy?
In the end, you wouldn't be talking about output per liter or effecient design? You would be laughing at the company that thought they could sell a $30k pump.
Also, the 427 is a small block, all aluminum motor with a plastic intake, all which weights the same as the C5Z06's 346 LS6 mostly becuase of it's use of exotic metals. Which in the end push a car lighter by almost 1000lbs. Who is more effecient?
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JimFlat6 said:Quote:
95jersey said:
So let's think about this without any emotion. And let's not go down the ricer mentality of HP per liter.
A motor is nothing more than an air pump. If you were CFO of a large company buying air pumps, and one was for sale that cost $30,000 and produced 500hp and the other cost $10,000 and produced the same HP...both came with the same or similar warranty, as well as life expectancies, and use the same amount of fuel. Which would you buy?
In the end, you wouldn't be talking about output per liter or effecient design? You would be laughing at the company that thought they could sell a $30k pump.
Also, the 427 is a small block, all aluminum motor with a plastic intake, all which weights the same as the C5Z06's 346 LS6 mostly becuase of it's use of exotic metals. Which in the end push a car lighter by almost 1000lbs. Who is more effecient?
Hate to burst your bubble but the 997TT is not 1000lbs heavier than a Z06.
As for the air pump technology analogy, you left out one key testing benchmark... that is how Quickly it will rev
to make the power?
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sdy284 said:Quote:
SciFrog said:
That's why I like the idea of a Z06, as it will push the other supercar manufacturers to be even better.
thats correct in theory, but the the other companies (Porsche, Ferrari, Aston, etc) don't view the Z as being in the same league as them, so they dont worry about it.
And when you think about it, any educated buyer who is looking for the most performance for his hard earned buck will choose the Z06. If raw, "on the edge" performance isn't as important as year round drivability as well as incredible all weather perfomance, then the 997TT will get the nod. The two cars are for 2 different types of buyers. Ferrari & Porsche know this and they are so concerned about thier own brand image & profits, that they could care less if Billy Joe Bob in his 'Vette is faster.
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SciFrog said:
Also you left out how much space they take. Don't think you could put a Z06 engine inside a 911 chassis.
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JimFlat6 said:
Im sure the BMW V10 has a pretty low friction coefficient for its reciprocating parts. The Z06 motor does also.
But I think that Corvete makes the same torque at 1900rpms as the BMW makes at 5400. The V10 is still a screamer engine
and will make its owner scream to the bank after its out of warranty.
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Walter said:Quote:
95jersey said:
Quote "European manufacturers build cars for the absolute worst cases.American manufacturers take short cuts.I don't think "GM wondered if anybody can drive a RWD 500hp car on a wet road...European manufacturers do care about that but they also wonder if the temperature remained constantly low in the cabine for 5 hours under the sun and if the drivers @ss(or any other body part) hurts after a 500km trip"
So if you got into a 360 Challenge Stradale and your @ss hurt after 500km, you would be disapointed?!?! I think European manufacturers are more pompous than anything. If American manufacturers take short cuts that give me 505HP motor in a race wining chassis for $65k...let me be the first to throw out the heated/cooling seats! A wet road? Wouldn't a Corvette, Ferrari or 911TT usually be a second car? Use the AWD SUV for the bad weather.
Is this a sports car forum or is this a hair saloon? Your talking about a 500hp supercar for $65, and your worried about cabin temps?
None of this is meant to be taken personally, this is just a good healthy debate.
"A wet road? Wouldn't a Corvette, Ferrari or 911TT usually be a second car? Use the AWD SUV for the bad weather."
The F430,997T,Gallardo,M5,...can be used anytime by anyone.This is possible for all of those cars because it has electronic devices which helps the (unexperienced)driver alot.The Turbo and Gallardo have AWD,the F430 has the Manettino(?spelling) which has a "snow" mode,the M5 can reduce it's power to 400hp.
The M5 and F430 also have the sequential gear box which gives the pssibility to unexperienced drivers to have fun on the track.Some people that go on the track for the first don't have fun because they don't know how to heel-and-toe(which isn't a super-dupa-mega-ultra racing driver technique).If you don't use the heel-and-toe technique in a RWD car and downshift the normal way,it can be a problem for the clutch and if you do downshift too fast the rear wheels can lock and than oversteer,too much countersteer,..out.
You probably noticed that the RWD cars I mentioned above have this type of gear box.But it isn't only for the race track because it also works as a normal automatic gear box.
The Z06 has some electronic devices too but I've read in many reviews that the rear end was a bit unstable if you're not careful enough with the throttle.That probably isn't a big problem on the track but on a public road this might be dangerous.
In our everyday life more and more things are becoming more and more versatile.Your cell phone isn't just for phoning,your fridge also works as a ice cube distributor,your computer isn't just for the work,...cars aren't the exception.If you want to drive fast but you took the SUV instead of the Corvette,you might feel frustrated.If you have an M5,you just need to push a button(well,many buttons).
If you need a SUV for rainy or snowy conditions,the financial advantge of the Corvette doesn't exist anymore.Think of insurances and taxes...and you need a bigger garage.
"Your talking about a 500hp supercar for $65, and your worried about cabin temps?"
Exaclty!
500hp is a lot for me.Many scientific researches have proven that the temperature in the cabin has a big influence on the concertration of the driver.I think I would need a lot of attention with 500hp even on a dry road.Peugeot equipped their WRC with an AC.The drivers said it was very useful.
The quality of the heater is also important.I once sat in a car that had an AC.The cabin was cold but I still was sweating.That's uncomfortable(I'm not saying it's the case in a corvette).If you do a big trip and you feel uncomfortable in the car you're are not going to fully concertrate on driving and have fun driving around.
The Audi TT and the Mercedes A-class are perfect examples for what happens if engineers don't of any type of situation on the road.No-one will do heavy slaloms with the A-class and who would have thought the Audi oversteers at 200km/h?
I've read an article about the development of the Aston Martin V8.The engineers were testing the stability program by making zig-zags on snowy raods...at 180km/h.
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Ziggy said:Quote:
95jersey said:
the car does come with AC, beleive it or not, we do have that technology in the US.
Sorry to say that 95 Jersey, but it is a poor answer to a remarquable post.
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The Groom said:
Don't worry, American manufacturers should be able to get close to the technological level of a 1955 Citroen DS in 10 years or so.
For the record, Louis Chevrolet was actually Swiss, not French.
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RonnieC6Z said:Quote:
sdy284 said:Quote:
SciFrog said:
That's why I like the idea of a Z06, as it will push the other supercar manufacturers to be even better.
thats correct in theory, but the the other companies (Porsche, Ferrari, Aston, etc) don't view the Z as being in the same league as them, so they dont worry about it.
And when you think about it, any educated buyer who is looking for the most performance for his hard earned buck will choose the Z06. If raw, "on the edge" performance isn't as important as year round drivability as well as incredible all weather perfomance, then the 997TT will get the nod. The two cars are for 2 different types of buyers. Ferrari & Porsche know this and they are so concerned about thier own brand image & profits, that they could care less if Billy Joe Bob in his 'Vette is faster.
Nice remarks about "educated buyers" and "Billy Joe Bob". I could ask you what you are inferring, but I think it is obvious. First of all, how you put Porsche in the same catagory as Ferrari is beyond me. Secondly, maybe you think that the people at Porsche don't care about the performance of the Z06, well think again! Furthermore, those who care the most about what the Z can do vs the P-Car when it comes to performance are most folks on this forum!
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Crash said:Quote:
RonnieC6Z said:Quote:
sdy284 said:Quote:
SciFrog said:
That's why I like the idea of a Z06, as it will push the other supercar manufacturers to be even better.
thats correct in theory, but the the other companies (Porsche, Ferrari, Aston, etc) don't view the Z as being in the same league as them, so they dont worry about it.
And when you think about it, any educated buyer who is looking for the most performance for his hard earned buck will choose the Z06. If raw, "on the edge" performance isn't as important as year round drivability as well as incredible all weather perfomance, then the 997TT will get the nod. The two cars are for 2 different types of buyers. Ferrari & Porsche know this and they are so concerned about thier own brand image & profits, that they could care less if Billy Joe Bob in his 'Vette is faster.
Nice remarks about "educated buyers" and "Billy Joe Bob". I could ask you what you are inferring, but I think it is obvious. First of all, how you put Porsche in the same catagory as Ferrari is beyond me. Secondly, maybe you think that the people at Porsche don't care about the performance of the Z06, well think again! Furthermore, those who care the most about what the Z can do vs the P-Car when it comes to performance are most folks on this forum!
The world isn't California. Porsches and Ferraris are comparable in Europe, by both price and prestige. I'm pretty sure Porsche is taking interest in the Corvette performance, but to think that they are worried would be wishful thinking. They have enough reserves in their engines to make 700 horsepower, anyway.
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JimFlat6 said:Quote:
Ziggy said:Quote:
95jersey said:
the car does come with AC, beleive it or not, we do have that technology in the US.
Sorry to say that 95 Jersey, but it is a poor answer to a remarquable post.
I didnt think so. Walter seemed pained to equate Corvette cabin temperature with driver attention or lack thereof
in a attempt at keyboard drama review. He failed.
I suggest before hurling praise or grenades at any of these cars that you actually drive one first.
As for France and Corvettes, is it not enough goodwill
for GM to have a brand with a French name? And even more, for that brand to have a model with a French name also?
We await the return of Citroen to America. A boatload
of Meharis would be fun.
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