Apr 26, 2006 1:56:50 PM
- W8MM
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Board: Other Sports Cars
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Apr 26, 2006 4:15:12 PM
- SoCalHoosier
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Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Anyone willing to pay MSRP can buy a Z06. Anyone willing to pay MSRP can buy a Porsche. Very few can buy a Ferrari at MSRP. That is prestige. 
The rest of the crap about performance is just that crap! On another Porsche site a vendor is advertising a power kit for the CGT because a modified 993 destroyed it in a race.
There will always be someone faster at less cost so speed does not buy prestige.
The rest of the crap about performance is just that crap! On another Porsche site a vendor is advertising a power kit for the CGT because a modified 993 destroyed it in a race.
There will always be someone faster at less cost so speed does not buy prestige.
Apr 26, 2006 6:23:00 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
W8MM said:Quote:
nberry said:Very few can buy a Ferrari at MSRP. That is prestige.
And to think I always assumed it was a Ponzi scheme, not prestige
Indeed
Nick, you can't buy "prestige" with money, which is all that it takes to buy a Ferrari, wether its at MSRP or higher than MSRP (as a normal consecuence of no other than when supply is purposedly limited bellow than demand). Its does not have anything to do with "prestige".
Some people buy a car at over MSRP becuase the want the car itself for what it is, a sportcar to be driven and enjoyed, yet sadly others buy it just becuase its at MSRP and because other people would like the car. A sad way to enjoy things, though other's wishes.
Apr 26, 2006 7:13:48 PM
- Justin
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Hey Nick,
Long time, no see! Excuse my ignorance for a moment...
I'm curious as to what it would take to be in your situatio in the Ferrari world. Assuming I had the money, would I have to: a) know someone, b) first buy a used Ferrari at $50k over MSRP, c) sign any agreements for consignment of future trade-ins, d) service their car only at the original dealership e) all of the above?
I guess my question is whether someone can obtain a Ferrari at MSRP without first jumping through certain hoops, and if not, what are the costs of these hoops. In the long-term, the net costs of these hoops may very well be zero due to flipping and trade-ins.
Long time, no see! Excuse my ignorance for a moment...
I'm curious as to what it would take to be in your situatio in the Ferrari world. Assuming I had the money, would I have to: a) know someone, b) first buy a used Ferrari at $50k over MSRP, c) sign any agreements for consignment of future trade-ins, d) service their car only at the original dealership e) all of the above?
I guess my question is whether someone can obtain a Ferrari at MSRP without first jumping through certain hoops, and if not, what are the costs of these hoops. In the long-term, the net costs of these hoops may very well be zero due to flipping and trade-ins.
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
Justin said:
Hey Nick,
Long time, no see! Excuse my ignorance for a moment...
I'm curious as to what it would take to be in your situatio in the Ferrari world. Assuming I had the money, would I have to: a) know someone, b) first buy a used Ferrari at $50k over MSRP, c) sign any agreements for consignment of future trade-ins, d) service their car only at the original dealership e) all of the above?
I guess my question is whether someone can obtain a Ferrari at MSRP without first jumping through certain hoops, and if not, what are the costs of these hoops. In the long-term, the net costs of these hoops may very well be zero due to flipping and trade-ins.
If you ask me, any self-respecting individual will say "No, thank you." and go buy a Lambo or a Porsche. Of course many people suffer from low self esteem and a need for validation.
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
Justin said:
Hey Nick,
Long time, no see! Excuse my ignorance for a moment...
I'm curious as to what it would take to be in your situatio in the Ferrari world. Assuming I had the money, would I have to: a) know someone, b) first buy a used Ferrari at $50k over MSRP, c) sign any agreements for consignment of future trade-ins, d) service their car only at the original dealership e) all of the above?
I guess my question is whether someone can obtain a Ferrari at MSRP without first jumping through certain hoops, and if not, what are the costs of these hoops. In the long-term, the net costs of these hoops may very well be zero due to flipping and trade-ins.
b) is necessary
d) you pay 250K for a new car, just go to the dealer for service
a) isn't, they'll know you alright when forking 50K over MSRP
About knowing someone, of course knowing the owner of the dealership will get you a new car at MSRP. But you have to know him well enough for him to forego $50K profit...
All the above is the "fast and expensive" way.
Want to save some money and be patient?
I am sure around the country, a dealer will put your name on an obscure list for an F car at MSRP in 3-6 years, along with your deposit
Another way might be to buy a few expensive used Maserati at the F dealer and build a relationship, you need a few years in front of you though.
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
SciFrog said:
About knowing someone, of course knowing the owner of the dealership will get you a new car at MSRP. But you have to know him well enough for him to forego $50K profit...
You've really got to be the dealer's own mother to get a car at MSRP?
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
nberry said:
I will acknowledge that Von Saurma has familiarity with the Ring. But to conclude Von Saurma is able to extract the best time for all the cars he drives on the Ring is just plain nonsense. If that was the case, all car manufacturer's would turn their cars over to him. We all know that is not the case.
Of course, this is coming from someone that is clueless.
I won't argue regarding this "clueless" thing.
But regarding HvS: look at the cars tested in the Supertests, I'd say that car manufacturers trust him pretty much. Of course I don't know if they like the results, thats a different story. BTW: you don't really think that car manufacturers pass the keys of the car to HvS, HvS steps into the car, drives his Nordschleife time and the test is over?! 
Things work completely different, some manufacturers have a team of technicians and engineers on standby, they check everything and if they REALLY don't like the results, I'm pretty sure that HvS would be cooperative enough to refrain from publishing. It is a give and take situation, if you want car manufacturers to give you cars and play along, you have to give them a chance to say NO in the end.Regarding the Z06: I don't understand why we're so surprised again. No doubt, the Z06 is a very fast car and a bargain for it's performance. But we haven't seen a 997 Turbo review yet.
Regarding the GT3, I doubt it can keep up with the Z06 on the straight line, very unlikely. Nordschleife? Well: I'd say the Z06 and the GT3 may hit the same track time, somewhere in the 7:50s. Depends on the driver and road conditions. And speculating that the claimed 7:42/7:49 times for the 997 Turbo are true, I think that there is still a small advantage for the Turbo. But let us not start with speculations again, we will learn the truth sooner or later.
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
RC said: I'd say the Z06 and the GT3 may hit the same track time, somewhere in the 7:50s.
RC - Since the 997 GT3 has standard Michelin Sport tires (like Cups with grooves), don't you think the time will be in the 7:40's? I think even mid 7:40's myself. The 996 GT3 MkII was 7:54 with street tires, right?
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
RC said: I'd say the Z06 and the GT3 may hit the same track time, somewhere in the 7:50s.
RC - Since the 997 GT3 has standard Michelin Sport tires (like Cups with grooves), don't you think the time will be in the 7:40's? I think even mid 7:40's myself. The 996 GT3 MkII was 7:54 with street tires, right?
I already know the time, can't post it. Just a hint: you're not quite right but not far away either.
Also don't forget that it makes a difference if Walter Röhrl testdrives a GT3 or if Horst von Saurma does it. Since WR actually helps develop these cars, his times are always better by a couple of seconds. Personally, I'm referring more to the Horst v. Saurma time because he is a very good and professional driver but not too "close" to Porsche. His times are a little bit more "objective".
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
nberry said:
Anyone willing to pay MSRP can buy a Z06. Anyone willing to pay MSRP can buy a Porsche. Very few can buy a Ferrari at MSRP. That is prestige.
The rest of the crap about performance is just that crap! On another Porsche site a vendor is advertising a power kit for the CGT because a modified 993 destroyed it in a race.
There will always be someone faster at less cost so speed does not buy prestige.
Depends how one defines "prestige", doesn't it? I suspect 99% of those who wrap themselves in a car/other brand for "prestige" are worth <$20MMish and not in businesses/careers offering much self-confidence or "prestige".....
Sadly perhaps, for us car nuts, only ?10%ish of those worth >$100MM care about cars much.....vast majority just buy some big Benz every 2-3 yrs so their colleagues/pals/neighbors won't ridicule them....
Ironically, know of at least 2-3 multibillionaire tech titans who actually have interesting cars in their garages (and latest big planes in their hangars), but perplexingly seem to choose to tool around SF/SilicVy in humble SL55s (not 65s)
....guess once one reaches the "don't have to prove anything to anyone" stage, one chooses cars (and everything else) that matters to self, rather than some general public audience....
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
Justin said:
Hey Nick,
Long time, no see! Excuse my ignorance for a moment...
I'm curious as to what it would take to be in your situatio in the Ferrari world. Assuming I had the money, would I have to: a) know someone, b) first buy a used Ferrari at $50k over MSRP, c) sign any agreements for consignment of future trade-ins, d) service their car only at the original dealership e) all of the above?
I guess my question is whether someone can obtain a Ferrari at MSRP without first jumping through certain hoops, and if not, what are the costs of these hoops. In the long-term, the net costs of these hoops may very well be zero due to flipping and trade-ins.
Actually, not very difficult to get a new F@MSRP in US within a few mths....similar simple game to getting a desirable table on short notice at FrenchLaundry/Daniel/PerSe/ElBulli, etc.....even if one isn't a car guy/foodie, most shrewd guys w/resources have pals who are plugged-in at F/top-tier restaurants....and "slush fund" always exists for guys introduced by top-tier customers.....same game as getting a desirable tee time at a legendary golf course or a short-notice, desirable suite at FourSeasNYC/Paris.....capitalism and business relationships 101: simple, logical stuff, right?
And ponder the fact that many/most of the richest guys in any major city in world have no interest in even getting a F/if they have one, they only bother to drive it a few days/yr to take the wife to country club/dinner in S/EHampton/PalmBch, etc....
Apr 27, 2006 3:23:53 AM
- SoCal Alan
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Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
VKSF said:
.....same game as getting a desirable tee time at a legendary golf course or a short-notice, desirable suite at FourSeasNYC/Paris.....capitalism and business relationships 101: simple, logical stuff, right?
Hey, VKSF, buddy. Can you get me a tee-time at Augusta National Golf Course in Augusta, GA? Or Cypress Point in Pebble Beach? Or The Olympic Club in SF? Or Shinnecock Hills, in Southampton, NY?
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
Justin said:
Hey Nick,
Long time, no see! Excuse my ignorance for a moment...
I'm curious as to what it would take to be in your situatio in the Ferrari world. Assuming I had the money, would I have to: a) know someone, b) first buy a used Ferrari at $50k over MSRP, c) sign any agreements for consignment of future trade-ins, d) service their car only at the original dealership e) all of the above?
I guess my question is whether someone can obtain a Ferrari at MSRP without first jumping through certain hoops, and if not, what are the costs of these hoops. In the long-term, the net costs of these hoops may very well be zero due to flipping and trade-ins.
Justin, it is a process but at the end of the day you will be able to a drive one of the most coveted cars in the world almost cost free.
It is all about relationships and time. Your young and should start the process now. Talk with a dealer and establish your base.
Mike your CGT would be perfect in front of a Starbuck. Except we can't be there together. I don't want attention diverted from my 430.
Carlos, you missed the point about prestige. Ferrari's are not ubiquitous like most other cars. Ferrari is prestige. Seeing a Ferrar on the road is an event and other drivers sramble to take pictures or drive alongside and indicate their approval. Buying a Ferrari at MSRP just makes it sweeter.
Re: Tracktest: Z06, M Roadster and SL55
Quote:
Nordschleife? Well: I'd say the Z06 and the GT3 may hit the same track time, somewhere in the 7:50s.
7:50's....
I'd be dissapointed. No substantial increase from the 996 at all...Maybe the driving experience is alot better and in that case....mmmm, maybe
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