Crown

RC:

reginos:

RC:

My 991 Turbo S leather certainly doesn't look to be natural leather, also the Porsche documentation doesn't mention that anywhere. 

Congratulations RC. Your Boxster looks very attractive especially the "summer version".

Is the 981 -20mm without PASM (your reference to the absence of the comfort button)?

Also, I suppose the sport chassis must be very hard for daily driving, as even the standard the mid-engined platform rides harder than the 911

The 20 mm chassis is stiff like hell. You don't really feel the difference to PASM until you hit a bad road like I did this morning. I thought my back is going to be hurt and I had a thick winter jacket on. Also the car "jumps" a little bit on very bad roads. My wife won't be pleased I'm afraid but the car looks gorgeous with the low chassis (looks lower in reality than on pics) and it really feels very nice and "planted" in curves. A lot of oversteer though with the winter tires but I actually enjoy it because it is different from my 991 Turbo S. I just wish it had less traction issues, I have to be very careful when I accelerate from standstill on a not perfectly dry road.

I had -20mm sport chassie on my ex-997.1 Carrera S and I can understand your suffering. I hate that car, just because of this reason. It is unbearable. The suspension is stiff like a carriage. At least I had an LSD.  Actually, the LSD was the reason why I get the -20mm chassie (it was only 10mm lower than PASM equipped car). I didn't get it for the extra 10mm lower ride hide or more sporty drive. 

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

My first 997 was also a Carrera S with 20 mm sport chassis and my first PCCB brake. I loved that car, don't even know why I gave it away, it was wonderful to drive. The successor, a 997 Turbo, was even more fun to drive but mostly because of the engine and not because of the chassis. I don't remember that chassis to be that stiff (compared to the Boxster S 20 mm chassis) but maybe I just got older.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Grant:

SuzyF:

Another complain I have is that the brakepedal is too high compared to the throttle if you want to heel and toe... That said, for normal driving you don't really need to heel and toe.

Suzy - I have found this problem in several cars and the best cure is an aftermarket throttle pedal (either total replacement or one that mounts over the existing pedal) to raise its height.  Some are adjustable for fine tuning...

I have been thinking about that.... But to be honest,  i don't like the aftermarket pedals i've seen so far and I'm used to it now. I needs a hit of adapting. Don't have any other car with a manual, so it doesn't really bother that much. Too bad the car doesn't have the rev matching feature.

i'll wait for the Boxster of Cayman GTS. Maybe if  i like 'em, I'll trade my Boxster for one of those... This time certainly with PDK   .... Or maybe i'll still end up with a 991. Everything is possible 

For now I'm more than satisfied with the Boxster as my fun-/weekend car. We first need better roadster-weather. My car is hibernating now in my garage 'till spring comes back.

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
 

I still think a 991 Carrera 4S Cab would be the right car for you and you could sell the Boxster but maybe I don't know you (yet) too well to judge.  A 991 Carrera GTS Cab could be interesting too (whenever it comes, if it comes) but since you haven't made a decision so far, I would definitely wait for the 991 facelift before you make a choice.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

I still think a 991 Carrera 4S Cab would be the right car for you and you could sell the Boxster but maybe I don't know you (yet) too well to judge.  A 991 Carrera GTS Cab could be interesting too (whenever it comes, if it comes) but since you haven't made a decision so far, I would definitely wait for the 991 facelift before you make a choice.

Haha  If I buy a 911 it will always be a coupe or maybe a Targa, but never a cab. But since I've decided it will not be my daily driver, I don't really see the benefit of buying a 991 over a 981 right now. I think I kinda got over the idea that I "need" a 911, because it is THE Porsche. For the driving I do, a 981 provides at least 90% of the fun that a 991 will give me, for half the money.   This doesn't mean that I won't fancy a 911, but I have plenty of time for that (at least I hope). 

I could be selfish and buy me a 991 TTS, but there are other things/cars that make more people happy than just me alone. Family and business first 

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
 

Interesting thread: I agree with you Suzy on the 911 cab vs Boxster. I would only buy a 911 coupe not a cab although of they did a Targa I might take a look.  My Boxster is very much the second car but  I'm not sure the 911 is better just different at the moment,  if you ignore the power issue- Regarding heel and toe I have found my car to be fine although it took a while to adapt from right hand drive 911s  which have more room for my right knee so you don't have to rotate the ankle so much.  I was looking for some after market pedals but stopped as it's really ok now.

And with the current weather and grip level the level of power isn't much of an issue as the S really does seem to have all its horses present if you use all the revs :)

SuzyF:

Haha  If I buy a 911 it will always be a coupe or maybe a Targa, but never a cab. But since I've decided it will not be my daily driver, I don't really see the benefit of buying a 991 over a 981 right now. I think I kinda got over the idea that I "need" a 911, because it is THE Porsche. For the driving I do, a 981 provides at least 90% of the fun that a 991 will give me, for half the money.   This doesn't mean that I won't fancy a 911, but I have plenty of time for that (at least I hope). 

I could be selfish and buy me a 991 TTS, but there are other things/cars that make more people happy than just me alone. Family and business first 

Spot on!  I could have written that.

• If a 911 then always a coupe
• The 991 is overpriced compared to the 981
• The 981 is more rewarding for the driver than a 991, unless you aim for GT3 territory
• No matter how well the GT3 drives, you can never take the roof down

Hence the 981 delivers the fun, in 90% of the areas, as a 991 GT3, but for half the money. That is how I ended up ordering a new 981 rather than a new 991 GT3 

2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

By the way, is now a good time to create a 981 sub-section under the Boxster section?  This brilliant machine deserves it's own space, just like the 986 and 987 did.

2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

Yes, the 981 sub section is due for a very long time now but I cannot do it myself (I think). I will bring it up with Eunice.

I wouldn't compare the Boxster S with a GT3 necessarily but the Boxster S delivers a lot of fun for much less money. If it just would have a couple of horses more in the upper rev range. I remember why I hated my wife's former Boxster S (987), the car just felt too powerless in the upper rev range. The 981 is much better but at the limit of what I would expect. I can't even imagine to drive a 981 (non-S) because this would really make me mad.

Btw: I just grabbed these two tail light pics from another forum. They show a Boxster sideview with the black tail lights from Porsche. Looks good to me (the rims not so much, they don't seem to "fit" the Boxster).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

bluelines:

SuzyF:

Haha  If I buy a 911 it will always be a coupe or maybe a Targa, but never a cab. But since I've decided it will not be my daily driver, I don't really see the benefit of buying a 991 over a 981 right now. I think I kinda got over the idea that I "need" a 911, because it is THE Porsche. For the driving I do, a 981 provides at least 90% of the fun that a 991 will give me, for half the money.   This doesn't mean that I won't fancy a 911, but I have plenty of time for that (at least I hope). 

I could be selfish and buy me a 991 TTS, but there are other things/cars that make more people happy than just me alone. Family and business first 

Spot on!  I could have written that.

• If a 911 then always a coupe
• The 991 is overpriced compared to the 981
• The 981 is more rewarding for the driver than a 991, unless you aim for GT3 territory
• No matter how well the GT3 drives, you can never take the roof down

Hence the 981 delivers the fun, in 90% of the areas, as a 991 GT3, but for half the money. That is how I ended up ordering a new 981 rather than a new 991 GT3 

Completely agree with your points. The 911 has always, to me at least, been ideally represented as a coupé. The 981 models provide almost all the fun the 991 provides at a substantially lower entry price and they're terrific machines.

In fact, I've actually been looking at base Caymans for the past few days... 

rulesdontapply

2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
2012 Porsche Cayenne S

The 911 has more power, better traction and the two rear seats.  Huge advantages in my book. 

However, looking at the current 911 prices, the Boxster S looks quite good. The 911 has become pretty expensive. Most of the 991 Carrera S Coupe at my dealer are over 140k EUR, most of the Cabs over 155k EUR. Ouch. Ouch and...ouch.

There are however two things I don't like on the Boxster S: The lack of power in the upper rev range and the tail lights (not a fan of the new design, it looks a bit too nervous and overstyled to me, not the design language I expected from Porsche). Both "issues" can be fixed with the facelift though.

Not a fan of the Cayman though. I think the Boxster does everything the same with the advantage of the open top.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

911 pricing is insane, or very clever (depending on how you look at it)  My soon-to-be Boxster S with paint-to-sample exterior, PDK, PCCB, PTV, PSE, sport suspension, bucket seats, etc, etc, etc. costs exactly the same as a base (non-S) 991 Carrera without a single option. Both cars have the same engine and probably 80% all components are shared.

2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

The power is indeed the main issue for the 981, at least IMO. But that is also the problem for the 991. Porsche should get rid of all S models. 

Base 981 should have 3.4 with 350hp and an optional powerkit of 25hp. Base 991 should have 3.8 with 400hp and the optional powerkit of 30hp. No more S-models... That's nothing more than marketing BS anyways.

That way, there would be more room for a model below the 981 and at the same time there will be more room between 981 and 991. 

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
 

I do share your view, but unfortunately, it doesn't work that way as most of the people would still like to let others know somehow, that they have the powerkit...brilliant marketing...

d997h:

I do share your view, but unfortunately, it doesn't work that way as most of the people would still like to let others know somehow, that they have the powerkit...brilliant marketing...

They get an X-51 or S- badge in bright red 

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
 

RC:

 

Btw: I just grabbed these two tail light pics from another forum. They show a Boxster sideview with the black tail lights from Porsche. Looks good to me (the rims not so much, they don't seem to "fit" the Boxster).

Great example of how important a proper wheel design is. these make the whole car look bad. 

SuzyF:

The power is indeed the main issue for the 981, at least IMO.

Yes, more power is mostly appreciated 

However I would no longer call it an issue, as it was with the 986 and 987. The 981 Boxster S does not look bad on paper. Performance wise it is on par with a 997.1 Carrera S with the optional -20mm sport suspension and limited slip diff. Walter managed a 7:59 lap with the 997.1 back in the days and the official time for the 981 is 7:58. Both cars reach 100km/h in 4.8 seconds. Sure, the power and torque in the 3.4 litre 981 engine is a notch down (-40hp/-40Nm) compared to the old 3.8 litre 997.1 engine, but a lower car weight and a smoother DFI power delivery should somewhat make up for this... in theory at least 

The exit at Bergwerk and up the long incline at Kesselchen and Klostertal will be my ultimate test  The 987.1 ran hopelessly out of breath there. Fingers crossed the 981 won't.

2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

RC:

The 911 has more power, better traction and the two rear seats.  Huge advantages in my book. 

The 981 has better fuel economy, better turn-in and two luggage compartments 

I think the main reason the 991 now seem so expense is the fact that the 981 has grown up. It no longer feels like a cheaper sibling to the 911 and hence the distance between the cars is a lot smaller than before. The price not. 

2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

Read on another forum that someone dropped a 991 X51 engine into their 981  I like.

2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

bluelines:

Read on another forum that someone dropped a 991 X51 engine into their 981  I like.

RUF offers the 3800S... 

http://www.ruf-automobile.de/index.php?id=88

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
 

SuzyF:

bluelines:

Read on another forum that someone dropped a 991 X51 engine into their 981  I like.

RUF offers the 3800S... 

http://www.ruf-automobile.de/index.php?id=88

Yes, it is nice! Saw it in Geneva in March.

Wonder if the RUF engine is street legal in Switzerland... hm? 

2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

bluelines:

SuzyF:

bluelines:

Read on another forum that someone dropped a 991 X51 engine into their 981  I like.

RUF offers the 3800S... 

http://www.ruf-automobile.de/index.php?id=88

Yes, it is nice! Saw it in Geneva in March.

Wonder if the RUF engine is street legal in Switzerland... hm? 

I have no idea why it shouldn't be legel.  The only problem With that car is its price. It's in the same pricerange than a 991 GT3.

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
 

bluelines:

Read on another forum that someone dropped a 991 X51 engine into their 981  I like.

Any links?
I guess thats not a PDK equipped one, because the necessary PDK software modifikation is complex and time and effort are huge to get a satisfying engine / PDK adjustment.

BTW: the 997.2 X51 engine does also fit into a 981.

jesse:

Any links?
I guess thats not a PDK equipped one, because the necessary PDK software modifikation is complex and time and effort are huge to get a satisfying engine / PDK adjustment.

BTW: the 997.2 X51 engine does also fit into a 981.

Check  http://www.teambgb.com and you find info on the 3.8 litre 991 engine swap. USD 19.5k. I live in the wrong country 

I

2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

bluelines:

RC:

The 911 has more power, better traction and the two rear seats.  Huge advantages in my book. 

The 981 has better fuel economy, better turn-in and two luggage compartments 

I think the main reason the 991 now seem so expense is the fact that the 981 has grown up. It no longer feels like a cheaper sibling to the 911 and hence the distance between the cars is a lot smaller than before. The price not. 

 

Forget about the additional luggage compartment. You can fit a lot of luggage in the rear of the 911 if you do not need the back seats. A lot (I fitted two large sized Samsonites there a couple of years ago).

Better turn-in? Well, my 991 Turbo S feels actually better (and lighter) than my Boxster S in turns, the AWS does magic. I actually have to learn to adapt the steering angle in sharp curves because when I drive the Turbo S for a while, the Boxster S feels different and I usually don't get the curve angle too well when I don't adapt. Today I almost landed on the opposite lane when I did a sharp turn in the Boxster, I drove the Turbo S shortly before that. Pretty weird feeling.

As to having grown up: Yes, I agree. The Boxster S has grown up but I just wish Porsche would have taken a different design approach for the rear. I just can't get used to it.  Sideline and front a marvelous design jobs, almost perfect now.

I kind of agree with Suzy:

1. Boxster with 280 hp

2. Boxster S with 340 hp

3. Boxster GT or GTS with 370 hp

4. Carrera with 410 hp (Cab, Coupe, 4 and Targa)

5. Carrera GTS with 440 hp (Cab, Coupe, 4 and Targa)

6. Carrera RS with GT3 derived engine and 470 hp

7. GT3 with 475 hp

8. GT3 RS with 500 hp

9. Turbo with 540 hp

10. Turbo S with 590 hp

11. GT2 with 610 hp (but 100 kg less weight, no AWD)

12. 960 with 620 hp

12. GT2 RS with 660 hp (GT3 derived engine with bi-turbo and 8000 rpm rev limit)

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Only GT3 and Turbo (S) have the AWS. Compared to 991 Carrera models, the turn-in of the Boxster is slightly better. 

I'm probably in the minority, but I like the rear of the 981 better than the 991, with the exception of the C4(S), because of the lightbar. It's the front of the 991 that I like more over the 981...   991 C4S is best looking Porsche ever (yes, even better looking than CGT), but that's just my personal taste of course. 

I think the overall shape of the 981 is very nice. It's a nimble little sportscar for a very reasonable pricetag. Probably the best value for money Porsche offers at this moment.

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
 

Not a fan of the Boxster rear because of that weird looking rear (the rear blinkers continuing into the rear wing lip). Without this overstyled design feature, the Boxster would look like a Mini Carrera GT. Maybe this was exactly the problem, so they had to mess it up.  I love the simple approach of the 991 but regarding the C4/S, the light bar looks great at night (really nice) but when it is turned off, it looks like that typical Carrera 4/S design feature and I never actually liked it. 

As you can see, tastes are very different...thanks god, otherwise it would get pretty boring. Just imagine we would agree on everything...boring.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

Forget about the additional luggage compartment. You can fit a lot of luggage in the rear of the 911 if you do not need the back seats. A lot (I fitted two large sized Samsonites there a couple of years ago).

This is true once you manage to get the luggage through the tiny gap between the folded seats with their high head rests and the B pillar. That is always a struggle to achieve without scraping interior trim. So basically the rear is for an assortment of soft bags, which is not always that practical.

"Form follows function"

reginos:

RC:

Forget about the additional luggage compartment. You can fit a lot of luggage in the rear of the 911 if you do not need the back seats. A lot (I fitted two large sized Samsonites there a couple of years ago).

This is true once you manage to get the luggage through the tiny gap between the folded seats with their high head rests and the B pillar. That is always a struggle to achieve without scraping interior trim. So basically the rear is for an assortment of soft bags, which is not always that practical.

I once fitted a (punctured) 997 Turbo rear wheel (rim plus tire) in the back, so...  It is a challenge but doable. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

reginos:

RC:

Forget about the additional luggage compartment. You can fit a lot of luggage in the rear of the 911 if you do not need the back seats. A lot (I fitted two large sized Samsonites there a couple of years ago).

This is true once you manage to get the luggage through the tiny gap between the folded seats with their high head rests and the B pillar. That is always a struggle to achieve without scraping interior trim. So basically the rear is for an assortment of soft bags, which is not always that practical.

I guess this is where the Cabriolet comes into its own.