Crown

RC:

Btw, I finally ordered the Turbo S yesterday. 

Congrats - now the wait starts again

TEE:

RC:

Btw, I finally ordered the Turbo S yesterday. 

Congrats - now the wait starts again

This is the toughest part... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

7:27 min. This is the Nordschleife time for a stock 991 Turbo S, achieved by a Porsche driver with street tires, no semi-slicks. I suppose Sport Auto would test this car at around 7.30 then, which quite good considering the time of the "old" 997 Turbo S, 7:44 min. The difference between the 997 Turbo and Turbo S on the Nordschleife was 3 seconds only, so the new 991 Turbo S is basically 11 seconds faster than the 997 Turbo S if we substract the 30 additional horses for the new Turbo S. Porsche has apparently made a huge progress regarding the chassis setup, AWD and PDK.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I doubt SportAuto will achieve that time. My guess is it will be something like 7:35. Not that it matters anyway,  just saying.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

I doubt SportAuto will achieve that time. My guess is it will be something like 7:35. Not that it matters anyway,  just saying.

Horst v. Saurma is usually 3-5 seconds behind the manufacturer claims, so I took the liberty to assume that he is only 3 seconds slower. 

The problem with the Supertest on the Nordschleife is...the driver. Yes, it is most of the time Horst v. Saurma but every driver has certain cars which aren't "his thing" and this is how a Supertest could be flawed. The quality of the driver will always remain an issue in the Supertest. Example: I am very good with AWD cars (I mean very good ) but I sometimes lack skills when it comes to RWD cars (the C63 really gave me a boost in skills again) and especially FWD cars. Drove a Golf GTi lately and really got issues with this car. When you get used to a certain type of car/drivetrain, well... 

I don't know what HvS drives privately but it would be interesting. Some have seen him very often in a Carrera GT but I have no knowledge of him owning one.

Like you said, it really doesn't matter for the 991 Turbo S since this is not your typical track car but it makes me feel good to know that I could, if I would...  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

991 Turbo/S Active Kinematics Control (by ZF Friedrichshafen AG...manufacturer of PDK too) 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

Like you said, it really doesn't matter for the 991 Turbo S since this is not your typical track car but it makes me feel good to know that I could, if I would...  

No you can't, because you're not Walter Röhrl. Even 250% visual acuity won't make up for that.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

RC:

Like you said, it really doesn't matter for the 991 Turbo S since this is not your typical track car but it makes me feel good to know that I could, if I would...  

No you can't, because you're not Walter Röhrl. Even 250% visual acuity won't make up for that.

You would be surprised , AWD cars are really my domain (the Nordschleife however is a lot about experience and I guess I would need at least a couple of dozen runs to actually come even close to this time)...but WR did not do the 7:27 in the 991 Turbo S as far as I heard. There are other fast test drivers too, WR is just the one everybody knows. 

I am curious about the tire choice for the 991 Turbo S: I've seen Michelin and Pirelli on the 991 Turbo S, the press photos seem to have the Pirelli only, so this seems to be the same story as always...testing with the Michelin, customers get the Pirelli.  Just kidding, I suppose it really depends...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

Rossi:

RC:

Like you said, it really doesn't matter for the 991 Turbo S since this is not your typical track car but it makes me feel good to know that I could, if I would...  

No you can't, because you're not Walter Röhrl. Even 250% visual acuity won't make up for that.

You would be surprised , AWD cars are really my domain (the Nordschleife however is a lot about experience and I guess I would need at least a couple of dozen runs to actually come even close to this time)...but WR did not do the 7:27 in the 991 Turbo S as far as I heard. There are other fast test drivers too, WR is just the one everybody knows. 

The new star test driver is Timo  Kluck, I think.

"Form follows function"

RC - While 0-200kmh or 0-300kmh are useful bragging figures (for those living in Germany),  I would assume that a more useful data point would be a car's 100-200kmh, 200-300kmh (thru the gears) performance. If one were driving on the Autobahn at elevated speeds and then commencing a race vs another car, isn't that what's most important/pertinent?

It would take a rather significant difference in performance for a vehicle to drop another if the one behind were even remotely drafting. My point - I just don't see how the new Turbo/S could beat a Panamera Turbo S in these types of races by any significant margin?  Since you already own the Panamera TS, isn't there a whole lot of luxury/comfort and better exhaust sound that you will give up for knowing that it's faster on the Nordschleife or from 0-300?

IMO, a garage queen should be a pure sports car - GT3, Lambo, Ferrari etc. Something that sounds better than a vacuum cleaner. Or a classic collectors type vehicle.

Just my 2 cents - enjoy.

mp:

RC - While 0-200kmh or 0-300kmh are useful bragging figures (for those living in Germany),  I would assume that a more useful data point would be a car's 100-200kmh, 200-300kmh (thru the gears) performance. If one were driving on the Autobahn at elevated speeds and then commencing a race vs another car, isn't that what's most important/pertinent?

It would take a rather significant difference in performance for a vehicle to drop another if the one behind were even remotely drafting. My point - I just don't see how the new Turbo/S could beat a Panamera Turbo S in these types of races by any significant margin?  Since you already own the Panamera TS, isn't there a whole lot of luxury/comfort and better exhaust sound that you will give up for knowing that it's faster on the Nordschleife or from 0-300?

IMO, a garage queen should be a pure sports car - GT3, Lambo, Ferrari etc. Something that sounds better than a vacuum cleaner. Or a classic collectors type vehicle.

Just my 2 cents - enjoy.

 

This is actually the problem I have...luxury/comfort...the Panamera Turbo S is fast and it feels like a 911 in curves but everything else is reminding me more of a Mercedes S-class than a sports car.

Speaking of the performance itself: I had a shootout with a 997 Turbo S (I know the driver, car is stock) and on the Autobahn, the car was aprox. 200-300 m ahead of me from 200 to 280 kph, so go figure... If the 997 Turbo S has this kind of performance, the 991 Turbo S won't stand behind. Furthermore, the 991 Turbo S weights 400 kg less than the PTS and no matter how good Porsche managed to "hide" the weight of the PTS, I can still feel it.

The new 991 Turbo S is going to sound much better than the old Turbo S, every single person who heard the exhaust sound, actually confirms this. A Ferrari or Lamborghini is out of the question because of my neighborhood and both companies usually do not offer any good lease offers (well, there is a good lease offer for the Gallardo but still...) and the next dealership/repair shop is over 70 km away (I have six Porsche dealerships in the same radius) and there isn't much of a choice. The GT3 is not good for winter driving over here, also I hate to have a next gen E63 AMG station wagon or M5 breathing down my neck on the Autobahn.  I won't forget the frustration of that Ferrari F430 Spider driver who couldn't pass me in my C63 AMG Coupe PP on the Autobahn. Regular cars are getting faster and faster and while there may not be many cars to be able to follow a GT3 on the track, the 0-200 kph performance of 11.3 seconds (I think) is not that spectacular for a modern sports car. Also, the 991 Turbo S has a similar track performance (if needed) as the GT3, according to rumors, both achieved identical times on the Norschleife (7:27). Only difference: The GT3 had semi-slicks, the Turbo S had street tires. So I guess, for street driving, the Turbo S offers the better package. 

Another last point (especially in comparison with the GT3): The 991 Turbo S feels very nimble according to various claims, the new four-wheel steering does the trick. So while the new 991 Turbo S doesn't quite feel like the new GT3, it feels at least as sporty as the old GT3, which is a milestone in 911 Turbo development. I have to rely on rumors and claims for those who drove the car but so far, it sounds quite impressive.

Of course I would love to have a GT3 in my garage too but I have to find the best compromise. I guess the 991 Turbo S just does the trick.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC, believe me I understand the thrill of speed, having modified and raced cars over the years.   But please be careful.  You are dealing with extremely powerful cars, and as good as any driver is, there is danger and serious risk involved...

Wonderbar:

RC, believe me I understand the thrill of speed, having modified and raced cars over the years.   But please be careful.  You are dealing with extremely powerful cars, and as good as any driver is, there is danger and serious risk involved...

Time for a visual - autobahn driving is not particularly dangerous as long as the traffic is light, good weather  and especially if you have 250% vision.

The more hp you have the more fun it is - Porsche turbos are made for this stuff 

Little clip from my journey last week.

http://youtu.be/yKAumS7Osi8

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3.9  GT2 2011 make over

Wonderbar:

RC, believe me I understand the thrill of speed, having modified and raced cars over the years.   But please be careful.  You are dealing with extremely powerful cars, and as good as any driver is, there is danger and serious risk involved...

Sydney, I understand very well what you mean, thanks for being concerned but there is nothing to worry here, honestly.   

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

TB993

Little clip from my journey last week.

http://youtu.be/yKAumS7Osi8

--

 

 

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

Nice one, the mezger in a Gt2 on its best

TB993tt:

Wonderbar:

RC, believe me I understand the thrill of speed, having modified and raced cars over the years.   But please be careful.  You are dealing with extremely powerful cars, and as good as any driver is, there is danger and serious risk involved...

Time for a visual - autobahn driving is not particularly dangerous as long as the traffic is light, good weather  and especially if you have 250% vision.

The more hp you have the more fun it is - Porsche turbos are made for this stuff 

Little clip from my journey last week.

http://youtu.be/yKAumS7Osi8

--

 

 

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

What a rocket

Rhodium , White , agate gray and GT silver  

thats the only  colors i can see work on the turbo s 

i cant see the turbo on Dark color like black or basalt black or dark blue 

red yellow  saph blue isnt me at all 

I stopped by my dealer this afternoon to talk about the new Turbo S.  This store happens to be one of the larger P stores in the area.  They have 3 confirmed presold already.  They said they should be getting 5 Turbo S units this year and I am welcome to take the #4 spot on the list.  This may be taking me closer towards the 15 model year but hard to say for sure.  If this is the case, then does anyone have any information on whether or not they are actually going to build the 15' Turbo S??    

Congrats on the car RC!

I always thought the 997tts did the Ring in 7,33 WR at the wheel?

Chris

2007 997.1 TT (#3)

1987 930 Slant 505

DaveChapin:

 

Turbo:  

  520 hp @ 6,000 - 6,500 rpm

  0-60: 3.0 sec (w/ Sport Chrono)

 

Turbo S: 

  560 hp @ 6,500 - 6,750 rpm

  0-60: 2.9 sec 

 

With overboost torque, 0-60 is pretty much the same. And we see the S's 560hp is only hit in a rpm range above the Turbo's 6,500 limit.  Thus I expect the power curve on the S to pretty much overlay the Turbo.  And if the extra 40 horses do not appear across the rpm spectrum, I for one would see much less reason to spring for the S.

 

Although maybe not a huge performance advantage, having a car that pulls hard to redline (rather than running out of breath a little) is much more entertaining and makes acceleration in the next gear after an upshift much sharper, since one usually shifts at a higher rpm.

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

DaveChapin:

 

Turbo:  

  520 hp @ 6,000 - 6,500 rpm

  0-60: 3.0 sec (w/ Sport Chrono)

 

Turbo S: 

  560 hp @ 6,500 - 6,750 rpm

  0-60: 2.9 sec 

 

With overboost torque, 0-60 is pretty much the same. And we see the S's 560hp is only hit in a rpm range above the Turbo's 6,500 limit.  Thus I expect the power curve on the S to pretty much overlay the Turbo.  And if the extra 40 horses do not appear across the rpm spectrum, I for one would see much less reason to spring for the S.

 

Getting the Turbo (not S) only makes sense if you really don't want/need PCCB. Otherwise, the Turbo S is actually a good offer, the net price difference for the 40 additional horses is aprox. 10-12k EUR because the Turbo S is very well optioned. The Sport Chrono package is a must have option on the Turbo.

There may not be much difference on paper but in reality, especially in the higher speed range, there is a substantial difference. From 0-300 kph, the difference is rumored to be over three seconds. From 0-200 kph, it is only half a second though, which isn't much but still...

Also keep in mind that tuning the new 991 Turbo will be extremely difficult (unless you find a way to use the OEM Turbo S software) because of the networking control units all over the car, so it is probably the better choice to get the most powerful version from the start.

It really depends...I was thinking about getting the Turbo instead of the Turbo S but in the end, the price difference (exluding PCCB from the Turbo order) was around 20k EUR and I said to myself, what the heck...looking for a good deal on a 200k EUR car, so I went for the Turbo S instead.

The Turbo however makes a lot of sense if you really want a "naked" car with Sport Chrono (must have option) only. Then, the price difference (aprox. 29k USD in the US) could be a good justification for some not to go for the Turbo S.

I'm still waiting to learn about the engine hardware differences between the Turbo and Turbo S but it seems as if the difference is software based only. Couldn't find any hardware differences and I really checked all official and unofficial sources. Still, don't keep your hopes up that a Turbo can easily be tuned to a Turbo S using the OEM software. Even if you manage to put your hands on the OEM software and get it on your ECU, other control units are pre-coded to the Turbo and it will take some decrypting and some hacking to make everything work...if it is going to work. The Mk2 997 Turbo was already a pain in the a.. to tune and it didn't get easier. With the inter-connectivity of all control units (PASM, PTM/PSM, AKC, PDK, etc.), it will be difficult (and dangerous) to mess with the software. It took Porsche a lot of effort to make all the software interact perfectly and if someone messes with it...well...not only the warranty could be hurt but certainly your life too. Just imagine the AKC reacts weird or the PSM/PSM...well...

Just yesterday, I discussed the new 991 Turbo S with a friend who isn't sure what he should do (he wants the Turbo S but this is a lot of money). We were discussing the possible facelift in two to three years or so and a possible power bump to 590 or even 600 hp but then, if you always wait for the latest model, you are going to end up waiting and waiting and waiting.

Speaking of color combinations: I may be at the factory in six weeks for some color combo analysis (this is when they are going to have different color combos available) and if permitted, I will take some photos. Maybe I can make it easier for some of your to make the right color combo decision. I ordered an Agate grey met. exteror and a Black/Carrera red Bi-color interior but I'm still not sure about this combo, the bright red could be a bit too much in the interior. I also haven't seen a black car yet.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

TB993tt:

 

Time for a visual - autobahn driving is not particularly dangerous as long as the traffic is light, good weather  and especially if you have 250% vision.

The more hp you have the more fun it is - Porsche turbos are made for this stuff 

Little clip from my journey last week.

http://youtu.be/yKAumS7Osi8

I am glad that you are one of these drivers who are careful when passing other cars, not passing them at full speed no matter what... Thanks for joining the video and you really have a fast car there.

A little hint though: Sometimes, some drivers from the middle lane move to the left lane without even looking when a car or truck from the far right lane makes a slight move and/or starts to use the turn signal. Caution...German drivers are used to high speed but sometimes they forget that some are faster than they are. I usually drive only very fast when I pass only one car, not several cars in a row and/or if there aren't cars driving on the far rigth/middle lane at the same time. I learned from experience...

Btw: Sometimes I get the feeling that some drivers move to the left lane on purpose, which is plain stupid. You should also always count in stupidity over here on the Autobahn. I assume you drive with your lights on, which is mandatory (not by law though) if you drive fast on the Autobahn.

Safe driving...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Budster:

Given that I've been a bit critical of the so called insider tips we get from time to time, I thought it only right to check whether I was wrong as I'd be the first person to apologise, so I've checked RC's "rumours", you know, the ones that sometimes come with one of those knowing little winks   :

1. "Power would be 530-560" - it's 520-560   Wrong

2. Acceleration would be below 3.0 secs - it's 3.1  Wrong

3. Power gap TT to TTS would be wider that 997 - its the same (30kW) - Wrong

4. TTS Vmax would be 320 - it's 318   Wrong

5. Acceleration 0-200 would be below 10s (and real life 9.5sec) - it's 10.3 Wrong

6. TTS will be Carrera GT performance, even 0-300 - no, it missed the 0-200 where it's 0.4sec slower - Wrong

7. LED lights would be standard. - RIGHT!!!

 

RC - 1/7 isn't too hot, but you ARE THE MAN when it comes to headlights! 

 

I think I said many times that I cannot post the precise numbers when and if I get ahold of them because I do not know if these numbers have been issued to certain persons only to find out who is leaking information. By posting the examples, you actually proved what I always do...posting "almost" numbers. I do not want to put anybody in trouble who is trying to be nice with me. For me, this is a hobby. For others, this is their job and their (financial) future.

I explained this over and over again but apparently... I am not a car journalist who earns his money with information and who may not care about exposing a source to get his headline. Look at the press embargo breaches from time to time, Porsche is not pleased about that.

A last word regarding the performance numbers: Wait until you see the first real world testing.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Buying a 991TT is NOT a rational decision. It is an emotional one. Therefore, you buy the fastest the S unless the difference in price is unmanageable in which case even buying the slower TT does not sense emotionally.

nberry:

Buying a 991TT is NOT a rational decision. It is an emotional one. Therefore, you buy the fastest the S unless the difference in price is unmanageable in which case even buying the slower TT does not sense emotionally.

  I got the Turbo S because anyone I asked advised against the regular Turbo for mostly the same reasons (real price difference considering standard options for Turbo S is minimal, real world performance will be better for the Turbo S than the naked numbers indicate, very unlikely chance to be able to tune Turbo to Turbo S power and so on).

Btw: Saw today an official document indicating that the 991 Turbo/Turbo S press information release was planned for end of August 2013. Not sure what happened here. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

nberry:

Buying a 991TT is NOT a rational decision. It is an emotional one. Therefore, you buy the fastest the S unless the difference in price is unmanageable in which case even buying the slower TT does not sense emotionally.

  I got the Turbo S because anyone I asked advised against the regular Turbo for mostly the same reasons (real price difference considering standard options for Turbo S is minimal, real world performance will be better for the Turbo S than the naked numbers indicate, very unlikely chance to be able to tune Turbo to Turbo S power and so on).

Btw: Saw today an official document indicating that the 991 Turbo/Turbo S press information release was planned for end of August 2013. Not sure what happened here. 

Why dis Posche decide to reveal in May instead of August?

BY ramping up production early, you get the ROI sooner.

is the USA configrator going crazy ??

the option prices went 100% plus 

every thing is doubled in price 

sulaiman:

is the USA configrator going crazy ??

 

the option prices went 100% plus 

every thing is doubled in price 

 

 

Seems everything fine to me. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)