Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - PCCB brakes - Page1

Aug 29, 2003 6:02:50 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002

PCCB brakes

For those that are interested in the PCCB topic, there is a very interesting on-going thread now on Rennlist.com:

PCCB question...

The thread is long but gets better the further you get into it.

Stephen

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Aug 30, 2003 3:50:37 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: FixedWing

Re: PCCB brakes

Wow! Those guys are really into brakes!

Looks like your kind of discussion FixedWing.

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Aug 30, 2003 4:41:51 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: FixedWing

Re: PCCB brakes

I know how much development work Porsche put into the PCCB, so I'm not sure if such (highly interesting of course) theoretical discussions are really helping.

One issue regarding PCCB development was...cost.
So they tried to adapt the current brake system with all components to the PCCB. Same applies to tires.
A perfect and optimized PCCB system would require different components (incl. completely different electronics and mechanial parts) and of course optimized tires. Not to speak about the pads which could be better but also much more expensive. Would you pay 1000 bucks for one set of pads which last 2500 mls? I don't think so.

Personally I think that the PCCB is still in it's first generation and the ONLY reason I'd personally buy it would be LOOKS: nice yellow calipers with larger discs. I'm not sure this is worth the money however.

The new GT2 (MY 2004) already has an overworked PCCB system (incl. some of the hardware components and some aerodynamical changes to supply the brake swith more air) and it remains to see how good it performs on the track.
The truth however is: if you're into serious track racing, going for the regular steel brakes might be a better idea. Honestly.
And last not least: replacement cost of the PCCB rotos is incredibly high, another point against PCCB on the track.

To make it short: right now my perfect Porsche track car would be a GT3 RS without PCCB. Period.

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Aug 30, 2003 7:12:39 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002; Reply to: RC

Development of PCCB's

Evidentially, not enough development work went into the PCCB's.

I understand the need to minimise development costs. But certain minimum levels of development and testing are necessary before a product is brought to market. If it is not ready, then it shouldn't be marketed. We all know that Porsche AG was in a race to market with their PCCB's.

Currently I'm paying something like Euro 500 for a full set of pads which last about 2500 miles. I don't see a lot of difference between this and $1000 for 2500 miles. They're both outrageous.

Totally agree with everything else you say as regards the wisdom of the PCCB's today.

The GT3-RS is a major disappointment.

Stephen

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Aug 30, 2003 7:13:29 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002; Reply to: GM Austin

Aug 30, 2003 9:15:53 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: FixedWing

Re: Development of PCCB's

Quote:
Evidentially, not enough development work went into the PCCB's...

The GT3-RS is a major disappointment.

Stephen

The problem is not the involved development work, they did enough of it. The problem is final cost for the customer, Porsche doesn't want to give away PCCB for free.

Regarding the GT3 RS: did you drive one?

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Aug 30, 2003 11:21:22 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002; Reply to: RC

PCCB's & GT3's.

I really have to question the 'they did enough development' claim given some of what I have read in the cited thread and given my own experiences and that apparently they did not tailor the ABS/PSM system to the different rotors.

On the GT3-RS, point well taken. I am going by the specs. According to the latest, there is now only a 20 kg difference in weight between the current GT3 and the GT3-RS. To me, the RS seems like nothing more than a badge exercise. But let's see. I'm willing to wait with an open mind until the final product is out.

Stephen

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Sep 1, 2003 12:41:32 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: FixedWing

Maybe you should consider the new GT3-RS-ULW

The ULW (for Ultra Light Weight) has every single gram of excess weight removed so that the chassis is down to the bare essentials necessary to support a driver on wheels.

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Sep 1, 2003 11:15:58 PM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: FixedWing

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

Quote:
I really have to question the 'they did enough development' claim given some of what I have read in the cited thread and given my own experiences and that apparently they did not tailor the ABS/PSM system to the different rotors.

On the GT3-RS, point well taken. I am going by the specs. According to the latest, there is now only a 20 kg difference in weight between the current GT3 and the GT3-RS. To me, the RS seems like nothing more than a badge exercise. But let's see. I'm willing to wait with an open mind until the final product is out.

Stephen

There might only be a 20 kg difference between the GT3 and RS models, however there is a 50 kg difference between the RS and the GT3 CS. Apparently roll cages do have non-zero weight

In my opinion, it is a true RS because of the revised suspension. For me, as long as the RS will go around a race track a lot faster than a regular gt3, I'm happy.

You're right though, they should weigh less. I don't see why the RS should be compromised at all. The regular GT3 is a great car for those who need more comfort. Give me a street legal cup car for my RS.

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Sep 2, 2003 4:14:54 AM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Maybe you should consider the new GT3-RS-ULW

Quote:
The ULW (for Ultra Light Weight) has every single gram of excess weight removed so that the chassis is down to the bare essentials necessary to support a driver on wheels.

The driver also enjoys enhanced thrills by hurtling head first down the grade of his/her choice. Safety gear optional.

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Sep 2, 2003 8:10:27 AM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Yargk

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

Quote:
There might only be a 20 kg difference between the GT3 and RS models, however there is a 50 kg difference between the RS and the GT3 CS.

as far as i am informed the GT3 CS is 30 kg heavier than the standard GT3 -- due to the clubsport equipment like rollcage etc.

so the RS is 50 kg lighter than the GT3 and 20 kg lighter than the GT3 CS.

i agree to stephen that it could mainly be a badge job. but a desirable one... at least they got me!

and i still have some hopes that porsche knows about the heritage. and on the other hand the "ordinary" GT3 is such a refined car that it's hard to improve it even further AND porsche does realistic weight measurements. the official ferrari weight data of the challenge stradale differs a lot to the weight measurements by auto motor sport magazine.

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Sep 2, 2003 8:55:48 AM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: zzboba

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

Quote:

so the RS is 50 kg lighter than the GT3 and 20 kg lighter than the GT3 CS.

You have this reversed, but I think you get the idea.

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Sep 2, 2003 11:02:54 AM

LG1: Pilot; Loc: Italy; Posts: 433, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2002; Reply to: Yargk

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

I agree with you that as for the specs the RS doesn't seem very different than a GT3 Cs, and I really hoped for a power increase and more pronounced exterior differences.

So...Why did I keep my order?

Because I think that Porsche wouldn't resurrect the iconic and legendary RS badge and put it on a car that wasn't really fantastic to drive and special.
I don't know why, but I have a feeling that the RS will actually end up as a quite different piece of metal compared to the GT3.
I guess we'll have to wait and see...

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Sep 2, 2003 12:30:42 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002; Reply to: Yargk

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

Quote:
Give me a street legal cup car for my RS.

This is the direction I'm headed also.

Stephen

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Sep 3, 2003 3:12:14 PM

Paul Work: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 26, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: LG1

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

Quote:
I agree with you that as for the specs the RS doesn't seem very different than a GT3 Cs, and I really hoped for a power increase and more pronounced exterior differences.

So...Why did I keep my order?

Because I think that Porsche wouldn't resurrect the iconic and legendary RS badge and put it on a car that wasn't really fantastic to drive and special.
I don't know why, but I have a feeling that the RS will actually end up as a quite different piece of metal compared to the GT3.
I guess we'll have to wait and see...

Pretty much the same reason why I have sold my two month old GT3 and await the arrival of my new baby in November!!

Can you imagine what the press would say if it was nothing short of brilliant. Could Porsche afford to have the brand diluted anymore? Cayenne anyone??

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PCCB brakes

Re: PCCB brakes

Re: PCCB brakes

Development of PCCB's

Guess you know me too well GM... :-)

Re: Development of PCCB's

PCCB's & GT3's.

Maybe you should consider the new GT3-RS-ULW

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

Re: Maybe you should consider the new GT3-RS-ULW

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

Re: PCCB's & GT3's.

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