Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: My prediction... - Page1

Mar 2, 2005 9:05:17 PM

timpalms: Newbie; Loc: Hawaii; Posts: 37, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 29, 2004

My prediction...

I am predicting that Porsche is going to want some "groundbreaking' new technology on the Cayman S, and is going to introduce their new DSG system.
I have talked to a couple of the PDE and factory drivers and say that the system is out, but Porsche is testing it to death first. Since it is supposed to be the "track model" why not?

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Mar 2, 2005 9:13:01 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: timpalms

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
timpalms said:
I am predicting that Porsche is going to want some "groundbreaking' new technology on the Cayman S, and is going to introduce their new DSG system.
I have talked to a couple of the PDE and factory drivers and say that the system is out, but Porsche is testing it to death first. Since it is supposed to be the "track model" why not?

I would say that they'll introduce the new technologies with the upcoming 997TT such as direct injection, DSG, new 4WD, and....

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Mar 2, 2005 9:15:04 PM

Atlantis: Senior; Loc: Warwickshire, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 550, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2003; Reply to: timpalms

Re: My prediction...

I hope Porsche test the DSG system far better than Audi did. My friend has a 3.2 Audi TT with DSG and it is now on its 3rd gearbox. I think it's more likely that the Cayman will get PCCB as standard rather than DSG.

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Mar 2, 2005 9:58:04 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: Atlantis

Re: My prediction...

I don't think it'll get the PCCB as standard, would be nice though.
But then a 997 owner would be annoyed to have to pay 8000 Euros for it when a "lesser" car has it standard.
DSG?
Would be great too, but I can see that coming with the GT3 or 997 Mk2.

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Mar 2, 2005 10:03:13 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Quote:
timpalms said:
I am predicting that Porsche is going to want some "groundbreaking' new technology on the Cayman S, and is going to introduce their new DSG system.
I have talked to a couple of the PDE and factory drivers and say that the system is out, but Porsche is testing it to death first. Since it is supposed to be the "track model" why not?

I would say that they'll introduce the new technologies with the upcoming 997TT such as direct injection, DSG, new 4WD, and....

I agree with Ron - 997TT or GT3 will get it first. Also, the Cayman is certainly not the "track" model with a wet sump engine. The track models are the GT2/3 and CGT... Also, no way they will make a $10k brake upgrade standard on a car that costs under $60k...

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Mar 2, 2005 11:25:38 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
Grant said:
I agree with Ron - 997TT or GT3 will get it first. Also, the Cayman is certainly not the "track" model with a wet sump engine. The track models are the GT2/3 and CGT... Also, no way they will make a $10k brake upgrade standard on a car that costs under $60k...

I agree on all three points.

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Mar 3, 2005 2:25:29 AM

mcdelaug: Expert; Loc: Fort Worth, Texas , United States; Posts: 1919, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: My prediction...

I agree with Grant completely regarding all of his points.

I have this question...Who will buy the Cayman?

Although I am a huge fan of the CONCEPT of this car (a mid engine coupe with the most powerful engine offered in a Boxster derivative so far) I cannot understand who will purchase it AT THIS PRICE POINT. Porsche is trying to position this closed roof car based on the Boxster between the Boxster S and the 997. In essence they are asking you to give up the convertible roof and $10K US for 200cc of displacement, 15hp and a name that rhymes with "gay man."

Enthusiasts and poseurs alike would have to see the standard 997 as the better choice even for $10000 more. In fact, buying a used 996 (for less money) would make more sense to me than buying this vehicle for $60K.

Cayman sales may be OK at first, since it will be a novelty, but over time it will require discounting to move this product. It offers none of the heritage/prestige of the 911 and just doesn't make sense from a value standpoint for the Boxster customers.

It would make sense if Porsche intends to push the 911 further "upmarket" in terms of performance and price, and thus allow the Cayman to be the "mid-level Porsche" but that is not what is being done with the current pricing. The current price points are too close together for the 987S, Cayman and standrad 997 for the Cayman to be viable in the long term.

Let me know what you think,

mcdelaug

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Mar 3, 2005 5:11:28 AM

svtrader1: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 821, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
Grant said:

Also, no way they will make a $10k brake upgrade standard on a car that costs under $60k...

Don't be so sure, the Cayman's CC brakes are smaller and less costly. Also, the price can be more than offset by the Caymans higher volume. It's possible...

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Mar 3, 2005 7:01:14 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: mcdelaug

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
mcdelaug said:
I agree with Grant completely regarding all of his points.

I have this question...Who will buy the Cayman?

Although I am a huge fan of the CONCEPT of this car (a mid engine coupe with the most powerful engine offered in a Boxster derivative so far) I cannot understand who will purchase it AT THIS PRICE POINT. Porsche is trying to position this closed roof car based on the Boxster between the Boxster S and the 997. In essence they are asking you to give up the convertible roof and $10K US for 200cc of displacement, 15hp and a name that rhymes with "gay man."

Enthusiasts and poseurs alike would have to see the standard 997 as the better choice even for $10000 more. In fact, buying a used 996 (for less money) would make more sense to me than buying this vehicle for $60K.

Cayman sales may be OK at first, since it will be a novelty, but over time it will require discounting to move this product. It offers none of the heritage/prestige of the 911 and just doesn't make sense from a value standpoint for the Boxster customers.

It would make sense if Porsche intends to push the 911 further "upmarket" in terms of performance and price, and thus allow the Cayman to be the "mid-level Porsche" but that is not what is being done with the current pricing. The current price points are too close together for the 987S, Cayman and standrad 997 for the Cayman to be viable in the long term.

Let me know what you think,

mcdelaug

Aye you saying that Porsches price, positioning, and lack of product name localization research is evidence of their greed, arrogance and stupidity?

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Mar 3, 2005 9:27:02 AM

Atlantis: Senior; Loc: Warwickshire, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 550, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: My prediction...

If the Cayman is going to cost Pounds50k in the UK (just Pounds8k less than the 911 carerra), then it needs to have something like PCCBs as standard to justify the price. After all, it's only really a Boxster S with an extra 15bhp and a new name, and a Boxster S is "only" Pounds38k.

See the attached Autocar article from this weeks magazine.

Click here for article

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Mar 3, 2005 10:09:14 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: timpalms

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
timpalms said:
Since it is supposed to be the "track model" why not?

Track model? The Cayman? Please elaborate, I think I don't quite understand.

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Mar 3, 2005 2:25:17 PM

MikeN: Senior; Loc: Arizona; Posts: 595, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2004; Reply to: Atlantis

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
Atlantis said:
If the Cayman is going to cost Pounds50k in the UK (just Pounds8k less than the 911 carerra), then it needs to have something like PCCBs as standard to justify the price. After all, it's only really a Boxster S with an extra 15bhp and a new name, and a Boxster S is "only" Pounds38k.

See the attached Autocar article from this weeks magazine.

Click here for article

That would make the Cayman S start around $65K with the base model coming in around $54,600.

The "base" 3.2L model will be more than a Boxster S??!!??

If this pricing holds true.....its ridiculous and I will not be suckered into buying one.....definitely not an S anyway.

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Mar 3, 2005 11:16:37 PM

xspencex: Junior; Loc: UK; Posts: 54, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 26, 2004; Reply to: Atlantis

Re: My prediction...

I would think that PCCB would not be included considering that to replace all the discs would cost a third of the car... I think bringing DSG out would be a great Idea....so It can compete against the BMW CSL...

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Mar 4, 2005 12:23:55 PM

Ed J: Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 407, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 4, 2004; Reply to: xspencex

Re: My prediction...

I had DSG in my Audi TT and it was faultless. I was amazed that despite a large number of launch control starts and heavy use of the manual gears (ie not in auto mode) it was so reliable. I think there have been problems, but not as many as some people would believe.

By the way, don't get too excited about DSG - the manual gearbox on my 997 is so much more fun to drive. The DSG was too much like a Playstation game...

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Mar 5, 2005 3:32:47 AM

RickJK: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 69, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Ed J

Re: My prediction...

I test drove the DSG on a TT just to see what the trans was like and I was very disappointed in the feel of the trans. The downshifts felt great, but the upshifts seemed less than lightning fast, even when lifting the throttle at shift points. I was really hoping for something to rival the F1 Ferrari trans, but came away hoping the Porsche version will have a more sporting character. In Roundel, the techs working on the new M cars said that perhaps the DSG is "too good" and they would be staying with the autoshifter they are currently using for it's more sporting feel.

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Mar 5, 2005 6:15:31 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: RickJK

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
RickJK said:
I test drove the DSG on a TT just to see what the trans was like and I was very disappointed in the feel of the trans. The downshifts felt great, but the upshifts seemed less than lightning fast, even when lifting the throttle at shift points. I was really hoping for something to rival the F1 Ferrari trans, but came away hoping the Porsche version will have a more sporting character. In Roundel, the techs working on the new M cars said that perhaps the DSG is "too good" and they would be staying with the autoshifter they are currently using for it's more sporting feel.

If you care about a sporting feel, get the manual. No form of automatic (even a real F1 tranny) approaches the interactive excitement of operating the controls yourself

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Mar 5, 2005 11:34:41 AM

NM: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 266, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: My prediction...

I'm still a little unsure about the cayman. On the one hand i really want it, but the price (in the UK anyway) lets it down. If one was to spec it up, i.e. bose, full leather, sports seats, navi etc it looks like the cost will be somewhere around Pounds55k, which is far too much.
Also, i'm still not sure what they will offer it with to justify this extra cost. Either loads of options - which will increase the weight and be at odds with their plan to offer a real "back to basics" sports car. Or with the PCCB, which may alienate many potential customers - as from what i've heard the version on the 996 are prone to cracking and need replacing quite regularly at a significant cost. Also, i'm i right in thinking that PCCB is only come good, once the brakes have been warmed up? Making them a bit hazardous for short drives, in the cold and wet (basically most days in London)?

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Mar 5, 2005 12:27:01 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: NM

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
NM said:
Also, i'm i right in thinking that PCCB is only come good, once the brakes have been warmed up? Making them a bit hazardous for short drives, in the cold and wet (basically most days in London)?

This is a myth. My X50 996 TT had far more power, and this just was not an issue, even in London.

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Mar 5, 2005 12:47:26 PM

NM: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 266, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2005; Reply to: crayphile

Re: My prediction...

Have you ever had to change the brakes on yours and how many miles have they lasted?

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Mar 6, 2005 1:14:03 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: NM

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
NM said:
Have you ever had to change the brakes on yours and how many miles have they lasted?

No. I just sold the car at two years old with 13.5K miles on the clock. Normal city and highway driving, plus a couple of track days a year, and 4 slow "get my self around in one piece" laps of the The Ring resulted in what was described as 25% wear by my dealer. I'd say that was perfectly acceptable after nearly 14K miles.

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Mar 6, 2005 3:14:48 PM

RickJK: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 69, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: My prediction...

Grant - I care most about lap times in this car as one of my main objectives would be autocrosses and time trials, and as much as I do admit a good double clutch downshift is really satisfying, I know "I" would be faster around a given course if shifting were lightning fast and practically a spinal reaction. I will have other cars with manual shift for a mountain road drive where time doesn't matter. Feel like looking at any 914's for me?? Just kidding, thanks Grant!!

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Mar 6, 2005 9:29:36 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: crayphile

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
crayphile said:
Quote:
NM said:
Have you ever had to change the brakes on yours and how many miles have they lasted?

No. I just sold the car at two years old with 13.5K miles on the clock. Normal city and highway driving, plus a couple of track days a year, and 4 slow "get my self around in one piece" laps of the The Ring resulted in what was described as 25% wear by my dealer. I'd say that was perfectly acceptable after nearly 14K miles.

I'm guessing that NM's question was intended to refer to changing brake disks, whílst Crayphile's dealer's "25% wear" referred to brake pad wear?

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Mar 29, 2005 1:06:50 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: RickJK

Re: My prediction...

Cayman will never get PCCB's as standard

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Mar 31, 2005 2:47:23 AM

Bennett: Newbie; Loc: California, USA; Posts: 42, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 23, 2005; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
Cayman will never get PCCB's as standard

That is quite a bold statement. While it's unlikely that the Cayman will get PCCB standard at this point in time, Porsche is developing PCCB for all vehicles as it offers better breaking perforamce and less unsprung weight. It isn't going to happen next week or even next year, but sometime within the next five or ten years, this should become a reality.

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Apr 6, 2005 7:58:07 AM

igzaklee: Senior; Loc: BH , United States; Posts: 797, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 16, 2003; Reply to: mcdelaug

Re: My prediction...

Quote:
mcdelaug said:It would make sense if Porsche intends to push the 911 further "upmarket" in terms of performance and price, and thus allow the Cayman to be the "mid-level Porsche" but that is not what is being done with the current pricing...

what i think: you gotta start somewhere, and your rationale makes a lot of economic and production sense in just a few years time...

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