Crown

Some more new mule pictures here:

http://www.autozeitung.de/auto-neuheiten/porsche-911-gt2-rs-2016-preis-technische-daten

Oh man that is looking hot! This thing will be amazing 

1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

Atzporsche:

Oh man that is looking hot! This thing will be amazing 

And amazingly expensive...   True beast though, indeed.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

Atzporsche:

Oh man that is looking hot! This thing will be amazing 

And amazingly expensive...   True beast though, indeed.

how much??:::)))

pmarkow:

RC:

Atzporsche:

Oh man that is looking hot! This thing will be amazing 

And amazingly expensive...   True beast though, indeed.

how much??:::)))

Last rumor I heard was 270k...without any options but another source indicated "close to 300k", so... 

Also, no limitation by a fixed number but production capacity will be limited.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

and latest performance data...? 

Boyko23:

and latest performance data...? 

Car will be very fast, even on the Autobahn. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

Boyko23:

and latest performance data...? 

Car will be very fast, even on the Autobahn. 

Under 7 minutes Ring?

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

RC:

Boyko23:

and latest performance data...? 

Car will be very fast, even on the Autobahn. 

Under 7 minutes Ring?

I have no track times, not even rumors...sorry.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

thanks RC. 300K euro in D makes 400K euro in A with the taxes. i'd rather go for the 488 speciale.

RC, GT2 RS, right? Any idea about presentation and first model delivery dates?

Vielen Dank!

991 GT3 RS, Cayman GT4 / Gone: 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8, 997.2 GT3, Lotus Exige S, 964 Turbo 3.3

GoHardGT3RS:

RC, GT2 RS, right? Any idea about presentation and first model delivery dates?

Vielen Dank!

Yes, GT2 RS. Introduction is planned for next year...don't have any details though. 991.2 GT3 comes first as far as I heard.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

i hear production window for GT2RS starts in oct 2017, planned for one year, no limitation by numbers just by production time frame (similar for GT3RS).

peter

I wonder if 991.2 GT3 will be marketed as the "drivers car" rather than focussing on headline performance and lap time figures. That leaves the turbocharged GT2 RS to leap above the normally aspirated GT3 RS as the track focused car to take the battle to 675LT and forthcoming 488 Speciale. It makes sense to me, perhaps it's why so many 991.1 GT3 RS have been produce (relative to 997) and why there is no definitive view on whether a 991.2 GT3 RS will appear.

--

997.2 GT3 RS (White/Red), 981 GT4 (White), Macan GTS (Carmine)

ShaunRS:

I wonder if 991.2 GT3 will be marketed as the "drivers car" rather than focussing on headline performance and lap time figures. That leaves the turbocharged GT2 RS to leap above the normally aspirated GT3 RS as the track focused car to take the battle to 675LT and forthcoming 488 Speciale. It makes sense to me, perhaps it's why so many 991.1 GT3 RS have been produce (relative to 997) and why there is no definitive view on whether a 991.2 GT3 RS will appear.

There is a huge (product) gap between the 991 Turbo S and the 918 (which isn't even available anymore).

Porsche has no direct 675LT competitor, actually they don't even have a 650S or 570S  competitor when it comes to naked performance numbers. Then, take the 488...over 180-190 kph, the 991 Turbo S can't follow the 488 anymore. 

I think that the 991 GT2 RS is the easiest way for Porsche to offer a car in that category without pissing off 991 Turbo S customers. I also think that the 991 Turbo S has reached a price level where they cannot ask much more for the car with the current performance level.

A "960" is really missing from Porsche's portfolio and I said it before, I don't have the slightest clue why Audi has the R8 but Porsche has...nothing.  Maybe the VW Group thinks that another mid engined super sports car in the brands family could put all three brands (Audi, Lamborghini and then Porsche) under huge pressure and in the end, everyone will loose. Possible. I still think however that the R8 makes more sense with Porsche than with Audi. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Your right, I hadn't seen that "gap", but it's huge and surely needs to be addressed.

My hope for GT2 RS is that it's the homologation car for 2017 RSR and goes on to become what the GT3 RS has been for some time. I reckon it would be a monster on track, just really hope I can get one and hearing that it might not be limited by number, rather by production capacity I feel it gives me a better chance.

997.2 GT3 RS (White/Red), 981 GT4 (White), Macan GTS (Carmine)

RC:

ShaunRS:

I wonder if 991.2 GT3 will be marketed as the "drivers car" rather than focussing on headline performance and lap time figures. That leaves the turbocharged GT2 RS to leap above the normally aspirated GT3 RS as the track focused car to take the battle to 675LT and forthcoming 488 Speciale. It makes sense to me, perhaps it's why so many 991.1 GT3 RS have been produce (relative to 997) and why there is no definitive view on whether a 991.2 GT3 RS will appear.

There is a huge (product) gap between the 991 Turbo S and the 918 (which isn't even available anymore).

Porsche has no direct 675LT competitor, actually they don't even have a 650S or 570S  competitor when it comes to naked performance numbers. Then, take the 488...over 180-190 kph, the 991 Turbo S can't follow the 488 anymore. 

I think that the 991 GT2 RS is the easiest way for Porsche to offer a car in that category without pissing off 991 Turbo S customers. I also think that the 991 Turbo S has reached a price level where they cannot ask much more for the car with the current performance level.

A "960" is really missing from Porsche's portfolio and I said it before, I don't have the slightest clue why Audi has the R8 but Porsche has...nothing.  Maybe the VW Group thinks that another mid engined super sports car in the brands family could put all three brands (Audi, Lamborghini and then Porsche) under huge pressure and in the end, everyone will loose. Possible. I still think however that the R8 makes more sense with Porsche than with Audi. 

I would not be so negative on the turbo s... Track-performance (even on street tires) is on par with the McLaren's (650s/570s). Above 200kph the McLaren 650s should be quicker by 2, 3, 4 seconds and also the 488GTB (assuming that customer cars deliver the same performance as the press cars, the key work here is "rev limit"...). But that is not so much. In contrast, the turbo s should be quicker in most daily situations and, frankly, I would also bet on the turbo S in a track day situation  Also, the turbo s is a nearly perfect car, ideal for every day and also a "blue chip" compared to a 570s, for example, a car that exists for some months, will get replace rather soon (if I am not wrong) and that is also the low-end car in McLaren's product range. I would never get one of these  And would you like to own a 650s after the successor will be shown next year? Who will buy it - my gut feeling still tells me that the market for used McLarens should be rather difficult in the future.

But then I also agree: we need more hp in the turbo s (to make it as quick as the other mentioned cars also above 200kph). And the turbo s pricing is ridiculous. The 488 GTB is cheaper, has 670hp, has a much better warranty etc. Today, the Ferrari is the clever choice economically speaking. The turbo s can only be bought despite its price. This is a problem.

Markus, I wasn't talking about track performance but performance. From 0-300 kph, even the 570S seems to be much faster than the Turbo S.

Also, quite frankly, I got bored with the typical 911 interior which has improved over time but is kind of lost, design and technology wise, in the last decade. 

In Germany, the 991.2 Turbo S is in the same price category with the Huracan and 488, so I would expect at least some goodies but especially superior performance. Ferrari gave the 488 a power of 670 hp, this is 100 hp more than it's predecessor. Porsche? The 997 Turbo S had 530 hp, the next generation 30 hp more. Ridiculous. With 100 hp more, the 991 Turbo S would have destroyed the competition. Also, the interior looks outdated, at least they could have introduced some new technology but a 991 Turbo S interior looks almost like a Boxster S interior (had a Boxster S and felt always annoyed by the similar interiors).

The 570S is even cheaper than the 991 Turbo S, there are good lease offers now and McLaren seems to strongly advertise this car. Yes, this is probably a crappy daily driver and in winter time, you probably just look at it but as a weekend toy car, it is perfect and cheaper than the Turbo S.

I still love the Turbo S but the (lack of) sound (exhaust/engine) put me off completely. Add the boring interior and the performance (only at par with competition or worse) to that mix and no thanks. Track performance? Indeed, very nice track car but let's be honest here: When have you been to the track lately...or me for that matter?!

You chose the 991.2 Turbo S cab, which makes much more sense than the coupe but in my opinion, the current engine is done, the sound is boring and the interior feels outdated. Still a great car but if I had the choice, not considering money or my social environment, I would have chosen a Lamborghini Aventador SV or McLaren 675LT. Actually, because of the sound, I think it would have been the Aventador SV.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

The 570S is even cheaper than the 991 Turbo S, there are good lease offers now and McLaren seems to strongly advertise this car. Yes, this is probably a crappy daily driver and in winter time, you probably just look at it but as a weekend toy car, it is perfect and cheaper than the Turbo S.

I still love the Turbo S but the (lack of) sound (exhaust/engine) put me off completely. Add the boring interior and the performance (only at par with competition or worse) to that mix and no thanks. Track performance? Indeed, very nice track car but let's be honest here: When have you been to the track lately...or me for that matter?!

You chose the 991.2 Turbo S cab, which makes much more sense than the coupe but in my opinion, the current engine is done, the sound is boring and the interior feels outdated. Still a great car but if I had the choice, not considering money or my social environment, I would have chosen a Lamborghini Aventador SV or McLaren 675LT. Actually, because of the sound, I think it would have been the Aventador SV.

You still seem to believe in the test results of the 570s "ringer" car in the AutoBild test  No way  In my personal opinion the 570s also looks quite girlish with its rather "soft" design, the rear in particular. Also, it is the lowest you can get within McLaren's model range, no thanks for me... The 675LT would be my choice based on design. But then the car is also quite flashy and the track performance raises questions (looking at the SportAuto tests, for example). Not sure this car is without problems. If you think long enough, only cars like the LaFerrari are really beyond all doubt. Not that they are perfect. But whenever there is an imperfection you can still be happy that you own one of these long-term jewels. These cars will always be very desirable. Right now, I have no real desire between a turbo s and the La Ferrari, the longer I think about it. Might sound strange though.

BTW, I like the sound of the turbo s cabrio I have to say. Very taken aback in normal mode, inner city situations. But quite strong in sport mode. I see why Porsche does the sound like they did: for a stealth car like the turbo s is just perfect and yet you can have some nice sound experience when you switch to sport. Maybe the coupe is worse? 

Interior (as well as exterior) design is always a matter of taste, of course 

I agree.The 570s is feminine. The rear is not aggressive enough. 675LT would be my choice.

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

I'm afraid the 570S performance is quite real, the McLaren power claim probably not that much.

I just got bored of the 911 but not because it is a bad car, not at all. I just think that Porsche should have introduced a new interior earlier (the 991 Turbo S would have been a nice way to do that, especially since this car had a substantial price increase at that time if you remember) and the engine of the 991.1 and 991.2 Turbo S is basically at it's lifecycle end, so...  Stealth sports car? Indeed, especially in dark colors but let's be real here: As a daily driver, a stealth appearance can be very valuable but for a weekend toy car, this is not what I want. I suppose your car is your daily driver, so you have a good reason for enjoying it. The sound is better in the cab, indeed but still not even close to a Huracan, R8 or even a McLaren (which is turbo charged as well). 

The 991 GT2 RS would probably have been the right car for me...with AWD. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

I'm afraid the 570S performance is quite real, the McLaren power claim probably not that much.

 

Don't believe so - this would make the cars illegal to use in Germany (not sure about other countries)... 

RC:

As a daily driver, a stealth appearance can be very valuable but for a weekend toy car, this is not what I want. I suppose your car is your daily driver, so you have a good reason for enjoying it. The sound is better in the cab, indeed but still not even close to a Huracan, R8 or even a McLaren (which is turbo charged as well). 

The trick might be the cabriolet indeed: I enjoy driving slower (during the week and on weekends ) with the top down. Very nice and fun. The problem with modern production cars is they cannot be enjoyed driven fast on public roads anyhow (as they are too quick). So the convertible helps a lot. And then the turbo s is exciting enough (for me at least) 

MKSGR:

RC:

I'm afraid the 570S performance is quite real, the McLaren power claim probably not that much.

 

Don't believe so - this would make the cars illegal to use in Germany (not sure about other countries)... 

Well, not necessarily. I guess you already learned what is possible with software, so... Yes, those dyno testing "detecting" software routines are very real, not only on Diesel cars. 

I didn't have a 570S encounter myself (yet) but I know two guys who had and they say the 570S is insanely fast for that "low" power claim.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

MKSGR:

RC:

As a daily driver, a stealth appearance can be very valuable but for a weekend toy car, this is not what I want. I suppose your car is your daily driver, so you have a good reason for enjoying it. The sound is better in the cab, indeed but still not even close to a Huracan, R8 or even a McLaren (which is turbo charged as well). 

The trick might be the cabriolet indeed: I enjoy driving slower (during the week and on weekends ) with the top down. Very nice and fun. The problem with modern production cars is they cannot be enjoyed driven fast on public roads anyhow (as they are too quick). So the convertible helps a lot. And then the turbo s is exciting enough (for me at least) 

Right on! 

As much as I loved the GT3, I missed the open top driving especially here in southern California. I never drive my Targa with the top up. What I love about it is you're not totally exposed to the outside yet you have the open top feel. Also, with sport exhaust and in manual the sound is very passable and worthy of a sport car.

A final point. What I loved about my 997 TT Cab was when floored the throttle the sound of the engine and turbo's are phenomenal. The whoosh sound was quite distinctive and loud. I had a guy in a Corvette pull alongside of me just to tell me how great the engine sounded.

To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.

nberry:

MKSGR:

RC:

As a daily driver, a stealth appearance can be very valuable but for a weekend toy car, this is not what I want. I suppose your car is your daily driver, so you have a good reason for enjoying it. The sound is better in the cab, indeed but still not even close to a Huracan, R8 or even a McLaren (which is turbo charged as well). 

The trick might be the cabriolet indeed: I enjoy driving slower (during the week and on weekends ) with the top down. Very nice and fun. The problem with modern production cars is they cannot be enjoyed driven fast on public roads anyhow (as they are too quick). So the convertible helps a lot. And then the turbo s is exciting enough (for me at least) 

Right on! 

As much as I loved the GT3, I missed the open top driving especially here in southern California. I never drive my Targa with the top up. What I love about it is you're not totally exposed to the outside yet you have the open top feel. Also, with sport exhaust and in manual the sound is very passable and worthy of a sport car.

A final point. What I loved about my 997 TT Cab was when floored the throttle the sound of the engine and turbo's are phenomenal. The whoosh sound was quite distinctive and loud. I had a guy in a Corvette pull alongside of me just to tell me how great the engine sounded.

Driving these cars with the top open changes every ride (in adequate weather conditions) into something special. You enjoy the machine without the need to speed all the time 

My 991.1 C4 GTS Cab is sometimes way too loud when I rev above 4000 rpm but I enjoy every bit of it.

I'm so glad I chose the cabriolet, especially with the R8 being a coupe. Both cars complete each other in a perfect way, only cars missing are a GT3 RS and an Aventador SV.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

My 991.1 C4 GTS Cab is sometimes way too loud when I rev above 4000 rpm but I enjoy every bit of it.

I'm so glad I chose the cabriolet, especially with the R8 being a coupe. Both cars complete each other in a perfect way, only cars missing are a GT3 RS and an Aventador SV.  

You know, the problem with a GT3RS (as with a GT2RS) is that you can enjoy them mostly on the Autobahn (at high speeds), on the track (very much so) and maybe (but very rarely) on country roads if they are tight enough and you can push without getting too fast. In most other situations these cars are less fun than (let's say) a turbo s cabriolet. Then one has to consider that the turbo s is as much fun as a GT2RS on the Autobahn (and more fun there than a GT3RS). In summary, one could get a GT3RS (or the next GT2RS) in addition to a turbo s but the benefits are not so big - if you don't track the car often. The older I get the more I like the idea of testing more the Porsches and Ferraris of the past... They complement the modern "perfect" sportscars best, maybe 

well, i enjoy the GT3RS very much even on (bad) mountain roads at low speeds. the turbo S gave me no pleasure at all in test drives and the turbo S cabrio is so ugly it makes the birds cringe at it when one drives by:::))). there is no substitute for the GT3RS sound experience and its 'directness'. all this works perfectly even on normal roads at semi legal speeds.:::)) i am still not at ease with the 911-type looks of my RS but once i am in and driving it i even forgive and forget the (lack of) esthetics.

it will be a hard decision between the 488 speciale and the GT2RS, but i feel i need to return to maranello:::))) not because i have technical issues with the RS but simply because i miss the super car excitement and buzz every time i get in the car.

MKSGR:

RC:

My 991.1 C4 GTS Cab is sometimes way too loud when I rev above 4000 rpm but I enjoy every bit of it.

I'm so glad I chose the cabriolet, especially with the R8 being a coupe. Both cars complete each other in a perfect way, only cars missing are a GT3 RS and an Aventador SV.  

You know, the problem with a GT3RS (as with a GT2RS) is that you can enjoy them mostly on the Autobahn (at high speeds), on the track (very much so) and maybe (but very rarely) on country roads if they are tight enough and you can push without getting too fast. In most other situations these cars are less fun than (let's say) a turbo s cabriolet. Then one has to consider that the turbo s is as much fun as a GT2RS on the Autobahn (and more fun there than a GT3RS). In summary, one could get a GT3RS (or the next GT2RS) in addition to a turbo s but the benefits are not so big - if you don't track the car often. The older I get the more I like the idea of testing more the Porsches and Ferraris of the past... They complement the modern "perfect" sportscars best, maybe 

   
I currently only have an old one, so I now need to go back the other way again. Maybe I really should aspire to a GT4.

fritz