Apr 10, 2008 5:24:59 PM
- yellow997s
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
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Apr 11, 2008 2:09:25 AM
- Leawood911
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Apr 11, 2008 2:19:12 AM
- MMD
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
I think it's all the same, isn't it?
The exact same gas is distributed thru the same pipeline to the different brandnames. They even flush higher octane with lower octane to use the same pipeline.
Different companies might dump in some additives (probably a totally minimal mount so they can say they did) just before it goes onto trucks to their stations.
BTW, Put your own Techron in gas if you want a decent amt of additive. Not sure where you get it (the good stuff) now that BMW stopped selling it.
The exact same gas is distributed thru the same pipeline to the different brandnames. They even flush higher octane with lower octane to use the same pipeline.
Different companies might dump in some additives (probably a totally minimal mount so they can say they did) just before it goes onto trucks to their stations.
BTW, Put your own Techron in gas if you want a decent amt of additive. Not sure where you get it (the good stuff) now that BMW stopped selling it.
Apr 11, 2008 10:13:44 AM
- Jim_in_Iowa
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Quote:
mdrums said:
Are all Shell stations 10% ethanol? My local Shell pump say's nothing about this.
Shell is also sneaky about where they put the ethanol stickers. I've seen lots of them above the pumps, on the vertical section that goes to the canopy.
No. It varies, even in the same city. As far as I can tell, Shell sells VPower to their dealers like an ice cream shop, what flavor do you want?
In my area, last year we had as VPower: 1) 93 E0, 2) 93 E10, and 3) 91 E0 (all (R+M/2)). Once they dropped #1, I switched to BP 93 E0. Number 2 is just #3 with 10% Ethanol added. Ethanol does add octane, but lowers the BTU by about 3%, so power and mileage drop by that.
In Germany, all the VPower I saw was 100 (95, using (R+M)/2). That's the ideal gas for the car. The closest approximation in the US is to blend 91 or 93 with some 100.
Apr 11, 2008 12:40:47 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
My pops, who's as persnickety as they come about tune and performance (old-school machinist, builds his own engines, as in 1930's 12-cylinder Lincolns, etc...), swears that his new Escalade just hunts around at idle and isn't happy with anything but Amoco Ultimate Premium, which is at BP now..
I, like MMD, never perceived much realistic running-difference between different-make 93-octane premiums... But my wife also drives an Escalade, and I had also noticed how the thing would be acting "weird" on certain fuels, surging during accerator transitions and whatnot...
So now I find myself seeking BP stations... I've never really done that, for the sake of the fuel, before... I always chose a chain of stations based on how clean and modern and well-maintained the pumps were... (nothing like sitting there waiting for 20 minutes to fill your tank due to an un-serviced pick-up filter...)
I, like MMD, never perceived much realistic running-difference between different-make 93-octane premiums... But my wife also drives an Escalade, and I had also noticed how the thing would be acting "weird" on certain fuels, surging during accerator transitions and whatnot...
So now I find myself seeking BP stations... I've never really done that, for the sake of the fuel, before... I always chose a chain of stations based on how clean and modern and well-maintained the pumps were... (nothing like sitting there waiting for 20 minutes to fill your tank due to an un-serviced pick-up filter...)
Apr 11, 2008 12:47:28 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Also, for those of you who store their cars for extended periods (northerners, or those who have multiple homes..), ethanol of course is ALCOHOL... Alcohol conducts electricity... Pure-Petroleum-based fuel does not... When you introduce alcohol to your car, even in 10% ratio, contact with disimilar metals starts up, effectively, a BATTERY, and accelerated corrossion of certain metals is the result... I learned all of this not from some whacked-out agenda-driven tin-foil-hat website, but instead from a researcher with the U.S. Department of Energy, who are studying the short and long term effects of ethanol-enhanced fuels in everything from automobiles to lawn mowers... The conductivity of the alcohol is a problem, unless the car is designed inside-out in materials that are not effected and do not start creating current between each other....
Suffice it to say, we DRAIN all the fuel out of our collector cars until we're ready to drive one. You never know what got pumped in there, as was said, often ethanol stickers are hard to see or just not there...
Suffice it to say, we DRAIN all the fuel out of our collector cars until we're ready to drive one. You never know what got pumped in there, as was said, often ethanol stickers are hard to see or just not there...
Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Quote:You can get Techron additive at Pep Boys and I'm sure other auto stores.
MMD said:
I think it's all the same, isn't it?
The exact same gas is distributed thru the same pipeline to the different brandnames. They even flush higher octane with lower octane to use the same pipeline.
Different companies might dump in some additives (probably a totally minimal mount so they can say they did) just before it goes onto trucks to their stations.
BTW, Put your own Techron in gas if you want a decent amt of additive. Not sure where you get it (the good stuff) now that BMW stopped selling it.
Apr 11, 2008 1:15:13 PM
- JoeRockhead
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
I asked my dealer about Sunoco 94 and they recommended Shell. Sunoco up here uses 10% ethanol, Shell does not. In your manual, there is a section talking about fuel with ethanol. Porsche says performance 'may' suffer with ethanol fuels, although 10% shouldn't cause any issues. I use both Shell or Sunoco's highest grades and really haven't noticed a difference.
Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Quote:
jeffbco said:
You can get Techron additive at Pep Boys and I'm sure other auto stores.
Yes. Thank you.
I guess it's better than nothing. But I'm wondering if it's as good as the BMW version. At least with BMW you have some assurance that it's the good stuff. The "retail outlet" stuff might be watered down so it works with all cars and can avoid lawsuits for damaging a..., I dunno..., a Hyundai? 
Apr 12, 2008 4:52:39 PM
- MMD
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Quote:
Trundle_GT3 said:
Sometimes when you travel about, your choices are limited. (New Mexico)
What to do...
Gas & Go
What freeks me out? How do we _know_ we're getting premium gas anyway? Cars adjust: no knocking anymore.
Would be a great profit maker just to dump regular in the premium storage tanks.
There's no field test for octane levels.
Apr 12, 2008 5:11:47 PM
- JoeRockhead
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Quote:
MMD said:Quote:
Trundle_GT3 said:
Sometimes when you travel about, your choices are limited. (New Mexico)
What to do...
Gas & Go
What freeks me out? How do we _know_ we're getting premium gas anyway? Cars adjust: no knocking anymore.
Would be a great profit maker just to dump regular in the premium storage tanks.
There's no field test for octane levels.
I've never noticed any difference in my car. I have BMW K1200S that requires a minimum of 94 octane. It will run on less but you do notice the difference in performance on that. I don't think oil companies are stupid enough to try to dupe you like that, but you never know.
Apr 12, 2008 7:10:36 PM
- MMD
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Apr 14, 2008 9:03:29 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
The same government employees who certify the pumps, also keep check that they're pumping the advertised fuel, I believe...
Also, the octane requirement lessens as altitude increases, i.e. you don't need 93 octane at 5,000 feet above sea level... That's why you see octane levels decrease at stations as you go further up in the air... You're not getting "screwed" with the fuel, it's simply matched to the atmosphere of the surrounding area...
Also, the octane requirement lessens as altitude increases, i.e. you don't need 93 octane at 5,000 feet above sea level... That's why you see octane levels decrease at stations as you go further up in the air... You're not getting "screwed" with the fuel, it's simply matched to the atmosphere of the surrounding area...
Apr 14, 2008 10:06:32 PM
- Jim_in_Iowa
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Apr 14, 2008 10:16:26 PM
- Jim_in_Iowa
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Quote:
MMD said:Quote:
Trundle_GT3 said:
Sometimes when you travel about, your choices are limited. (New Mexico)
What to do...
Gas & Go
What freeks me out? How do we _know_ we're getting premium gas anyway? Cars adjust: no knocking anymore.
Would be a great profit maker just to dump regular in the premium storage tanks.
There's no field test for octane levels.
Well here's an interesting story. Last summer all of the BPs suddenly went from 93 to 91. I was in a panic, because Shell had just cut out 93 VPower and went to either 91 or 93 with Ethanol. I was worried all I could get was 91, a la California.
Well one day I'm driving down a major street, sitting a light, and I look over at a BP. It's 93. WTF? I look at the next BP, it's 91. Double WTF? I used to work for an Amoco while in college. I know the same truck delivers to all the stations in the area, and the terminal is a few miles from my parents.
So I call up the distributor and ask why do some have 93 and some 91? I tell her I'm looking for 93. She's somewhat confused by this, and transfers me to the regional marketing manager. Here's what happened. The fuel to our terminal is delivered by pipeline, the "meridian" pipeline. Last summer someone at the charging end made a mistake and put 91 instead of 93 into the pipeline. In a panic, all of the BPs restickered to make sure they weren't falsely advertising. After the partial load of 91 went through the pipeline, some BPs put the 93 stickers back on, others said fugit, it says 91 minimum, so why bother. The manager told me they intent to keep selling 93 and the 91 was a one-time mistake.
So they do pay attention and do care, at least in this case.
Jim
Apr 15, 2008 12:47:37 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Quote:
Flagg said:
we only get 95 and 98 octane here and ofc the 98 is the better one
I remember long ago when we were discussing octane, that different countries use different formulas to arrive at octane ratings, hence 98 octane in Dubai may be no different whatsoever than 93 octane in the U.S... The octane ratings are not "standardized" on a global scale (much like break-in procedure
)...How does a GT3 run on 90 octane? ALTITUDE... Thought I covered that...
Apr 15, 2008 5:29:22 PM
- Dan L
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Quote:
Trundle_GT3 said:
Sometimes when you travel about, your choices are limited. (New Mexico)
What to do...
Gas & Go
I used to trek through New Mexico regularly and was always looking for premium for the turbo. There IS one place (or used to be!) in Gallup with higher octane stuff. You have to hunt around!
dan
Apr 15, 2008 10:56:24 PM
- Jim_in_Iowa
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Quote:
Flagg said:
we only get 95 and 98 octane here and ofc the 98 is the better one
I suspect that your 98 is about like 93 in (R+M)/2. In Germany there's 100 and then 98. I believe their 100 is like 95 in (R+M)/2.
In Britain BP and Shell each sell a version of F1 type fuel, here's BP link:
http://www.bp.com/genericsection.do?categoryId=6621&contentId=7017179
Also note how carefully Shell blends fuel for Ferrari in F1. The real calculator has 25 inputs
http://www.shell.com/home/content/ferrari-en/interactive_zone/fuel_calc/fuel_calc.html
Apr 16, 2008 2:12:21 AM
- Leawood911
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Here is the real deal! Just filled up a 51/49 mix (I call it X-51!) and it's like renting a 997TT for 250 miles.
The difference in performance is amazing, have been doing this for years, even with my 996. There are more and more of these 100 octane pumps being put into service. You should be able to find one in your neighborhood if you look (google) http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index2.html
You will notice a significant performance improvement and excellen gas mileage too. (the mileage really does not matter at $6 per gallon) A 997 will instantly 'Tune' to the increase in octane (up to a point) and it will seem like a different car especially if you have been using 92 Octane or less.
Cheers, I hope someone else has a change to try this and comment.
The difference in performance is amazing, have been doing this for years, even with my 996. There are more and more of these 100 octane pumps being put into service. You should be able to find one in your neighborhood if you look (google) http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index2.html
You will notice a significant performance improvement and excellen gas mileage too. (the mileage really does not matter at $6 per gallon) A 997 will instantly 'Tune' to the increase in octane (up to a point) and it will seem like a different car especially if you have been using 92 Octane or less.
Cheers, I hope someone else has a change to try this and comment.
Apr 16, 2008 2:55:48 AM
- mdrums
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Placebo effect.
Quote:
Leawood911 said:
Here is the real deal! Just filled up a 51/49 mix (I call it X-51!) and it's like renting a 997TT for 250 miles.
The difference in performance is amazing, have been doing this for years, even with my 996. There are more and more of these 100 octane pumps being put into service. You should be able to find one in your neighborhood if you look (google) http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index2.html
You will notice a significant performance improvement and excellen gas mileage too. (the mileage really does not matter at $6 per gallon) A 997 will instantly 'Tune' to the increase in octane (up to a point) and it will seem like a different car especially if you have been using 92 Octane or less.
Cheers, I hope someone else has a change to try this and comment.
Apr 16, 2008 10:56:18 AM
- Leawood911
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Quote:
mdrums said:
Placebo effect.
What is with this board sometimes?
We are not talking about $17K for X-51. Spend $50 and add some to your tank and TRY IT rather than proudly displaying your ignorance! Obviously you have not tried to mix 100 octane 50/50 with premium. Why is it so hard to believe that it works? Do you not want it to? Clearly high octane gas has been known to increase power and our cars are more than capable of using it effectively. There is no reason why I would be telling tall tales. I am not posting performance times of any type, all I can say is that after 25 years of driving Porsches I can tell if I left my gym bag in the passenger side or how much fuel is in the tank depending on the cars acceleration 'feel' and handling. If you try it and then still think I am imagining things I will be VERY surprised. Why not just try it and then make an informed comment? Dismissing it out of hand is just foolish on your part as you are missing out. Your loss. I guess you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
You all have your choice - listen to mdrums, save $50 and never know for certain OR just TRY IT! Thank me later.
Apr 16, 2008 1:46:06 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Increasing octane does not directly increase power by itself...
But it does allow you to feasibly run more timing-advance...
The question is, does the 997's computer adjust and run a more aggressive advance when afforded a higher octane? Or is it pretty much programmed to max-timing with pump-premium (93 in the U.S.), and hence won't deliver much of anything when introducing the higher-octane fuel?
I used to pump in 100-octane when I drag-raced on a regular basis... By itself, it never produced measurable improvement, but it allowed me to twist my distributor an extra few degrees (this is on old american V8's), which would indeed gain me a tenth or two or three depending on the car and conditions...
Alot of times, there's un-tapped potential in BOOSTED cars where feeding it higher-octane fuel will definitely allow the computer to maintain a much more aggressive timing-curve as boost initiates and builds...
On N/A cars? You don't have the compression variations going on, so the calibration limits are narrower...
But at this point, I'm really getting into bench-racing mode!!
But it does allow you to feasibly run more timing-advance...
The question is, does the 997's computer adjust and run a more aggressive advance when afforded a higher octane? Or is it pretty much programmed to max-timing with pump-premium (93 in the U.S.), and hence won't deliver much of anything when introducing the higher-octane fuel?
I used to pump in 100-octane when I drag-raced on a regular basis... By itself, it never produced measurable improvement, but it allowed me to twist my distributor an extra few degrees (this is on old american V8's), which would indeed gain me a tenth or two or three depending on the car and conditions...
Alot of times, there's un-tapped potential in BOOSTED cars where feeding it higher-octane fuel will definitely allow the computer to maintain a much more aggressive timing-curve as boost initiates and builds...
On N/A cars? You don't have the compression variations going on, so the calibration limits are narrower...
But at this point, I'm really getting into bench-racing mode!!
Apr 16, 2008 5:22:16 PM
- intouch1
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Apr 16, 2008 6:37:40 PM
- Leawood911
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
Yes, I too used to twist distributors and yes the 997 Computer adjusts timing and has no problem running much better as soon as it sees the increased octane. Some aftermarket chip tuners even include specific 100 octane maps that allow for even more gains.
You are correct again in that N/A cars will not see as much gain as a blown motor but my advice here is just to look for one of these 100 octane pumps and try it. You will be pleasantly surprised.
You are correct again in that N/A cars will not see as much gain as a blown motor but my advice here is just to look for one of these 100 octane pumps and try it. You will be pleasantly surprised.
Apr 16, 2008 11:13:30 PM
- mdrums
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
I have tried it and on a race track so I could monitor times and overall feel of the car. I track every month a Sebring and they have Sunoco fuels right next to the pits. I go through around 4 tanks a day at the track. 93/98/100 and mixutre and so for, there is no difference with a stock 997S....just ask Hurley Haywood too.
Mike
What is with this board sometimes? We are not talking about $17K for X-51. Spend $50 and add some to your tank and TRY IT rather than proudly displaying your ignorance! Obviously you have not tried to mix 100 octane 50/50 with premium. Why is it so hard to believe that it works? Do you not want it to? Clearly high octane gas has been known to increase power and our cars are more than capable of using it effectively. There is no reason why I would be telling tall tales. I am not posting performance times of any type, all I can say is that after 25 years of driving Porsches I can tell if I left my gym bag in the passenger side or how much fuel is in the tank depending on the cars acceleration 'feel' and handling. If you try it and then still think I am imagining things I will be VERY surprised. Why not just try it and then make an informed comment? Dismissing it out of hand is just foolish on your part as you are missing out. Your loss. I guess you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
You all have your choice - listen to mdrums, save $50 and never know for certain OR just TRY IT! Thank me later.
Mike
Quote:
Leawood911 said:Quote:
mdrums said:
Placebo effect.
What is with this board sometimes?
We are not talking about $17K for X-51. Spend $50 and add some to your tank and TRY IT rather than proudly displaying your ignorance! Obviously you have not tried to mix 100 octane 50/50 with premium. Why is it so hard to believe that it works? Do you not want it to? Clearly high octane gas has been known to increase power and our cars are more than capable of using it effectively. There is no reason why I would be telling tall tales. I am not posting performance times of any type, all I can say is that after 25 years of driving Porsches I can tell if I left my gym bag in the passenger side or how much fuel is in the tank depending on the cars acceleration 'feel' and handling. If you try it and then still think I am imagining things I will be VERY surprised. Why not just try it and then make an informed comment? Dismissing it out of hand is just foolish on your part as you are missing out. Your loss. I guess you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.You all have your choice - listen to mdrums, save $50 and never know for certain OR just TRY IT! Thank me later.
Apr 16, 2008 11:17:10 PM
- mdrums
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Re: best gas for 997(manual transmission)
+1 absolutly correct. Also you want to run the lowest Octane you can before detonation. The LOWER the octane number the more volital the fuel. Higher octane fuel is a slower burn and it takes higher compression to combust a higher octane fuel.
Quote:
69bossnine said:
Increasing octane does not directly increase power by itself...
But it does allow you to feasibly run more timing-advance...
The question is, does the 997's computer adjust and run a more aggressive advance when afforded a higher octane? Or is it pretty much programmed to max-timing with pump-premium (93 in the U.S.), and hence won't deliver much of anything when introducing the higher-octane fuel?
I used to pump in 100-octane when I drag-raced on a regular basis... By itself, it never produced measurable improvement, but it allowed me to twist my distributor an extra few degrees (this is on old american V8's), which would indeed gain me a tenth or two or three depending on the car and conditions...
Alot of times, there's un-tapped potential in BOOSTED cars where feeding it higher-octane fuel will definitely allow the computer to maintain a much more aggressive timing-curve as boost initiates and builds...
On N/A cars? You don't have the compression variations going on, so the calibration limits are narrower...
But at this point, I'm really getting into bench-racing mode!!
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