Sep 24, 2007 6:47:12 PM
- thegratingone
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- Loc: Connecticut, USA
- Posts: 69, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 26, 2006
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
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Sep 24, 2007 7:07:27 PM
- Jim48
- Senior
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- Loc: Virginia, USA
- Posts: 639, Gallery
- Registered on: Oct 24, 2005
- Reply to: thegratingone
Re: Paddle shifting vs. tiptronic?
Check out this site (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-clutch-transmission.htm) for a description of the difference. The paddle is the means to change the gears, which, in a sense, is similar to the sequential gear change (either up or down) that one gets on a motorcycle. The innards of the transmission are what the real difference is all about. You wouldn't need to depress a clutch.
Porsche has been working on this for a long time and wants to make sure such a transmission works well under a wide variety of driving conditions. It's my guess that's the reason they haven't offered one thus far, plus they want to design their own and not pay royalties or a stiff price for someone else to make it for them.
The Tiptronic has a torque converter, if I am not mistaken. The PDK would not have a torque converter.
Jim
Porsche has been working on this for a long time and wants to make sure such a transmission works well under a wide variety of driving conditions. It's my guess that's the reason they haven't offered one thus far, plus they want to design their own and not pay royalties or a stiff price for someone else to make it for them.
The Tiptronic has a torque converter, if I am not mistaken. The PDK would not have a torque converter.
Jim
Re: Paddle shifting vs. tiptronic?
Even with a single clutch paddle gearbox (ferrari F1/ aston sportshift / bmw SMG) the computer controls the clutch.
In a triptronic, a torque converter takes over the duties in a different manner and in most situations, robs power/time from the drivetrain.
how stuff works ia a great place to find the differences. tiptronic gearboxes also tend to be MUCH heavier. for example, the BMW only weighs 10 pounds more than the manual.
In a triptronic, a torque converter takes over the duties in a different manner and in most situations, robs power/time from the drivetrain.
how stuff works ia a great place to find the differences. tiptronic gearboxes also tend to be MUCH heavier. for example, the BMW only weighs 10 pounds more than the manual.
Re: Paddle shifting vs. tiptronic?
It's true about the torque converter robbing power and time. Even so, the tiptronic 997tt *can* be faster than the manual. If this is the case, then the PDK without the torque converter and superhuman shift speeds should have staggering performance figures when it finally arrives.
Re: Paddle shifting vs. tiptronic?
Tip robs power, but not THAT much. Can't remember the numbers. Anybody know?
In the brochure, SMG on my M3 is not indicated as faster than manual from 0-60. So it would seem SMG/PDK's extreme speed in shifting adds up on the track and isn't a big deal just hot-dog-ing around on Sundays. As mentioned I have SMG/M3 and I looooove it. It's just sooo cool (IMO) to hear and feel that baby do it's thing lightening fast when you stomp the pedal, flick the paddles, and pay attention to things other than slinging your meaty arm and leg around.
Nice thing about letting the computer run the shifting for SMG (in "auto" mode especially) is it is usually smarter and faster than the driver and can maxmimize the amount of power put down onto road.
I heard when Porsche gets PDK going that will be the final end of Tip-equipped cars at Porsche.
In the brochure, SMG on my M3 is not indicated as faster than manual from 0-60. So it would seem SMG/PDK's extreme speed in shifting adds up on the track and isn't a big deal just hot-dog-ing around on Sundays. As mentioned I have SMG/M3 and I looooove it. It's just sooo cool (IMO) to hear and feel that baby do it's thing lightening fast when you stomp the pedal, flick the paddles, and pay attention to things other than slinging your meaty arm and leg around.
Nice thing about letting the computer run the shifting for SMG (in "auto" mode especially) is it is usually smarter and faster than the driver and can maxmimize the amount of power put down onto road.
I heard when Porsche gets PDK going that will be the final end of Tip-equipped cars at Porsche.
Re: Paddle shifting vs. tiptronic?
Smart, fast gearboxes don't operate in isolation.....every few mths the computer networks linking throttle/gearbox/active chassis damping/stab ctrls/brakes, etc etc become smarter/faster as chips become faster and software becomes smarter....and likely are disrupted/destabilized by human inputs aside from risk/reward judgment, steering, brakes and throttle....
Not sure paddleshifters won't, within next some 2yrs, become placeboshifters, kept around for marketing/nostalgia purposes, as it will prob take elder enthusiasts a few yrs to accept that car will be faster/smoother/more stable/safer w/o human input re: gear selection....
Not sure paddleshifters won't, within next some 2yrs, become placeboshifters, kept around for marketing/nostalgia purposes, as it will prob take elder enthusiasts a few yrs to accept that car will be faster/smoother/more stable/safer w/o human input re: gear selection....
Re: Paddle shifting vs. tiptronic?
Quote:
WBH said:
Smart, fast gearboxes don't operate in isolation.....every few mths the computer networks linking throttle/gearbox/active chassis damping/stab ctrls/brakes, etc etc become smarter/faster as chips become faster and software becomes smarter....and likely are disrupted/destabilized by human inputs aside from risk/reward judgment, steering, brakes and throttle....
Not sure paddleshifters won't, within next some 2yrs, become placeboshifters, kept around for marketing/nostalgia purposes, as it will prob take elder enthusiasts a few yrs to accept that car will be faster/smoother/more stable/safer w/o human input re: gear selection....
So if I get what you're saying, the "Automatic" transmission is about to come back in vogue but this time with a vengeance?!
Re: Paddle shifting vs. tiptronic?
MMD, exactly...
Was originally my casual observation, based upon common-sense engineering logic (of a non-engineer), but my sense in talking to guys at F and AMG is that that's direction they're heading....man-machine-computer interface phenomena w/which they're grappling....
F is already unable to engineer a well-sorted Luddite manual 599 (the Luddite box seems to screw up the various chassis/drivetrain computer networks)....Scud is even more tech-intense and networked.....every 6-12mos seems like F/AMG keep adding layers of faster/smarter networking to latest/greatest chassis/drivetrains....
Was originally my casual observation, based upon common-sense engineering logic (of a non-engineer), but my sense in talking to guys at F and AMG is that that's direction they're heading....man-machine-computer interface phenomena w/which they're grappling....
F is already unable to engineer a well-sorted Luddite manual 599 (the Luddite box seems to screw up the various chassis/drivetrain computer networks)....Scud is even more tech-intense and networked.....every 6-12mos seems like F/AMG keep adding layers of faster/smarter networking to latest/greatest chassis/drivetrains....
Re: Paddle shifting vs. tiptronic?
Quote:
WBH said:
my casual observation, based upon common-sense engineering logic (of a non-engineer), but my sense in talking to guys at F and AMG is that that's direction they're heading....man-machine-computer interface phenomena w/which they're grappling....
LOL. Thanks for the new way to look at things. I was driving my new manual Turbo (just traded in a manual 997S) a few days ago and for the first time I started to think I really _need_ PDK in it to take full advantage of all the HP/Tq. Maybe I'm still just getting used to the car... .
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