Crown

Guys - just creating a new thread for people to chat about the forthcoming F1 season

Some major changes planned for this year: no refuelling during the race but pit stops will remain for tyre changes.

The new points scoring system will (hopefully) keep races interesting till nearer the finish line - since the points scored for the higher positions is greater than before - so the incentive to keep racing till the end is greater:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8407119.stm

I am really looking forward to seeing the close contests between the best drivers:

Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton, Button, Vettel, Massa, Kubica (includes 4 current/former World Champions )

Plus there is a very solid 2nd tier of Rosberg, Webber, Barrichello, Trulli who will all compete very hard too

And a 3rd tier of Kovaleinen, Glock

A lot will depend on how the 2010 cars compare with each other: one would expect McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes to be at the front of the grid  Whether Red Bull (which will use Renault engines) and Renault itself will be as competitive as the leading cars is still uncertain

Ferrari's mindgames against Mercedes & Schumi begin:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8456770.stm

I think within each team: Hamilton will narrowly outshine Button, Schumacher will comfortably outperform Rosberg, Alonso will narrowly outshine Massa, Vettel will narrowly outperform Webber, Trulli will comfortably outperform Kovaleinen. There will be some interesting contests to see

It would have been even better if Raikkonen had found a competitve seat in order to stay in F1 rather than leaving for the WRC. I hope he can find a way back into a strong F1 team for 2011. IMHO he shouldn't take this for granted. (Getting into a F1 team won't be the problem but getting into a properly competitive car is another issue altogether  The seats at Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes are already filled )

It has been a long time since we have had this many superb drivers competing so closely with each other... it's a mouthwatering F1 season in prospect   

Alonso on the prospect of competing with Schumi again:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8459061.stm

Alonso video interview:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8459401.stm

Kovaleinen made me laugh the other day. He said (paraphrasing him) that we haven't seen the best of him yet. Huh? He had a race seat at McLaren for 2 years - if his best is yet to come, what on earth was he waiting for ?  What an empty, boneheaded comment from a 3rd tier driver who will unfortunately amount to nothing much in F1 IMO.

Plus, with so many smaller teams, there are a lot of inexperienced drivers who may cause unnecessary accidents/drama: Hulkenberg, Sutil (who IMHO is not that bad for a newish driver), Liuzzi, Buemi (another young guy with potential IMHO), di Grassi and the rookie we are all eagerly waiting to see - Bruno Senna  To have the name 'Senna' back in F1 is a dream come true

And there are still 5 race seats that have not yet been confirmed yet

Of course, the other major issue is which of the new teams will fail to make it to the grid. I expect Lotus and Virgin Racing (formerly Manor F1) to be there in Bahrain. But Campos Meta and US F1 may not manage it. Poor Bruno Senna may end up waiting another year if Campos Meta runs out of funding  

At least, if US F1 doesn't make it, we will see the return of Sauber  (And why is the team still called BMW Sauber even though BMW has left F1? ) But F1 is gradually being populated by new teams that we have never heard of. I miss having BMW and Toyota on the grid 

Other unknowns - will we see Grosjean, Kobayashi, Nakajima, Sato, Davidson and other new(ish) guys in F1 in one of the vacant seats?  I would like to see Kobayashi in F1 in 2010. He was a superb new talent who didn't look out of his depth in 2009. The rest don't belong in F1 IMHO. Also, where is Fisichella? After filling in for Massa at Ferrari - and achieving nothing at all except being able to tell his kids that he once drove for Ferrari - he has lost his place at Force India as well. It was a crazy move - and he did it just after getting one good result for Force India - both he and Force India went backwards after that move. Is his career now over?   Looks like it to me unless he can get a race seat at one of the new teams...

Announced driver line ups:

http://www.formula1.com/teams_and_drivers/teams/

Meanwhile, Bernie Ecclestone wants shortcuts in F1 races:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8458975.stm

Is he going senile? Or is he already there?

Plus the Singapore race-fixing scandal continues to be a dark cloud over F1 since the FIA is appealing against the French court decision to quash the life ban and 5 year ban on Briatore and Symonds respectively. IMHO it would leave a very bad taste in the mouth if cheats like that are allowed back into F1.

Hope we all enjoy a very special F1 season this year  My mouth is watering already - Bahrain cannot come soon enough!

But the real sensation is that Schumi is back to duel with Alonso - they have unfinished business to resolve  Plus with Hamilton, Vettel, Massa, Kubica and Button there too - this season promises to be one of the best ever

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RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

I really enjoy reading Andrew Benson's blog on the BBC F1 website - IMHO he's a very perceptive commentator.

1) The challenges facing Schumi:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/12/schumacher_fighting_the_sands.html

This passage particularly stands out in the 1st blog:

".... But the one that perhaps stands out most of all was during the 2005 Japanese Grand Prix, when Alonso passed Schumacher around the outside at Suzuka's 130R, one of the most demanding corners in F1.

As he swept around the outside of the Ferrari, Alonso's speed at the apex of the corner was 208mph. Knowing that any contact between the two cars would have resulted in an accident that at least one of them may well not have escaped unhurt, the bravery required to pull that off against a man who had built his reputation on bullying and intimidation was immense - the more so given that, two years before, Schumacher had edged Alonso on to the grass at Silverstone at more than 180mph.

But it was not so much the move itself that was telling - once Alonso was alongside and going faster, Schumacher had no choice but to give way - as the mindset that allowed him to think about trying it.

Asked about it a few weeks later, Alonso told the veteran F1 journalist Nigel Roebuck: "At times like that, I always remember that Michael has two kids." ... "

A telling insight IMO into the psychology of Alonso in his brilliant battle against Schumi

2) Whether Button's move to McLaren will prove to be a mistake:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/11/jenson_buttons_decision_to_sig.html

Very interesting passage:

"... Complicating the issue at McLaren next year will be that Hamilton and Button like very different things from their racing cars.

Hamilton likes a rear end that moves around a lot - he uses the rapid change of direction that provides to pitch him quickly into the corner and get him pointing in the right direction for the exit as soon as possible.

It is an unusual style, for the simple reason that it makes the car unstable - but Hamilton does not worry about that, he simply corrects the slide he knows is coming and carries on.

Button's style is completely different. He likes a stable rear end, using subtly changing pressure on throttle, brake and steering to alter the car's direction. Give him a loose rear end, and he struggles.

Can McLaren provide two cars set up in such different ways? Even if they can, will they want to, given the two varying development paths to which each approach may lead? ..."

Also, on Raikkonen:

"... As Raikkonen's manager David Robertson put it to me this morning: "It wasn't in his interests to race for the sum they were offering."

For now, Raikkonen and Robertson are viewing it as a year away from F1 to have some fun in the world rally championship. But, unless Raikkonen shifts his expectations, it may well turn out to be a rather more permanent arrangement than that.

F1 might not miss Raikkonen's android-on-Mogadon news conferences, but the man behind the wheel is another matter.

When he is in the mood, Raikkonen is one of the very finest drivers in F1 - arguably, with Hamilton and Alonso, one of only three who can win a race in a car that does not deserve to.

For a driver of that calibre to slip out of F1 in such an unsatisfactory manner is sad indeed. Hubris can be a dangerous thing. ..."

3) About Toyota's exit from F1:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/11/where_does_toyota_pullout_leav.html

4) About the Briatore verdict:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/01/briatore_verdict_leaves_f1_in.html

This passage IMHO is spot on:

"...The reason is that, in the Mosley years, F1 operated under a climate of fear - the general belief was that it was better to swallow whatever punishment Mosley came up with because by challenging it you risked it getting even worse.

This was certainly what was behind McLaren's decision not to challenge the absurdly large $100m fine levied on them for their role in 2007's 'Spy-gate' saga, and which many in F1 believed was rooted in personal vindictiveness on the part of Mosley towards McLaren boss Ron Dennis. Had they fought it, they worried Mosley would ban them from the sport, which would effectively have shut the team down..."

And about Piquet Jnr:

"... In its justification for not punishing Piquet, the FIA said that it wanted whistleblowers to come forward without fear of prosecution. But it seems to me that this is something different from that.

This is not an innocent bystander coming forward to reveal a sinister plot, but fearing for the repercussions for himself. This is the man who committed the offence in the first place being let off in favour of punishing the two people who, depending on who you believe, either asked him to do it, or went along with his idea. Or, by Briatore's account, knew nothing about it at all.

As Renault's new number one driver, Robert Kubica, said at the time: "Normally if you go to the police and you say you killed someone but you know someone else who killed three people, you will still go to jail." ..."

Surely Piquet Jnr's career in F1 is finished for ever. He is now in Nascar - with Juan Pablo Montoya - does anyone remember him?  

5) When Schumi nearly returned to Ferrari:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/07/when_lewis_hamilton_made_his.html

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RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Interesting article from the BBC F1 website on the main regulation changes in 2010:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8461293.stm

 
RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

thanks for posting, need some clarifications still. But the refueling changes are strange IMO. With heavy cars people will drive more conservatively and try to preserve tires. Tire strategy becomes way more critical and IMHO this new change does not promote full racing at 100%.. just my 0.02.

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
_____________________________________________________________________
1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)

easy_rider911:

Kovaleinen made me laugh the other day. He said (paraphrasing him) that we haven't seen the best of him yet. Huh? He had a race seat at McLaren for 2 years - if his best is yet to come, what on earth was he waiting for ?  What an empty, boneheaded comment from a 3rd tier driver who will unfortunately amount to nothing much in F1 IMO.

 

Well, we all know that McLaren was a one man team  and Kovalainen  was mistreated by the management. Not surprising that he feels relieved after leaving that place.

So how will the fuel rule make people go all out, ie exciting racing? I can see everyone preserve fuel and driving on cruise control..... I see many close finishes but only time will tell. Let's hope the # of drivers running out of fuel is limited. 

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
_____________________________________________________________________
1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)

easy_rider911:

Hamilton likes a rear end that moves around a lot - he uses the rapid change of direction that provides to pitch him quickly into the corner and get him pointing in the right direction for the exit as soon as possible.

It is an unusual style, for the simple reason that it makes the car unstable - but Hamilton does not worry about that, he simply corrects the slide he knows is coming and carries on.

That passage caught my eye. Only the very best skilled in car control will prefer a 'loose' car, I think among the current crop, he is the only one who prefer a loose car. It's a true reflection of a driver's skill, same thing can be said for a fast rain driver, in such conditions the cream rises to the top. If memory serves me well, Senna was the other who likes to drive such a setup, and he is the best in car control and absolutely unstoppable in rain.

Whoopsy:

easy_rider911:

Hamilton likes a rear end that moves around a lot - he uses the rapid change of direction that provides to pitch him quickly into the corner and get him pointing in the right direction for the exit as soon as possible.

It is an unusual style, for the simple reason that it makes the car unstable - but Hamilton does not worry about that, he simply corrects the slide he knows is coming and carries on.

That passage caught my eye. Only the very best skilled in car control will prefer a 'loose' car, I think among the current crop, he is the only one who prefer a loose car. It's a true reflection of a driver's skill, same thing can be said for a fast rain driver, in such conditions the cream rises to the top. If memory serves me well, Senna was the other who likes to drive such a setup, and he is the best in car control and absolutely unstoppable in rain.

You forgot Schumacher who has had one of the most challenging driving habits, driving with a loose tail and directing the car by applying brake and throttle. Some assume that he developed that skill in the Group C Sauber-Mercedes but I do assume that he simply carried over his driving habits from the karting era. A much more complex driving style that is different and more intuitive than the regular pattern of performance driving. Great description at the last paragraphs here.

easy_rider911:

 

" Alonso will narrowly outshine Massa"

 ...you mean the Alonso, who didn´t manage to outshine a rookie? You mean the Alonso who complained like a baby when Fisichella did not let him pass by (GP Canada 2005), You mean the Alonso who needs perfect circumstances working for him and most of all a perfect car? You mean the Alonso who won 2 championships mainly by picking up points from drivers (Raikkonen & Schu) who technically failed to finish their race? You mean the Alonso who suspects a conspiracy behind each corner....? 

Unless Massa did not fully recover, he will make Alonso life very difficult. And we now what then begins...complains, politicy and stories, also with help of the spanish press.

Alonso is a great talented guy, he could stand for an era... but he failed to do so by now. Lot of parallels to Alain Prost. 

The below picture of Alonso first Ferrari apperance, can be a good symbol of Alonso/Ferraris partnership... stranded.

Ferdie:

You forgot Schumacher who has had one of the most challenging driving habits, driving with a loose tail and directing the car by applying brake and throttle. Some assume that he developed that skill in the Group C Sauber-Mercedes but I do assume that he simply carried over his driving habits from the karting era. A much more complex driving style that is different and more intuitive than the regular pattern of performance driving. Great description at the last paragraphs here.

Haha, I actually didn't forget about him, I just didn't know how to classified him :)

When I talked about 'current', I mean the current crop of young guns, Schummy is the very best of the last generation and he un-retire to drive this year. Obviously he is not dead yet so I can't group him with Senna :)

I think he is the best World Champion, but only second in pure driving talent, that title belongs to Senna. Hard to compare the 2 as Senna is already dead when Schummy enters his prime. But their respective skills can be observed from watching racing footages especially those rain races,  seeing how Senna can magically race up the field in a non-competitive car to beat all the superior cars.

In a perfect world, all F1 races will be held on an inch of standing water, let the cream rise to the top.

Whoopsy:

Haha, I actually didn't forget about him, I just didn't know how to classified him :)

I think he is the best World Champion, but only second in pure driving talent, that title belongs to Senna. Hard to compare the 2 as Senna is already dead when Schummy enters his prime.

Okay, now I understand.

Apart from his sheer speed, what Senna always stood for is his impressive character off the track.

Ferdie:

Apart from his sheer speed, what Senna always stood for is his impressive character off the track.

Yeah, he was a lunatic, not exactly an example of a well balanced person. But I guess that even when he did all those dirty manouvers on the track he thought God was with him or something like that. Anyway, since Senna is dead people tends to overreact when someone cricises him, but those are just my 2 cents.

Senna was immortalised when he was killed (contradiction in terms and highly ironic sentence indeed). I think that Alain Prost was the better driver though!

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FERRARI RULES!!!

I won't call Prost a better driver, or a even close in skills or have better character.

Prost pioneered the crash your rival move when he intentionally try to crash Senna out of the Suzuka race in 89, he was lucky that the FIA president at the time was a French and protected him. A year later Senna returned the favor and let Prost taste his own medicine.

He is also the first diva in F1 teams, demanding himself to be the prefer #1 driver, his diva-ish behavior also got him fired from the Ferrari team in 91, not to mention he stole Mansell's race car in 1990 and forced Mansell out of WIlliams in 93. He also he block Senna from joining him in Williams in 93.

Some kind of character off the track.

Prost only won 4 world champions because of superior cars, he is nothing if he doesn't have a top car. Senna on the other hand made wonders out of junk cars, he was right on Prost's tail in 93 despite the McLaren being miles behind WIlliams. Even Alonso could squeeze a sub-par Renault to some half decent results.

Despite all that had happened between Prost and Senna, Senna actual forgave Prost and made up with him, now who is the better character, Prost who keep offending people or Senna the one who forgives?

There is really no contest, Senna is the best driver ever, Schummy come close.

Whoopsy I simply disagree! Senna was just as cut throat as Prost. He punched poor Irvine for having the audacity to overtake the master... (what a wanker!). He beat Prost once and was beaten once, both driving the same car. He also though that everyone was against him and he had the God given right to win at any cost. Prost was the more mature driver, the driver that could be both blindigly fast when needed but also preserve his tyres for a whole race distance. For these reasons he was voted as the best F1 driver of the past century!

For me the top drivers of the modern era:

Lauda, Prost and Schumacher in alphabetical order!

I place Senna on the same level as Piquet (father of course) but Senna is more adored and revered because of his tragic death and his mysterious personality.

Funny,

I didn´t think we´d have such diverging opinions. It is a bit odd to rate Prost higher than Senna. I agree with Whoopsy that drivers such as Senna or Schumacher show their driver´s skill also and especially in the rain and Prost has always been inferior to the former in that respect. Whether one likes Senna´s character on and off the track remains a personal decision and I understand if someone would not appreciate his behaviour in certain circumstances, he certainly had lots of character though that a few other drivers lack. There has been a poll amongst F1 drivers, managers and offcials which Senna won in front of Schumacher and Jim Clark. After all, what do these guys know...

Don't forget that Senna was godified because of his premature, tragic death, so this vote could have been a sign of respect. Obviously no one claims that Senna was a fluke (that would have been funny indeed) but personally I respect the other drivers' attributes a bit more than Senna's extraordinary talent and sublime car control in the wet,so I place them slightly above him.

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It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

I think we can already close the debate about who's the most talented guy in F1. No only he's probably the best driver out there, but he's also a great engineer. He is , of course, Mr. Lewis Hamilton:

“I spend a lot of time with my aerodynamicists, questioning them, and I’m sure they look at me and go, ‘He’s just a driver, what’s he talking about?’” smiles Lewis. “But I have a proven understanding of the engineering of my car. This year, I was responsible for one of the upgrades that brought us three points of downforce in Spa. We didn’t really perform that weekend, but it stayed on the carfor the rest of the year and it helped. It was something I forced and got put on the car, and it was better, and it was great. You know, I was going to put my signature on it...”

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=122297&st=0&start=0

Hamilton? I counter that with Jaime Algersuary as the best ever... lol

I just can't stand Hamilton.  He is like a young Andre Agassi.  Hopefully he will also mature like Agassi did (minus the wigs and the drugs ).  I also hope Button beats him this year!  Actually I liken the Hamilton/Button partnership this year to the Senna/Prost one.  One is fast, aggressive and the other is smooth but still fast. 

As for the best ever, I have to say Senna/Schumacher.  Hard to split them, but Senna does have that magic in qualifying.

I just read that Pedro De La Rosa and Kamui Kobayashi are both contracted to drive with Sauber in 2010. I imagine this is only on the assumption that one of the 4 new teams - Lotus, Virgin Racing, Campos Meta or US F1 - drops out allowing the Sauber F1 team to fill the vacated places on the grid.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8467514.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8417603.stm

I'm pleased that these guys are still in F1. De La Rosa has many years experience testing for McLaren so he will be able to help Sauber develop a decent car. Kobayashi has plenty of raw talent for racing - he has guts and isn't intimidated by the famous drivers competing with him. I liked his attitude in the few races he competed in for Toyota during 2009.

So, that leaves an interesting question: what future does Nick Heidfeld still have in F1?

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RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Hasn't Sauber got Toyota's place?

By the way, given that the team is going to use Ferrari engines I hope that PDLR can bring useful infornation about the new McLaren and its MB engine to the Scuderia.

The team will still be called BMW Sauber ( they haven't  changed their official entry name) but they will use Ferrari engines! Very weird way for BMW to have a name in F1.

easy_rider911:

I just read that Pedro De La Rosa and Kamui Kobayashi are both contracted to drive with Sauber in 2010. I imagine this is only on the assumption that one of the 4 new teams - Lotus, Virgin Racing, Campos Meta or US F1 - drops out allowing the Sauber F1 team to fill the vacated places

Sauber has been given their place . I think it was done while you were on vacation, that's why you might not have gotten the news

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Thanks for clarifying that Gnil - yes, I must have missed this while I was away

Indeed, BMW Sauber has been allocated Toyota's vacated slots on the F1 grid  I'll be looking forward to watching Kamui Kobayashi mixing it with the leading cars

Here's the news article confirming it:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/12/10262.html

 
RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

So the 13 teams due to start the 2010 F1 season are:

McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, Renault, Force India, Toro Rosso, Williams, BMW Sauber, Lotus, Campos Meta, Virgin Racing & US F1.

26 cars on the grid

 
RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

easy_rider911:

So, that leaves an interesting question: what future does Nick Heidfeld still have in F1?

I came across this interesting article in the news archives on the F1 website:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/1/10310.html

Indeed, Nick Heidfeld's position is looking uncertain to the say the least

I guess it shows that Heidfeld's approach of trying to finish races consistently - irrespective of being out of the points positions - has not endeared him to the team principals of the F1 racing teams that still have driver vacancies.

I am sure various drivers are anxiously waiting for their mobile phones to ring with some hopeful news from their agents about possible negotiations for a race seat.

At the moment, the only teams with unannounced place(s) are Renault, Toro Rosso (but it's probably Jaime Alguersuari who will keep this seat), Campos Meta and US F1.

But truthfully, Heidfeld must be trying desperately to get the vacant place at Renault. Has Grosjean done enough to deserve another chance at Renault in 2010 - not IMHO  But what value will Heidfeld actually add at Renault? Sure, he's a safe enough pair of hands but that's about it IMHO - so maybe Renault will prefer to encourage a young French driver instead?

All will be revealed soon enough when testing begins in February at Valencia

 
RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

As expected, Jaime Alguersuari has been granted the other race seat at Toro Rosso:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/1/10357.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8475881.stm

 
RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection