Crown

Release: Nov 2013

Price:137,000

450 hp+, Rear Wheel steering, close to a cup car.

That's all I know, we will see.....

I was hoping for a release at the Geneva Motor Show in March.

Rear Wheel steering? I thought that was only for the Turbo...

2011 Porsche Carrera 4S Platinum Silver
2013 Porsche Panamera GTS Basalt Black

“The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” 
― Bob Marley

I believe Nov 13 is the press launch for the RS. The GT3 is coming March. The photoshoot with white launch car was completed at Estoril. Please correct me if I am wrong :)

ag23:

Rear Wheel steering? I thought that was only for the Turbo...

Nope, new GT3 will have it too and yes, Kreso is right, introduction will be much earlier 2013, NOT November.

First comes the GT3, then the Turbo, then the GT3 RS. Oh...the Targa somewhere in between. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Boxster Coupe GTS:
"The Mezger engine lives on! New 991 RSR and 991 Cup car will use the classic water-cooled, non-DFI motor."

-- Chris Harris (@harrismonkey)

Does this mean the Mezger will have to be homologated in at least the road 991 RS if not the normal GT3?

Article about 40y Carrera RS from Auto, Motor u. Sport 29.11.2012:

in short form:

- 991 GT3 will be at least as fast as 997 GT3 RS 3.8

- the difference between GT3 and GT3 RS will be growing

- 991 GT3 RS is coming in 2014

- PDK for 991 GT3 would be fantastic and "pure"

Blueflame

Boxster Coupe GTS:
"The Mezger engine lives on! New 991 RSR and 991 Cup car will use the classic water-cooled, non-DFI motor."

-- Chris Harris (@harrismonkey)

These are race cars. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

boytronic:

Boxster Coupe GTS:
"The Mezger engine lives on! New 991 RSR and 991 Cup car will use the classic water-cooled, non-DFI motor."

-- Chris Harris (@harrismonkey)

Does this mean the Mezger will have to be homologated in at least the road 991 RS if not the normal GT3?

There were some thoughts to use the GT3 RS for homologation but I'm not sure if this is viable, cost-wise. This would mean that the RS gets a Mezger derived type of engine and the GT3 doesn't. Let's see how this is going to play out for Porsche. In my opinion, this could threaten GT3 sales but on the other hand Porsche could make it interesting by putting a 30k price difference between the GT3 and the GT3 RS, which could probably work.

The easiest way for Porsche: They build the GT3 and GT3 RS with DFI engines and a necessary amount of homologation vehicles with different engines. Not sure about the current rules though.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Hello RC, Normal 991 GT3 will use the 9A1 engine - a disgrace for the GT3. I know from sources that this the new GT3 will not be able ti run as long on a race track then the outgoing with.

Abou the 991 GT3RS its too early to talk about..but the fac tthe Porsche is still using the Mezger engine for its race cars..tells us all- or?

It clearly tells us that the 9a1 engine is not mader for racing. And we alll know, if Porsche could save a buck somewhere..they would have done it by installig the 9A1 engine in a 991 RSR..but its engine would kreep after 1 hour...

RC:

Boxster Coupe GTS:
"The Mezger engine lives on! New 991 RSR and 991 Cup car will use the classic water-cooled, non-DFI motor."

-- Chris Harris (@harrismonkey)

These are race cars. 

In order for there to be a race car, there must be a road car for homologation (unless a waiver is given)

RC:

boytronic:

Boxster Coupe GTS:
"The Mezger engine lives on! New 991 RSR and 991 Cup car will use the classic water-cooled, non-DFI motor."

-- Chris Harris (@harrismonkey)

Does this mean the Mezger will have to be homologated in at least the road 991 RS if not the normal GT3?

There were some thoughts to use the GT3 RS for homologation but I'm not sure if this is viable, cost-wise. This would mean that the RS gets a Mezger derived type of engine and the GT3 doesn't. Let's see how this is going to play out for Porsche. In my opinion, this could threaten GT3 sales but on the other hand Porsche could make it interesting by putting a 30k price difference between the GT3 and the GT3 RS, which could probably work.

The easiest way for Porsche: They build the GT3 and GT3 RS with DFI engines and a necessary amount of homologation vehicles with different engines. Not sure about the current rules though.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Here are the rules:

2.1.2 -  Eligibility criteria of a "LM" GTE Grand Touring car are made out by the ACO.

2.1.3 -  The "LM" GTE Grand Touring car must meet a minimum of the following criteria :

a/ To be regularly produced by a manufacturer approved by ACO ;

•  A regular production implies a permanent implementation of the means required to produce a minimum of 1 car per week for the "big manufacturers" and one car per month to the "small manufacturers". If the production is not respected, the ACO will suspend the homologation of the car the year after. The suspension of the homologation will cease once the production delay has been made up. It will be permitted to compete with the car as soon as a minimum of 100 road cars for the "big manufacturers" and 25 road cars for the "small manufacturers" will be produced.

b/ To have a launch campaign : exhibitions in motor show, tests with journalists, leaflets with the technical specifications of the car…

c/ To have a  commercial network at its disposal which provide an after-sales service. An exemplary of the spare parts' catalogue and the

maintenance manual must be delivered to the ACO during the homologation of the car.

d/ To be equipped with an engine used in a production car and made in a quantity of at least 300  units.

e/ To have a "Full type CEE" homologation or equivalent for United States or Japan. For the

small manufacturers an official "Low Volume" homologation for the model of car will be accepted.

•  Vehicles with a "Low-Volume" type approval which have not undergone frontal crashtesting must comply with the F.I.A. frontal

crash-test defined in article 258A-15, with the weight of the series vehicle reduced by 5%, or that required for the full type approval (EU

or the USA or Japan).

f/ The  fuel tank of the homologated road car cannot contain less than  50 litres.

Thanks guys. So:

I'll be very disappointed if Porsche do that for 2 reasons:

• It will show them as incapable of producing a strong up to date race engine, as opposed to their competitors that come up with solutions all the time.
• The traditional link between road cars and motorsport that Porsche managed to build since the 60s will wane and fade.

How can Porsche management appear so distant from such issues?

Anyway, I hope monkey's piece of info proves inaccurate.

"Form follows function"

Rs spyder racing engine was dfi and proved itself very strong. Don't think there is the reason to worry. 

--

sportcars-history.com

The block of the Mezger engine is reputed to be the strong component for racing. I've read that it cannot be combined easily (economically) with a DFI cylinder head. Hence, the rumoured decision to drop DFI if they use the old block. 

But again the Mezger  engine cannot be combined with PDK, which means that the road going base car (GT3 RS) for the RSR,  will be manual, at a time when all competitors use modern DCTs for their road cars.

"Form follows function"

reginos:

I'll be very disappointed if Porsche do that for 2 reasons:

• It will show them as incapable of producing a strong up to date race engine, as opposed to their competitors that come up with solutions all the time.
• The traditional link between road cars and motorsport that Porsche managed to build since the 60s will wane and fade.

How can Porsche management appear so distant from such issues?

Anyway, I hope monkey's piece of info proves inaccurate.

Hi Reginos,

Fully agree..but Porsche Management is very far from the customers..at least since VW took over.

But a few others points:

1) Yes, the RS Sypder was a succesful new DFI engine - luckily it will be used in the 918. However, it wouldnt fit in the 991 so ..Neverthless, I agree, its sign of incapability..- nevertheless I believe that the 991 RSR with Mezger could still be a serious contender..what if it wins in Le Mans next year? All critics will be gone in one second

2) What is really unclear to me is how it will work with the regulations...but reading the regulations I think there is no must for Porsche to use the same engine...and if so they could do it with the 991 GT3 RS

3) PDK on Mezger - correct - but a sequential gearbox has been developped for this years Le Mans race. I suspect that it will be taken over to the 991 RSR. In fact this years Le Mans problems were mainly due to the gearbox. Maybe we will see sequential gearbox in 991 GT3 RS.,.but I would doubt it..prohibitive cost.

Anyway, Porsche just killed off the GT3..my advice to all 997 GT3 - GT2 owners can only be - dont sell your car...it weil become a future classic. I will not sell mine..thats clear..

blueflame:

Article about 40y Carrera RS from Auto, Motor u. Sport 29.11.2012:

in short form:

- 991 GT3 will be at least as fast as 997 GT3 RS 3.8

- the difference between GT3 and GT3 RS will be growing

- 991 GT3 RS is coming in 2014

- PDK for 991 GT3 would be fantastic and "pure"

Blueflame

A quick translation of the Andreas Preuninger interview...

"With full conviction: The next RS is wow!"

 

Andreas Preuninger, Project Manager GT models, on the philosophy and the future of GT3 and RS...

 

What comes after the 911 GT3 RS 4.0?

 

Preuninger: The 4.0 is to be regarded as a special model in which many racing parts are mounted. We were sure to have pulled out all the stops to send worthy of the series 997 in retirement. But a year later we had new ideas on how to make it even better, even faster.

 

And 2013, which can be found in the new GT3?

 

Preuninger: Our philosophy is to reach the next GT3-based model the performance of the previous RS. At 991 GT3, we focus initially on the RS 3.8.

 

Is designed to parallel the very next RS model?

 

Preuninger: First of all, the GT3 is a fascinating sports cars. In general, the development of a GT3 with a strong forward runs for RS-version based on it. In the current case, the task is more difficult, because we had a full model change. Moreover, the differentiation between GT3 and RS is always great. Until next RS is still a bit to go (Editor's Note: 2014), but I can already say with full conviction: The RS is just "wow".

 

Is from the rear engine concept actually get so much?

 

Preuninger: The technology goes on. At 991 GT3 we have intensively discussed the points, how much and what electronic systems can be used in the car without compromising the unfiltered driving experience. It is extremely important to maintain the high emotionality in GT3.

 

For example, with rear axle steering and PDK?

 

Preuninger: If the foster system dynamics without imposing on drivers, they come. Every technical detail but it must be a clear win for the car without compromising its identity. And if we were to offer a PDK gearbox for, then it would be fantastic spot to fit a purist concept like the 911 GT3.

 

Plays the racing during development also play a role?

 

Preuninger: Absolutely. RS models are the homologation in motorsport. In the development of road and racing cars, the same people are involved - this is a symbiosis for decades.

 

(Source: Auto Motor und Sport, 29 November 2012)

 

...thanks to blueflame and all due credit to AMS and Andreas Preuninger!

GTlover:

reginos:

I'll be very disappointed if Porsche do that for 2 reasons:

• It will show them as incapable of producing a strong up to date race engine, as opposed to their competitors that come up with solutions all the time.
• The traditional link between road cars and motorsport that Porsche managed to build since the 60s will wane and fade.

How can Porsche management appear so distant from such issues?

Anyway, I hope monkey's piece of info proves inaccurate.

Hi Reginos,

Fully agree..but Porsche Management is very far from the customers..at least since VW took over.

But a few others points:

1) Yes, the RS Sypder was a succesful new DFI engine - luckily it will be used in the 918. However, it wouldnt fit in the 991 so ..Neverthless, I agree, its sign of incapability..- nevertheless I believe that the 991 RSR with Mezger could still be a serious contender..what if it wins in Le Mans next year? All critics will be gone in one second

2) What is really unclear to me is how it will work with the regulations...but reading the regulations I think there is no must for Porsche to use the same engine...and if so they could do it with the 991 GT3 RS

3) PDK on Mezger - correct - but a sequential gearbox has been developped for this years Le Mans race. I suspect that it will be taken over to the 991 RSR. In fact this years Le Mans problems were mainly due to the gearbox. Maybe we will see sequential gearbox in 991 GT3 RS.,.but I would doubt it..prohibitive cost.

Anyway, Porsche just killed off the GT3..my advice to all 997 GT3 - GT2 owners can only be - dont sell your car...it weil become a future classic. I will not sell mine..thats clear..

In answer to your posts above:

1. It is important to remember that the outgoing 997 RSR was relatively competitive because it was given important performance breaks (both in Aero and engine) by the ACO. The question therefore is whether the 991 will be competitive without performance breaks? Whilst the new chassis and aerodynamics will no doubt be a marked improvement, questions must still be asked about continuing to race an engine that is now a little long in the tooth.

It really is not just a question of whether the 991 will be competitive (relatively) in 2013, but also whether there is room for development in 2014 and onward. I suspect that 2014 just might see a new engine being placed in the 991 RSR .

As for Le Mans: I will be very happy to eat my words and detractions. May 2013 be the start of a new winning streak for Porsche at Le Mans!!!

3. The 997RSR was already racing with a sequential gearbox for ages.

Hi spyder,

thanks for the info..

PS: in 2012 Porsche used a new type of gearbox for the RSR..but I agree to all of your other points..will the 991 be succesful or not? But, look, when the 458 came out on the racetrack it seemed that the 997 RSR would stand no chance..now the gap is almost down to 0.

So, lets hope..

GTlover - The gap is almost down to zero because Porsche was given substantial performance breaks. If it were not for the performance breaks (larger air restrictors, less weight, bigger front lip, etc.), the 997RSR would have been far behind the F458.

Hope must always be the last thing to die, but I must confess that I will be more than a little disappointed if the 991 RSR will have to rely on performance breaks in order to be competitive.

GT3 Cup Teaser:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uco99ZbcGM4

Blueflame

Wolfgang Hatz quizzed by Harris on diesel V8 Panameras and the return of the Mezger flat-six in the RSR:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=26798

Chris Harris: Lovely RSR photos just shown. Is it true that the RSR and Cup car will usethe old Mezger engine and not the new DFI motor?
Wolfang Hatz: [Grimacing] "I know where the photos were taken and I don't know how they did it. We want to participate next year [the next day Manthey were announced as running factory 991 RSRs at Le Mans 2013] and, yes, the RSR and Cup will use the old engine. It is very reliable and strong and it does a good job and in the Cup it will be 3.8 litres. It was an easy decision."

It seems Metzger will be with racing 911 for a while longer... different engines for GT3 and GT3 RS ?!?

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” -- George Bernard Shaw

So I assume GT3 with new 9A1 engine, dfi and pdk and GT3 RS with old Mezger engine and manual gearbox? Seems most plausible to me... 

The GT3 will lose its motorsport connection and hence the charisma it has carried since 1999.

It will be just a "Carrera Sport".

"Form follows function"

2013 Porsche 991 GT3 Cup preview video + pics...

2013 Porsche 991 GT3 Cup preview -- Video Link

...did you spot the paddle-shift gearbox with a clutch pedal?

2013 Porsche 911 GT3 Cup officially unveiled...

Porsche has officially unveiled the 2013 911 GT3 Cup at the company's "Night of Champions” celebration.