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Feb 15, 2007 8:05:01 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel
I read this entire thread, and that's 2 minutes of my life I'll never have back....
My grandfather used to have this saying, "you're picking the fly-sh!t out of the pepper..."
I doubt your maybe 200ml of "overfill" is enough to worry about, I can't imagine Porsche would calibrate the gauge to that razor of an edge..
If the cold measurement is indeed the physical one, and the hot a computer-algorithmic-estimate, I'd go with the cold measure, and worry not a bit..
My grandfather used to have this saying, "you're picking the fly-sh!t out of the pepper..."
I doubt your maybe 200ml of "overfill" is enough to worry about, I can't imagine Porsche would calibrate the gauge to that razor of an edge..
If the cold measurement is indeed the physical one, and the hot a computer-algorithmic-estimate, I'd go with the cold measure, and worry not a bit..
Feb 15, 2007 11:30:29 PM
- SonOfStig
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Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel
But they say time seems to slow when you're bored (Catch-22), so maybe it felt like 4 mins? OK, not 4 super high quality minutes but still... we might have done you a favour - extended your life at the cost of our engines!
OK, I accept, scrabbling for excuses here... Both unlikely, I know. Sorry.
OK, I accept, scrabbling for excuses here... Both unlikely, I know. Sorry.
Feb 16, 2007 2:14:42 AM
- MMD
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Feb 16, 2007 3:36:20 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: your 2 minutes
bossman, I really respect your views so please don't get me wrong. However, many of us aren't as knowledgeable as you on the mechanics/engineering at work inside our cars. 
Like many people here, I am passionate about driving them without really understanding (in depth) how it all works. 
These cars are, relatively speaking, expensive purchases for many of us so we naturally worry when something doesn't seem right, doesn't make sense or if we accidentally don't follow the manual. Sometimes those slip-ups don't matter, sometimes they do. It's just that the less knowledgeable amongst us wouldn't be able to tell the difference between when these slip-ups aren't dangerous from when they might be. What seems obvious to you isn't necessarily obvious to some of us who have less technical knowledge than you. 
Absolutely no offence intended - just trying to explain some of the anxiety of newbie Porsche owners who haven't had much experience of Porsche ownership
BTW: on this specific issue of knowing how to interpret the electronic engine oil measurement, I think my explanation is useful to those who are puzzled how it all works. I took me a short while to figure that out so I'm just passing on what I know if it's helpful to other newbies out there.
Like many people here, I am passionate about driving them without really understanding (in depth) how it all works. These cars are, relatively speaking, expensive purchases for many of us so we naturally worry when something doesn't seem right, doesn't make sense or if we accidentally don't follow the manual. Sometimes those slip-ups don't matter, sometimes they do. It's just that the less knowledgeable amongst us wouldn't be able to tell the difference between when these slip-ups aren't dangerous from when they might be. What seems obvious to you isn't necessarily obvious to some of us who have less technical knowledge than you.
Absolutely no offence intended - just trying to explain some of the anxiety of newbie Porsche owners who haven't had much experience of Porsche ownership
BTW: on this specific issue of knowing how to interpret the electronic engine oil measurement, I think my explanation is useful to those who are puzzled how it all works. I took me a short while to figure that out so I'm just passing on what I know if it's helpful to other newbies out there.
Feb 16, 2007 3:39:59 PM
- 69bossnine
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Feb 16, 2007 3:43:31 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: your 2 minutes
Amen to that! Although I would add that I would probably check my engine oil less often that way. Having it do it for me automatically every time is helpful. I know what you're going to say though: how can it be really all that helpful if the readings it gives are so easily open to misinterpretation? Yes, I know But I only ever rely on the reading I get first thing in the morning when my engine is stone cold so I'm happy with that
But I only ever rely on the reading I get first thing in the morning when my engine is stone cold so I'm happy with that
Feb 16, 2007 4:53:48 PM
- MMD
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Re: your 2 minutes
Everybody's problem and brain-strain, and worry would be GONE it you did THE RIGHT THING and drained some oil!
Again the word "NEVER" as in "NEVER overfill" is as clear as glass.
In this respect this thread is "a waste of time" because it is more about trying to convince eachother that 2+2=4 but not all the time.
Sorry, rant over... .
Again the word "NEVER" as in "NEVER overfill" is as clear as glass.
In this respect this thread is "a waste of time" because it is more about trying to convince eachother that 2+2=4 but not all the time.
Sorry, rant over... .
Feb 16, 2007 5:21:30 PM
- easy_rider911
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Feb 16, 2007 6:47:01 PM
- MMD
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Re: your 2 minutes
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Huh? MMD, I haven't overfilled. I never have. Other people have. I've also never questioned what you wrote about the manual saying that one should never overfill. I agree!
Hey Buddy,
Sorry you felt like you were in the blast zone: I didn't mean to single anybody out specifically.
One thing is for sure we never would have this uncertainty if we had a freekin' dipstick. You'd know if you had a tiny amt of overfill or alot.
Re: your 2 minutes
Quote:
MMD said:
Everybody's problem and brain-strain, and worry would be GONE it you did THE RIGHT THING and drained some oil!
Again the word "NEVER" as in "NEVER overfill" is as clear as glass.
In this respect this thread is "a waste of time" because it is more about trying to convince eachother that 2+2=4 but not all the time.
Sorry, rant over... .
So how is it an OPC appears to over-fill (on the guage) during a routine service, saying they've put in the correct amount?
And what recourse, if any, can we claim not knowing if any damage has occurred during subsequent mileage.
Have you had your 1st service yet? Was the the oil level correct when it was returned?
Re: your 2 minutes
Quote:
John H said:Quote:
MMD said:
Everybody's problem and brain-strain, and worry would be GONE it you did THE RIGHT THING and drained some oil!
Again the word "NEVER" as in "NEVER overfill" is as clear as glass.
In this respect this thread is "a waste of time" because it is more about trying to convince eachother that 2+2=4 but not all the time.
Sorry, rant over... .
So how is it an OPC appears to over-fill (on the guage) during a routine service, saying they've put in the correct amount?
And what recourse, if any, can we claim not knowing if any damage has occurred during subsequent mileage.
Have you had your 1st service yet? Was the the oil level correct when it was returned?
My guess is they're not too good at living without a dipstick. They'll BS anybody on the "small" stuff. They're just saying "we know more than what the manual sez." Do you believe them?
No first service yet. I changed my own oil/filter after a year.
For my other cars after a dealer oil change I drive home and check their work.
I dump their new oil and put my own in. In effect I let them rinse out my engine with their oil.
Might do the same thing with the Carrera. Can I trust the dealer service to put in the "correct" oil? Or are they putting in something that is "just as good?"
WTF knows? If they are exclusively a Porsche dealer you're probably getting the correct oil.
Fun huh?
Re: your 2 minutes
I don't think anyone is in disagreement that over-filling is to be avoided.
I think the question is, is it more risky/hassle to drain some oil out (possibly damaging the drain seal) or to just leave it and risk future engine problems.
Without a real dipstick, we have no way of knowing exactly how much over the level is, but my view is that if the difference between full and overfill was that critical then this would be recorded by the ECU and the warrantee would be voided. Maybe a little extreme and a little tongue in cheek, but you see what I mean. I figure there is a safety margin, and the manual is always going to say "Don't ever overfill", as it's not going to say "If you overfill, don't worry about it"
As MMD hinted at earlier, some people take the manual as gospel, some people use more flexible judgement.
The fact that OPCs can overfill on our behalf stinks though.
I have trouble enough getting them to understand that when I say "Don't wash the car" I MEAN "DON'T WASH THE F'ING CAR! - When all the cars in your showroom have swirl marks on them, what makes me think you can wash a car properly?"
I think the question is, is it more risky/hassle to drain some oil out (possibly damaging the drain seal) or to just leave it and risk future engine problems.
Without a real dipstick, we have no way of knowing exactly how much over the level is, but my view is that if the difference between full and overfill was that critical then this would be recorded by the ECU and the warrantee would be voided. Maybe a little extreme and a little tongue in cheek, but you see what I mean. I figure there is a safety margin, and the manual is always going to say "Don't ever overfill", as it's not going to say "If you overfill, don't worry about it"
As MMD hinted at earlier, some people take the manual as gospel, some people use more flexible judgement.
The fact that OPCs can overfill on our behalf stinks though.
I have trouble enough getting them to understand that when I say "Don't wash the car" I MEAN "DON'T WASH THE F'ING CAR! - When all the cars in your showroom have swirl marks on them, what makes me think you can wash a car properly?"
Re: your 2 minutes
Quote:
wtsnet said:
I have trouble enough getting them to understand that when I say "Don't wash the car" I MEAN "DON'T WASH THE F'ING CAR! - When all the cars in your showroom have swirl marks on them, what makes me think you can wash a car properly?"
They don't wash cars they wet sand them.
I put two signs in the car. One large on the dash which says in block letters "DO NOT WASH." The other gets taped over radio/nav. There's an employee with special qualifications who wet sands the cars; he's skilled at being too discouraged to pay attention and look out for "special instructions."
Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel
Quote:
John H said:
You've got me worried now.
I had my first service done at 16,000 miles. When the Dealer returned it the oil level was right at the top of the scale (over the top). They assured me that they had added the correct amount when the oil and filter was changed.
I've now done over 4,000 miles since the service and the level has never changed - i.e. right at the top, over the full mark. The only time it shows below is if I check it on an uphill slope.
I haven't noticed any problems - no excessive smoke on start-up etc. and the car is running better than ever - so what does everyone think?
John,
I'm in the same position you are. At 5,392 miles, I decided to get an oil and filter change. On picking up the car, the oil level appeared to be correct. On reaching my home, after letting the car sit, it showed the level above the "full mark." I haven't drained any oil (I have drained some in the past, when I accidentally added too much) since then, and the level (1,235 miles later) is still the same.
I think that the dealer, when changing the oil and filter, just "adds" the specified amount and doesn't start the car, run it a bit, and then turn it off, let it rest for a 10 minutes, and then check the level again. If they did this, it would probably take them 10-20 minutes longer to get the oil level correct, even if they added a bit less on the first fill.
By the way, follow MMD's recommendations if you want to drain any oil. I did something similar to his and have not had any problems with draining oil. You just have to take the precautions he listed and PAY CLOSE ATTENTION at all times.
I haven't drained any oil thus far and performance hasn't suffered nor have I noticed any oil leaking from the rear main seal. Maybe I should do it now as I haven't been able to take it out for over a week.
Jim
Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel
Quote:
Jim48 said:Quote:
John H said:
You've got me worried now.
I had my first service done at 16,000 miles. When the Dealer returned it the oil level was right at the top of the scale (over the top). They assured me that they had added the correct amount when the oil and filter was changed.
I've now done over 4,000 miles since the service and the level has never changed - i.e. right at the top, over the full mark. The only time it shows below is if I check it on an uphill slope.
I haven't noticed any problems - no excessive smoke on start-up etc. and the car is running better than ever - so what does everyone think?
John,
I'm in the same position you are. At 5,392 miles, I decided to get an oil and filter change. On picking up the car, the oil level appeared to be correct. On reaching my home, after letting the car sit, it showed the level above the "full mark." I haven't drained any oil (I have drained some in the past, when I accidentally added too much) since then, and the level (1,235 miles later) is still the same.
I think that the dealer, when changing the oil and filter, just "adds" the specified amount and doesn't start the car, run it a bit, and then turn it off, let it rest for a 10 minutes, and then check the level again. If they did this, it would probably take them 10-20 minutes longer to get the oil level correct, even if they added a bit less on the first fill.
By the way, follow MMD's recommendations if you want to drain any oil. I did something similar to his and have not had any problems with draining oil. You just have to take the precautions he listed and PAY CLOSE ATTENTION at all times.
I haven't drained any oil thus far and performance hasn't suffered nor have I noticed any oil leaking from the rear main seal. Maybe I should do it now as I haven't been able to take it out for over a week.
Jim
Thanks Jim,
I'm going to mention it again when I visit my OPC next week. Will let you know what they say.....
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