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My theory about "passion"
Autojournalists get to drive a given vehicle for a couple of hours. When they cruise by the local high school in a yellow italian convertible that bellows and howls, they get alot of looks. Hence they think that they have a chance with the high school cheerleaders that made their lives miserable while in high school. I won't comment on middle age men who think the same.
For me, driving a subdued supercar everyday in all weather is about the passion of driving.
For me, driving a subdued supercar everyday in all weather is about the passion of driving.
Re: My theory about "passion"
I find myself wanting to drive the TT all the time, even in rain and bad weather. Just the other day I came to the realization that this is the most relaxing supercar out there. Driving it is like slipping on a pair of comfortable jeans and shoes, and not like squeezing into an akward costume that you can't wait to get out of.
Re: My theory about "passion"
Quote:
MMD said:
Get seated in a Toyota: start it and drive.
Get seated in a Porsche: get excited about starting it and driving.
Happens that way everytime.
I agree, the main reason I'm asking the question is that I keep reading reviews about the TT being lacking and almost too usable its boring apparently. I don't feel that way. I have even seen people say that about the Veyron, though I believe most have not driven one.
Re: My theory about "passion"
Quote:
thuggy said:
I keep reading reviews about the TT being lacking and almost too usable its boring apparently.
The thing I like about it (I don't own one yet) is that "the reviews" say it is a docile easy-to-drive car for cities and parkinglots, yet becomes a monster in the passinglanes. It's a comfortable cruising car too, not to mention it's great handling in curves... .
Re: My theory about "passion"
I agree MMD, going from a 997S to a 997TT(May delivery) was a big question mark for me (especially when I can't find one to test drive). Too late, made the move but I did so after doing a lot of homework (mostly on these boards). I know the TT is not going to feel as "raw" or as "direct" as my 997S. But there are so many other factors that come into the equation and living in a City, you pointed out some major ones. No car can have everything, the back seats are a must for me (eliminates the "other" car) but taken as a whole package, the turbo seems to fit the bill. 
Re: What's passion?
Quote:
thuggy said:
I keep reading things about some cars having soul, others not having it, some cars have passion, others lacking? So is a difficult to drive, unreliable, loud bordering on obnoxious, uncomfortable car full of passion and soul?
Obviously subjective....
997TT w/a more charismatic exhaust note (e.g., more like elder statesmen luxury cars like 599/CL63
), less turbo lag (more like 600/65 biturbos) and paddleshifter tranny (like 599/CL63) would rival any car on planet for passion.... 
997TT's steering and brakes are only rivaled by those of 599...and 997TT's superior passive safety/traction allows one to more confidently extract performance (and presumably passionate driving) from car than in any alleged sportscar w/dubious safety....
Let's see if P engineers can copy/improve upon elements of driving features/feel/aural theatrics that make 599/CL63 so endearing to passionate (but jaded) drivers/buyers of various P/F/MB.....
Not a big believer in the 997TT daily supercar BS
.....car lacks decent-sized fuel tank/Bluetooth/iPod/trunk for even basic urban commuting/errands.....in CA, 599/CL600 are far better daily commuter/errand cars....and if exiled in ex-CA locales, would rather commute via S550 4Matic and keep my F/P/AMG in CA (while figuring out how to relocate to SF/LA ASAP 
)....
Re: What's passion?
Haven't driven either car yet but honestly, I can't begin to imagine CL63 giving me a passionate drive. To me, it's more like a 2-door S-class. I like the car as it has lots of gadgets and it's nice and quiet, but that's all. Now the CL65 is another story as it has stupid amount of torque.
The 997TT is fun. It massages my ego fooling me into believing that I'm a better driver. Kind of like a good bedmate making you feel like a better lover.
The 997TT is fun. It massages my ego fooling me into believing that I'm a better driver. Kind of like a good bedmate making you feel like a better lover.
Re: What's passion?
Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
thuggy said:
I keep reading things about some cars having soul, others not having it, some cars have passion, others lacking? So is a difficult to drive, unreliable, loud bordering on obnoxious, uncomfortable car full of passion and soul?
Obviously subjective....
997TT w/a more charismatic exhaust note (e.g., more like elder statesmen luxury cars like 599/CL63
997TT's steering and brakes are only rivaled by those of 599...and 997TT's superior passive safety/traction allows one to more confidently extract performance (and presumably passionate driving) from car than in any alleged sportscar w/dubious safety....
Let's see if P engineers can copy/improve upon elements of driving features/feel/aural theatrics that make 599/CL63 so endearing to passionate (but jaded) drivers/buyers of various P/F/MB.....
Not a big believer in the 997TT daily supercar BS
Well exhaust, ipod and bluetooth can all be added through aftermarket... now about relocating back to LA...hmmm... that has never entered my mind
Re: What's passion?
Quote:
thuggy said:
Well exhaust, ipod and bluetooth can all be added through aftermarket... now about relocating back to LA...hmmm... that has never entered my mind
I've done the exhaust and Parrot Bluetooth, planning on doing the Denison too but not high on my priority list. The biggest difference to me was the GIAC flash. It really added alot of flavor and transformed the car - kind of like having the wife put on the naughty nurse outfit....
Re: What's passion?
Quote:
thuggy said:
I keep reading things about some cars having soul, others not having it, some cars have passion, others lacking? So is a difficult to drive, unreliable, loud bordering on obnoxious, uncomfortable car full of passion and soul?
I guess if your asking you have not experienced it. I suggest it may be a function of driving Porche's. Make no mistake they are great cars. However, they are focused on efficient performance at which they brillantly succeed.
However, Porsche's are viewed by most as sterile and lacking panache. Passion and soul exist along side but outside performance. It is all about the other factors including styling, sound, communication with the car and road and yes, SPECIALNESS .
An automotive writer for the San Diego Tribune in today's paper wrote this about his drive in the 997TT
"Porsches, ubiquitous as they are in San Diego, all look alike to nongearheads and hence don't draw attention as do the flashy Italian marques. On the freeway and under a light foot, the 911 is tame and predictable, a usable daily driver."
Sorry, how is that any different than a SL63-65?
Usable daily cars are not about passion or engender soul. They are about transportation albeit fast transportation in the case of the Turbo. GREAT CAR BUT NOTHING TO EXCITED ABOUT. I guess that says it all.
Re: What's passion?
Nick, having lived in LA and being exposed to Ferraris and Lamborghinis and Bentleys on almost a daily basis and having driven a F430 and in a Gallardo, I am still asking the question. The F430 does sound better than my TT but does changing the exhaust on my car give it passion? And since my TT is more rare where I live now than where I used to live it has more passion in Philly than in LA?
But it is true, I don't see Phantoms everyday and when I do I react to them. But I don't think its a passionate response ;-)
But it is true, I don't see Phantoms everyday and when I do I react to them. But I don't think its a passionate response ;-)
Re: What's passion?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
thuggy said:
I keep reading things about some cars having soul, others not having it, some cars have passion, others lacking? So is a difficult to drive, unreliable, loud bordering on obnoxious, uncomfortable car full of passion and soul?
I guess if your asking you have not experienced it. I suggest it may be a function of driving Porche's. Make no mistake they are great cars. However, they are focused on efficient performance at which they brillantly succeed.
However, Porsche's are viewed by most as sterile and lacking panache. Passion and soul exist along side but outside performance. It is all about the other factors including styling, sound, communication with the car and road and yes, SPECIALNESS .
An automotive writer for the San Diego Tribune in today's paper wrote this about his drive in the 997TT
"Porsches, ubiquitous as they are in San Diego, all look alike to nongearheads and hence don't draw attention as do the flashy Italian marques. On the freeway and under a light foot, the 911 is tame and predictable, a usable daily driver."
Sorry, how is that any different than a SL63-65?
Nick,
Clearly there are some parts of what you're saying that I agree with, but I think much of it has to do with point of reference and perspective. When I had my 996TT and 360 coupe, I found that the 360 actually made me appreciate the 996TT more as it gave me everything the 360 didn't. When I sold my 360 and was left with only the 996TT, I found myself picking at its faults more and gravitating towards cars with more "passion."
I still feel that some of the most fun cars to drive are Porsches, and that they do have quite a bit of passion in them. It's just a very different total package than say a Ferrari, not necessarily worse but different. Even today I still love driving a base Boxster, and sometimes I crave the feel of the 911. If I managed to put together the funds to support it and had enough garage space I'd probably like to have every modern day Porsche in my garage as they all have something unique to bring to the driving experience.
I'm guessing that you may get a similar sort of experience when driving your mini, one that is enhanced by the fact that your other car is a F430 Spider. All of these cars we're talking about have passion and they speak different things to different folks.
Even though I hate the crappy resale value and I'd like more Carrera GT-esque cars, Porsches still excite me
Re: What's passion?
Thuggy, Raz, Porsche are not built for passion. They do not generate excitement when seen on the street and certainly do not have any sound signature to speak of. The closest Porsche's that come to having passion are the GT2-3 but because they look like all other Porsche's they lose their appeal. I believe the CGT is outside the Porsche mainstream and thus really cannot be considered.
Thuggy, a Phantom on the street, though rare, does not stimulate the senses because it is not stylish nor does it have a presence. It lacks road appeal very much like most Porsche's.
Raz, I have driven the 996TT and I find it difficult to believe anyone would find it more fun than a 360. The 996TT was wickedly fast (as is the 997TT) but cold and uninspiring. It left me flat and could not wait to get back to my 360. If both were in my garage, I would use the Turbo for grocery shopping, mall shopping or whatever.
If I want genuine road excitement and inspired driving experience, the 360 is what I would choose. Both great cars but also, by a substantial margin, dissimilar.
Thuggy, a Phantom on the street, though rare, does not stimulate the senses because it is not stylish nor does it have a presence. It lacks road appeal very much like most Porsche's.
Raz, I have driven the 996TT and I find it difficult to believe anyone would find it more fun than a 360. The 996TT was wickedly fast (as is the 997TT) but cold and uninspiring. It left me flat and could not wait to get back to my 360. If both were in my garage, I would use the Turbo for grocery shopping, mall shopping or whatever.
If I want genuine road excitement and inspired driving experience, the 360 is what I would choose. Both great cars but also, by a substantial margin, dissimilar.
Re: What's passion?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
thuggy said:
I keep reading things about some cars having soul, others not having it, some cars have passion, others lacking? So is a difficult to drive, unreliable, loud bordering on obnoxious, uncomfortable car full of passion and soul?
I guess if your asking you have not experienced it. I suggest it may be a function of driving Porche's. Make no mistake they are great cars. However, they are focused on efficient performance at which they brillantly succeed.
However, Porsche's are viewed by most as sterile and lacking panache. Passion and soul exist along side but outside performance. It is all about the other factors including styling, sound, communication with the car and road and yes, SPECIALNESS .
An automotive writer for the San Diego Tribune in today's paper wrote this about his drive in the 997TT
"Porsches, ubiquitous as they are in San Diego, all look alike to nongearheads and hence don't draw attention as do the flashy Italian marques. On the freeway and under a light foot, the 911 is tame and predictable, a usable daily driver."
Sorry, how is that any different than a SL63-65?
Nick,
You really need to educate yourself on Porsche's offerings. You keep confusing the intent of different Porsche models. That's the beauty of Porsche. There's a model for every sporting need. The purpose of the 997TT is not to be a raw pure sports car as you seem to think. Here's your first assignment: read up on the 997TT, GT3, GT3RS. Then write a one page report on the differences between each model.
I don't understand what daily usability has to do with passion or engendering soul. Usability is a function of your income. Many people who's daily car is a Ferrari because money is not an issue. The only people who drive Ferraris sparingly are those can't really afford the car and its maintainance and care particulary about resale value (the resale value of a Ferrari plummets with high mileage). There's nothing intrinsic to a Ferrari that doesn't make it a daily driver. The question is can you afford to drive it as a daily car or not. The reason you choose not to drive your Ferrari daily is not because its some special passionate car, it's because you can't afford to, as proven by your fixation on resale value. People who can afford to drive Ferraris daily don't give a sh*t about resale value.
BTW, as for Italian cars getting more looks, it's not because they look better. It's because they're more vulgar looking (Sept. 2006 print issue of EVO called the F430 Spyder vulgar looking), the same way a gold diamond encrusted Rolex gets a look of looks. You know, I can take a Honda Civic and spend $20k and body kits, paint, and wheels and it will get more looks than an Italian car. Big whoop. Doesn't prove anything except lack of taste.
edit: Nick, passion has nothing to do with exclusivity, price, or how much people look at your car. I know several Miata owners that are more passionate about their cars than you are about your Ferrari. I know that's hard for you to wrap your head around, and for that I feel sorry for you.
David
Re: What's passion?
Quote:
nberry said:
Thuggy, Raz, Porsche are not built for passion. They do not generate excitement when seen on the street and certainly do not have any sound signature to speak of. The closest Porsche's that come to having passion are the GT2-3 but because they look like all other Porsche's they lose their appeal. I believe the CGT is outside the Porsche mainstream and thus really cannot be considered.
Thuggy, a Phantom on the street, though rare, does not stimulate the senses because it is not stylish nor does it have a presence. It lacks road appeal very much like most Porsche's.
Raz, I have driven the 996TT and I find it difficult to believe anyone would find it more fun than a 360. The 996TT was wickedly fast (as is the 997TT) but cold and uninspiring. It left me flat and could not wait to get back to my 360. If both were in my garage, I would use the Turbo for grocery shopping, mall shopping or whatever.
If I want genuine road excitement and inspired driving experience, the 360 is what I would choose. Both great cars but also, by a substantial margin, dissimilar.
Nick,
That's part of the point I was trying to make - Porsches do excite me when I see them on the street. Every time I see a 911 or Boxster, regardless of model year, I get excited (admittedly I get most enthused when I see a 997/993/987). And they do have a sound signature, while I hated the sound of my 996TT I loved the sound of my NA 911s. It's not the sound of a Ferrari or Lamborghini, but that doesn't make it a sound that's not pleasant to me. While I agree that many Porsches look similar, and from afar it's difficult to tell them apart, the styling isn't lost on me. I absolutely love the way the 997 looks; again, it's not a F430, but I still love it.
I didn't say that the 996TT was more fun than my 360, but it did fill in the gaps that the 360 left behind. The 996TT made me appreciate my 360 more and the 360 made me appreciate the 996TT more, they were both marvelous.
If I could only have one sports car that would also have to double as my daily driver (in all weather conditions, to any destination) the 996TT (and I'm sure the 997TT) would be it. While I get that you view having a $140K car as a waste for a daily driver, not everyone feels this way. To me, one of the best parts of having a ridiculous daily driver is that it can make even the most normal journeys exciting. I've had a handful of 911s in the past, and they've always done that for me. I'd call that passion.
Lots of other cars have passion; I've always loved BMW's 3-series cars, even when I had my 360 I still enjoyed driving a 3 series. Not to say that I was ready to trade in the 360 for a 325 but rather, I still viewed those cars as having passion and being fun to drive.
It all has to do with perspective in my opinion; it's easy to discount Porsche and say that it builds passionless cars if your comparison is effectively a $300K F430 Spider (what it would cost for most in the US to get into one). I do believe that for you, someone who has one of the most impressive modern day cars in existence and someone who has no interest in an overly practical sports car as a daily driver, most Porsches may seem useless. But as valid as your point is to you, the counterpoint is to others.
Nick, by no means am I trying to come down on you. I find a lot of value in your posts and I do agree with you on some issues, I just feel the need to offer balance to the discussion
Re: couldn't agree more
Raz wrote
"Nick, by no means am I trying to come down on you. I find a lot of value in your posts and I do agree with you on some issues, I just feel the need to offer balance to the discussion "
Raz as I do your's. I suspect your more of a car fan since your able to find merit in most cars. I no not.
I have own Porsche's when they were special and unique. The 911 stood on its own. Today, I cannot find any specialness or passion when a 911 looks like a Boxster, Cayman or even a SUV Cayenne. Though it performs well, it has no other redeeming attributes. I can find many cars for less cost that meets that criteria.
David, your right. I cannot afford most cars. And I certainly cannot afford a Porsche given its huge depreciation tendencies.
"Nick, by no means am I trying to come down on you. I find a lot of value in your posts and I do agree with you on some issues, I just feel the need to offer balance to the discussion "
Raz as I do your's. I suspect your more of a car fan since your able to find merit in most cars. I no not.
I have own Porsche's when they were special and unique. The 911 stood on its own. Today, I cannot find any specialness or passion when a 911 looks like a Boxster, Cayman or even a SUV Cayenne. Though it performs well, it has no other redeeming attributes. I can find many cars for less cost that meets that criteria.
David, your right. I cannot afford most cars. And I certainly cannot afford a Porsche given its huge depreciation tendencies.
Re: What's passion?
Quote:
W211 said:Quote:
DavidSF said:edit: Nick, passion has nothing to do with exclusivity, price, or how much people look at your car.
Well said.
I dunno... . I think you're going ddown teh wrong path here. Think a minute... .
Take a supermodel. I could get reeeeeeally passionate about "owning" a supermodel. She's exclusive, pricey, and lots of people want to look at her... .
Re: What's passion?
Quote:
MMD said:
I dunno... . I think you're going ddown teh wrong path here. Think a minute... .
Take a supermodel. I could get reeeeeeally passionate about "owning" a supermodel. She's exclusive, pricey, and lots of people want to look at her... .
Different types of passion I suppose. Some will prefer to take the trophy girl out to clubs to show off, while others get a bigger kick enjoying her 24/7 as the 'daily driver'.
Re: couldn't agree more
Quote:
nberry said:
Raz wrote
"Nick, by no means am I trying to come down on you. I find a lot of value in your posts and I do agree with you on some issues, I just feel the need to offer balance to the discussion "
Raz as I do your's. I suspect your more of a car fan since your able to find merit in most cars. I no not.
I have own Porsche's when they were special and unique. The 911 stood on its own. Today, I cannot find any specialness or passion when a 911 looks like a Boxster, Cayman or even a SUV Cayenne. Though it performs well, it has no other redeeming attributes. I can find many cars for less cost that meets that criteria.
David, your right. I cannot afford most cars. And I certainly cannot afford a Porsche given its huge depreciation tendencies.
I didn't say most sports cars. Are you putting Ferrari in the same league as most sports cars?
I said you can't afford to drive your Ferrari. If you drove your Ferrari as much as a Porsche, the depreciation would be worse!
David
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