Ferdie:

Upsa:

Could someone please photoshop or post a pic of a black one? TIA 

Had some time on my hands tonight:

Sold! 

I"m kind of torn.  The appearance doesn't shout at me that I absolutely need to have this car.  The back is kind of weird, with the combination of the extra width, and the squareness of it.  The side oval vent looks like it could use a horizontal slit, to match the rear side vents and the front vents.  But, ... maybe over time, I'll grow to love it......

Do we know what the rear exhaust tips look like for the base turbo?

Is there a manual transmission option?

--

2005 997S Blk/Blk

KresoF1:

artur777:

KresoF1, what are your impressions on acceleration figures?

 

I am very pleased with new Turbo. New Turbo S will be ny next sportcar.
Btw, are some people here serious about price comparison?
MP4-12C with same options as 991 Turbo S would cost 70K Euroore I'm Germany!

Also old R8 V10 + is no comparison IMO since it is slower on the Ring then 991 CS.

I think people are making the price comparison to what's available at that price in general. If you're open to slightly used cars, that's not the case. You can get a barely used 12C for the same price, if not less. I guess there might be a difference between US/EU market prices at the moment though.

Not that the V10+ is as fast as the new 991TT, but wasn't the recent V10+ ring time done in really cold weather? I saw the HvS video and there was still snow on the ground.

The NBR temperature was 3-4 C during the test.

BTW, Porsche haven't managed to reduce the weight of the new Turbo, contrary to the 981 and 991 models. Is this due to the further widening of the rear body?

--

"Form follows function"

Widening the body, rear steering, PDCC... All adds up to the weight

I love the Turbo S. BUT it is way too expensive for me :( it will probably be $260KCAD here + 15% tax = $600k to take out of the business.... Yuuck :(  waiting for the new S-class plug-in hybrid unveiling.

But coming back to 991TTs - wow! The car looks perfect! If I was younger, richer and lived next to an autobahn - game on!!

2012 Cayenne TT, looking for a nice 4-seater sports car to answer my call :)

SoCal Alan:

I"m kind of torn.  The appearance doesn't shout at me that I absolutely need to have this car.  The back is kind of weird, with the combination of the extra width, and the squareness of it.  The side oval vent looks like it could use a horizontal slit, to match the rear side vents and the front vents.  But, ... maybe over time, I'll grow to love it......

Do we know what the rear exhaust tips look like for the base turbo?

Is there a manual transmission option?

--

2005 997S Blk/Blk

No need for option. You can use the paddles to change gear manually if you want manual and switch it over to auto if you want the car to change gear for you. Best of both world. 

Typical Turbo porn but I have a problem with the extra width, it does give a great stance on the road but could be troublesome on the backroads. One of the main reasons I love my 997 is its relative small dimensions, so easy to place on the road. That used to be a typical 911 quality, until the 991 range.

Interested to see a 964 parked next to it, the poor thing would be dwarfed.

reginos:

The NBR temperature was 3-4 C during the test.

BTW, Porsche haven't managed to reduce the weight of the new Turbo, contrary to the 981 and 991 models. Is this due to the further widening of the rear body?

--

"Form follows function"

At some point, raising the power becomes a problem. Do you really think that the 2020 generation Turbo will have 700 hp? I rather think that weight lowering will be the "new" major improvement in performance over the next decade, so why should they lower weight (and increase production cost) as long as they can adjust performance through power upgrades? The moment power upgrades become a problem (environmental laws, fleet consumption regulations, etc.) because of fuel efficiency and emissions, weight reduction will be the way to achieve a better performance but at the same time reduce fuel consumption and emissions.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Lukas:

 

The mirrors is just an option and could be had on the turbo as well. Sport mirrors for 500EUR.

You are right. Unfortunately.

I did some calculations and the extra 40 horses for the Turbo S actually cost around 12k EUR, which isn't too much considering the performance gain.

Still, although both, the Turbo and Turbo S, have better standard options than their 997 counterparts, these cars became quite expensive.

With the options I want, the 991 Turbo would cost me around 180k EUR, the Turbo S around 202k EUR.

The performance difference between both isn't huge (0.5 seconds from 0-200 kph with Sport Plus) but if someone pays 180k for a Turbo, he probably can afford to pay 200k too.

I just looked up the prices of the "old" 997 Turbo and Turbo S and I actually had a shock: The new 991 Turbo S is 22k EUR more expensive than the old one, the new 991 Turbo more than 12k EUR. I think Porsche kind of lost the sense for reality here. This means that the new 991 Turbo S is aprox. 13% (if I did the math right) more expensive than the "old" 997 Turbo S. 13% is just outrageous in my opinion. I get it, Porsche claims that they built the new 991 Turbo S new from the ground up but a 13% price hike? Really?

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

12.000 EUR for 40PS is just "normal" for Porsche, judging from what they have been charging for the Carrera Powerkits over the years. However, I believe the engine and ancillaries must be reworked not just  ECU programing. See how extensively reworked are the PK engines even allowing for the fact  that they are atmospheric as opposed to turbocharged.

Two more points: 

Now that the S is available as an additional model, buyers wouldn't be satisfied with the base Turbo and they would stretch to the S. Similar to the rest of the sportscar range. This equals more money for the company.

in the past the Turbo S models were end of the line specials, and therefore great value similar to the GTS. Porsche seem to wish to exploit the S and GTS segments by making them standard models and thus skimming the cream.

"Form follows function"

What about the exhaust note this time ? Any sport exhaust available ?

I forgot to mention: With the new 991 Turbo and Turbo S showing up, the prices for used 997 Turbo/S will surely take a hit, even if not a big one (considering the not so huge performance differences and the much higher prices for the new 991 models).

So maybe a used 997 Turbo S would be the better deal. I am seriously thinking about it. There are already some interesting cars available around 120k EUR, including some Cabs, so why not? Yes, the new 991 Turbo S is much faster around the track but the real world performance difference should be minimal, especially when driving on public roads, including the Autobahn. Cars offered by official Porsche dealerships also have a warranty, which can be even renewed after each year. I am seriously considering that as an alternative option.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

BangoO:

What about the exhaust note this time ? Any sport exhaust available ?

Nothing mentioned. Those inside will get the turbo induction sound through the symposer. 

"Form follows function"

reginos:

12.000 EUR for 40PS is just "normal" for Porsche, judging from what they have been charging for the Carrera Powerkits over the years. However, I believe the engine and ancillaries must be reworked not just  ECU programing. See how extensively reworked are the PK engines even allowing for the fact  that they are atmospheric as opposed to turbocharged.

Two more points: 

Now that the S is available as an additional model, buyers wouldn't be satisfied with the base Turbo and they would stretch to the S. Similar to the rest of the sportscar range. This equals more money for the company.

in the past the Turbo S models were end of the line specials, and therefore great value similar to the GTS. Porsche seem to wish to exploit the S and GTS segments by making them standard models and thus skimming the cream.

Don't be so sure about this. The price tag of the new 991 Turbo S is quite the shocker.

Right now I'm waiting for the dealer's offer on Monday but I am considering three other options too:

1. 991 Turbo: If the difference is software only...well...I know people...

2. 991 GT3: The best bang for the buck so far but no AWD and more importantly, no back seats (my wife would be OK with that but not very happy about it)

3. 997 Turbo S Coupe or Cab: Amazing offers available (between 115 and 125k EUR with under 30k km), fully loaded cars with new price tags beyond 185 or even 195k EUR and warranty but old is old... . Still...70-80k less...I can't ignore that.

Let's see the dealer's offer this Monday, I am quite curious.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

2 fast questions:

1- the 997.2 TT and 997.2TTS had mechanical diff or not? i bet yes cause all 997.2TTS after mods was always faster than modded 997.2TT

2- how much was the last 997.2TT and how much is the 991TT in germany?

thanks.

1. Not sure what you mean: As far as I remember, only the manual equipped pre-facelift 997 Turbo (there was no Turbo S) had a mechanical diff.. The mechanical diff. was part of the PTV package on the facelift 997 Turbo and Turbo S. Maybe I didn't understand your question?!

2. The "old" 997 Turbo S was 173.241,00 EUR (incl. 19% VAT) in Germany, the new 991 Turbo S is 195.256,00 EUR (incl. 19% VAT).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

"The new Porsche 911 Turbo: A Benchmark in Motion..."

The new Porsche 911 Turbo: A Benchmark in Motion -- Video Link

"The new Porsche 911 Turbo: First Look..."

The new Porsche 911 Turbo: First Look -- Video Link

Something's just off.

Hope GT2 looks better than this.

RC:

reginos:

The NBR temperature was 3-4 C during the test.

BTW, Porsche haven't managed to reduce the weight of the new Turbo, contrary to the 981 and 991 models. Is this due to the further widening of the rear body?

--

"Form follows function"

At some point, raising the power becomes a problem. Do you really think that the 2020 generation Turbo will have 700 hp? I rather think that weight lowering will be the "new" major improvement in performance over the next decade, so why should they lower weight (and increase production cost) as long as they can adjust performance through power upgrades? The moment power upgrades become a problem (environmental laws, fleet consumption regulations, etc.) because of fuel efficiency and emissions, weight reduction will be the way to achieve a better performance but at the same time reduce fuel consumption and emissions.

 

Christian, due to your words 991 Turbo should be more powerful or lighter than previous model! We don't see it! +20 hp only but the weight is also higher! Why?

Jean:

Something's just off.

Hope GT2 looks better than this.

And hopefully, the 991 GT2 is much lighter.

I just compared: the 991 turbo S is more than 200kg heavier than the 997 GT2RS. And it has 60 hp less. Not really an alternative, I would say. The 991 GT2 should be a great car - at least the 991GT3 suggests that 

MKSGR:

Jean:

Something's just off.

Hope GT2 looks better than this.

And hopefully, the 991 GT2 is much lighter.

I just compared: the 991 turbo S is more than 200kg heavier than the 997 GT2RS. And it has 60 hp less. Not really an alternative, I would say. The 991 GT2 should be a great car - at least the 991GT3 suggests that 

 

I agree 991 turbo is way too heavy.,. unfortunately

It looks a bit better now on real world 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1fbDFY8P_E

artur777:

MKSGR:

Jean:

Something's just off.

Hope GT2 looks better than this.

And hopefully, the 991 GT2 is much lighter.

I just compared: the 991 turbo S is more than 200kg heavier than the 997 GT2RS. And it has 60 hp less. Not really an alternative, I would say. The 991 GT2 should be a great car - at least the 991GT3 suggests that 

 

I agree 991 turbo is way too heavy.,. unfortunately

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Regarding design on the new 991 Turbo & Turbo S, have a close look at the now disfigured tachometer, then compare it with those of the Panamera and Cayenne turbos.  Repeat the same exercise regarding the tail pipes of the 991 Turbo & Turbo S vs those of Panamera and Cayenne Turbo.

What can you spot?

This is where Porsche is now getting its inspiration for the sports cars.  What do they think they are doing?  Do they need to remind us, on sport cars, of the fact that they now mainly sell Cayennes and Pananeras?  What do they think they are doing in recycling the tachometer from the Cayenne and Pananera?  On a 911 Turbo!

Also, everybody noticed that the rising center console on the 991/981 was picked up from the Panamera (probably tons of ink in the press was wasted on the laudation of this center console).  What about the useless, disgraceful and ostentatious “Porsche” inscription added to the model designation at the tail of the 991/981?  Same thing.  Go and check for yourself if you do not believe me.  How can Porsche, including their head of design, say that a 911 always looks like a 911 (50 years now), but feel the need to add “Porsche” at the tail?  Is the make of a 911 not obvious?  I can understand that Porsche felt a little unsecure when the Panamera was released to a point of adding the name of the make at the tail of the cars, borrowing from the image of the sports cars at the same time (it is free, available, and cannot hurt, right?) ...  but on a 911!

I find this kind of homogenization of the sports cars design with that of the Cayenne and Panamera outrageous, really demeaning for the sports cars.

It is sad enough to see that Porsche is now selling fewer sports cars than it used to do in the 1980’s – 1990’s (check the sale volumes, not just the proportion of the sports cars vs the others), to have become the manufacturer of Cayennes and Panameras predominantly.  The fact that our favorite brand is now moving one step further and dares to align the design of the 991/981 to that of the best sellers is really adding insult to injury.

I have the sad premonition that Porsche is on its way to kill its sport cars segment.

It has no excuses for the declining sale volumes of its sport cars.  The market on this segment is not declining.  Check the progression of sale volumes of Ferrari during the last two decades and then compare it to the sale volumes of 911 over the same period.  Want to double-check?  Add Lamborghini in the equation.   And there are new entrants (McLaren for example).

May be Porsche has ventured a little too far selling underpowered and overpriced sports cars.

That they announced their return to Le Mans shows that they understood it was about time to get back to work … as all Porsche customers know that there is no free lunch with them.

What do you think?

991 Turbo in Russia

The pic from the event. Notice: World Premiere 911 Turbo on the background. I didn't know that world premiere of the Turbo will be in Moscow

If I remember correctly, the previous Turbo also made his debut in Moscow

Do you know how the front spoiler extends? I've read it is made of rubber and a pneumatic pump is used to inflate it 

"Form follows function"

pjd:

It looks a bit better now on real world 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1fbDFY8P_E

The small rear lights make the back look too heavy  Might look better in darker colors. In this video the car looks more like a Panamera than like a 911 - a big, heavy car.