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15-mar-2005 0.31.11
- Gary(SF)
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- Loc: SF Bay Area
- Posts: 510, Gallery
- Registrato dal: 4-nov-2003
- In risposta a: bostonmini
Re: Gallardo
Quote:
tdf360 said:Quote:
bostonmini said:
it performs just as well as a F430...?
Uh, no. R&T shows the 430 0.5 sec faster to 60, and 0.6 sec quicker in the quarter. With cars this fast, that is a significant gap.
Gary
TDF is right,
The car aesthetically is superb but throunced by the 430, in straight line but mostly in twisties and of course on the track.
Ferrari really has understood the secret to a marvellous sports car here, a combinaition of great power, low weight (relatively) and superb braking power.
Apparently Lambo is going to add horses to the Gallardo, but I just don't get these enginners, it still won't solve the problem of its heavy weight!
They should make a RWD Gallardo with a weight saving, hopefully, it's in the plans.
Re: Gallardo
Ferrari's power game is simple. Make an engine that can rev as high as possible that maintains its torque. Then fit the most aggressive gearing possible. Use 1st to 5th for acceleration and 6th longer for top speed. With the high redline, top speed will not suffer.
Not a particular fan of this philosophy, I much prefer an engine with lots of torque, now such an engine with aggressive gearing means ??? AWESOME performance. This is where the Zonda's upgraded powerplant really shines.
Not a particular fan of this philosophy, I much prefer an engine with lots of torque, now such an engine with aggressive gearing means ??? AWESOME performance. This is where the Zonda's upgraded powerplant really shines.
Re: Gallardo
Quote:
///AMG Mercedes said:
Ferrari's power game is simple. Make an engine that can rev as high as possible that maintains its torque. Then fit the most aggressive gearing possible. Use 1st to 5th for acceleration and 6th longer for top speed. With the high redline, top speed will not suffer.
Not a particular fan of this philosophy, I much prefer an engine with lots of torque, now such an engine with aggressive gearing means ??? AWESOME performance. This is where the Zonda's upgraded powerplant really shines.
I think it's wonderful we have all those choices out there. For me, the high-rpm scream will always win out over low-end torque, even if it is not faster. The sound alone is worth any performance loss! For me, there is no emotion in a low revving, monster torque motor, and I've driven a number of them
Gary
Re: Gallardo
Quote:
tdf360 said:Quote:
///AMG Mercedes said:
Ferrari's power game is simple. Make an engine that can rev as high as possible that maintains its torque. Then fit the most aggressive gearing possible. Use 1st to 5th for acceleration and 6th longer for top speed. With the high redline, top speed will not suffer.
Not a particular fan of this philosophy, I much prefer an engine with lots of torque, now such an engine with aggressive gearing means ??? AWESOME performance. This is where the Zonda's upgraded powerplant really shines.
I think it's wonderful we have all those choices out there. For me, the high-rpm scream will always win out over low-end torque, even if it is not faster. The sound alone is worth any performance loss! For me, there is no emotion in a low revving, monster torque motor, and I've driven a number of them
Gary
High-revving engines are for sports cars, low-end-torque-engines are for saloons. Just my 2c.
(and that's why I don't really like the new M5...
)
Re: Gallardo
Quote:
shin said:
The RX-8's rotary engine screams to 10,000 rpms but the lack of torque proves to be a weakness as well. I say balance is the key..
And the Gallardo looks amazing. Love the compact size, especially compared to an F430. Just my two cents.
Agreed, Gallardo is an amazing balance!
I just wished it was only RWD and not 4WD, shame.
But I also agree with tdf360, given the choice I prefer high peak engine, with high rpm, not as useable on the open road (but can you really drive fast on the open road anymore?) but so much more fun and exhilirating!
Re: Gallardo
Quote:
shin said:
The RX-8's rotary engine screams to 10,000 rpms but the lack of torque proves to be a weakness as well. I say balance is the key..
And the Gallardo looks amazing. Love the compact size, especially compared to an F430. Just my two cents.
I agree, there is certainly such a thing as too little torque...the RX-8 and the S2000 come to mind. Never felt shorted in the 360. As to the Gallardo, it is certainly smaller than a 430 (I think about 8" shorter, maybe an inch lower and narrower), but it weighs 400 lbs more! That is the more significant number to me.
Gary
17-mar-2005 1.30.26
- bostonmini
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- In risposta a: shin
Re: Gallardo
the gallardo has been as fast as any F430, it has done the quarter in 11.7 @ 120 in 1 magazine...incidentally, if they are not run next to one another..then forget the whole thing...but the F430 is only marginally faster, if at all....in real world in gear roll overs, i think the Gs better torque curve would make it a touch faster.
Re: Gallardo
Quote:
shin said:
Yes, I also think so. Even if it's not faster, it's not slower either.
I just don't see that...with a 400 lb weight advantage and basically the same power, the 430 has to be faster. And I'm mainly talking track performance here, I don't really care about 0-60, altho I would anticipate the 430 quicker there also. On track, the extra 400 lbs will affect every phase of the performance envelope.
Gary
Re: Gallardo
Quote:
shin said:
How about on twisty mountain roads (going up, not down), shouldn't the Gallardo's torque give it an advantage against the F430?
Maybe in the first few yards from a standing start, otherwise I doubt it. Once the 430 is in its happy rev range it will outperform the Gallardo even uphill, IMO.
Gary
17-mar-2005 14.55.52
- Gary(SF)
- Senior
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- Loc: SF Bay Area
- Posts: 510, Gallery
- Registrato dal: 4-nov-2003
- In risposta a: bostonmini
Re: Gallardo
Quote:
shin said:
Happy rev? Surely that in those twisting roads, the F 430 won't be revving constantly at above 8,000 rpm?
With all due respect, being a proud 360 owner, don't you think you're too biased against the G?
Well, of course I'm biased
but I think I am accurate, I'm trying my best to estimate the performance potential of both cars. And if you've driven a 360 you know you don't have to wind the snot out of it - it makes very useful power above 4000, screams above 6000, and of course the 430 is a lot better on the torque meter.
I'm looking forward to seeing some actual track times, but for now it is fun to speculate.
Gary
17-mar-2005 19.13.12
- bostonmini
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- In risposta a: Gary(SF)
Re: Gallardo
TDF, have to disagree, on real roads, the AWD as I said in MOST hands.....is more secure and will allow u to get more out of the car....in a mid engined car, while it ultimately handles better, it is also a bit more risky on a public road, the limit is a lot slicker if u will.
17-mar-2005 19.35.47
- Gary(SF)
- Senior
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- Loc: SF Bay Area
- Posts: 510, Gallery
- Registrato dal: 4-nov-2003
- In risposta a: bostonmini
Re: Gallardo
Quote:
bostonmini said:
TDF, have to disagree, on real roads, the AWD as I said in MOST hands.....is more secure and will allow u to get more out of the car....in a mid engined car, while it ultimately handles better, it is also a bit more risky on a public road, the limit is a lot slicker if u will.
Whatever floats your boat. I prefer the lighter, more responsive feel of RWD. With all the electronic aids on the 430 (if you choose to use them) from what I read it is a very safe car to flog on the street.
Gary
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