Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S?? - Page1

Apr 29, 2005 12:30:56 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004

295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

Do you think that the rear wheel dimensions (original) 295/30 -19 are too big for the 997S ???

i m considering this issue as very little car manufacturers follow this way,even ferraris have smaller wheels in the back !!

Arent they a little too big for 355 HP??

Wait, i know the look gorgeous in the eye and really make the car look aggresive, BUT i m speaking performance wise

The S version is 30 hp more than the base, if the S had the same wheel setup as the base version, it would be greatly quicker in m opinion,from the base model..
Whereas with these fat tyres the performance is more close to the base model...

What is your opinion??Only performance wise not for looks

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Apr 29, 2005 12:56:59 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21154, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

The reason 911's always have had such fat rear tires is because the engine is right in the back of the rear wheels and they need to be larger than a front engine car's for example, which in turn have larger front wheels than the 911 for the same reason, and mid-engined cars somewhere in between. Though sometimes for aesthetical reasons, rather than performance, that seems to control the industry these days, cars are fitted with rear wheels that have nothing to do with their performance needs, like AMG's and such. So its can vary.

Of the 911 models, the one I think has tires that are to wide for the car is the C4S. 285 rears is ridiculous for 320HP AND AWD! ... understeer...

For 18" wheels carerras, the rear size was 265 (as oposed to the 255 for the 17" wheels) which was perfect, but since the C4S is widebody the 265 rears looked too skinny and this is why they had to go make the rears larger. At the same time they made all 18" wheel fitted carreras 285 as well. For reference on to how large these are, the MkI GT3 I believe used 295 rear and it had 360HP, lighter and RWD...

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Apr 29, 2005 1:05:37 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

Carlos, all agreed, but the C4S had 295/35 18 at the rear:) i ckecked today the brochure. Way too large!!

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Apr 29, 2005 1:08:46 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

What do you think about putting in a base 997 the 19 carrera S wheel setup???

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Apr 29, 2005 2:00:45 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21154, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

295? thats ever worse IMO. I though it was 285.

I don't know about the 997, but I think they are too wide as well but who knows

As to the diameter, since the 997 PASM/-20mm was designed for the 19" in mind then it would be OK for the base 997 as well but I would get the PASM at least, don't know how the standard suspension of the base copes with 19" wheels.

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Apr 29, 2005 2:44:25 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

i have the PASM thinking of uprgade to 19 inches..
As i see it:

PROS:

Looks,more aggresive
More presice steering
No "balancing from bigger tire profiles

Cons
Expensive
Harsher Ride
Lost of the "warning" edge before the car starts to understeer/oversteer....

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May 3, 2005 3:11:18 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

It's an interesting dilema dilinger. I agree that the 997 seems to look better with 19 inch wheels, but I wonder if that's because by far most of the advertising shows the 997 with 19 inch wheels on it. For example, if you were to buy a 996 GT3, what color would you get? Chances are, you're thinking yellow. How 'bout a 996 Turbo - bet you're thinking silver. The image we see most in advertising seems to haunt us and become the most desireable. I know I've fallen prey to this before.

Apart from looks, the standard 997 is basically a 996. There is good agreement that the optimal wheel size for the 996 was 18 for performance. It makes sense that that also would hold true for the standard 997.

Carlos makes an interesting point about PASM and the -20 mm LSD suspension having been designed with 19's in mind. I seriously wonder how much 18's would affect that though.

As an aside, I am really keen to hear comparisons between the standard suspension setup, PASM, and the -20 mm LSD suspension. From what I've heard so far, most folks don't like the sport suspension mode of PASM b/c it's too harsh and stiff. Haven't heard much about the -20 mm, but it's not even available in this part of the world. Classic.

-SB

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May 3, 2005 12:55:21 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

Quote:
Dilinger said:
No "balancing from bigger tire profiles

What do you mean by this?

-SB

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May 3, 2005 1:08:12 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

I mean that the bigger tire profiles make the car feel a little "jumpy" whereas smaller tire profile like the 30 of the 19" feels more solid and more precise

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May 3, 2005 1:13:44 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59594, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

My opinion (referring to your question) is: HOT AIR.

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May 3, 2005 1:16:54 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

what do you mean RC?

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May 3, 2005 1:54:07 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

By the way dilinger, I remember the pics you posted of your car very well. I for one, think it looks GORGEOUS.

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May 3, 2005 2:24:19 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

thank you Silver Bullet, really

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May 3, 2005 11:52:39 PM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

In my opinion the problem is not that the rears are too big, it's that the front is too narrow. People run 255 front, 315 rear on lighter less powerful earlier 911s with a lot of success (lap times about as good as a GT3). Why? grip. I think a great setup on a 997 would be 265 front 315 rear since they should have a good balance (less understeer since you're adding 3 cm to the front and only 2 to the rear) and tons of grip. PS2s come in this size as well.

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May 3, 2005 11:58:30 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59594, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

Quote:
Dilinger said:
what do you mean RC?

I mean your question doesn't make much sense to me.
And regarding the understeer everybody seems to talk about: my car with 19'' wheels doesn't show any understeer but a very neutral behaviour followed by heavy and sudden oversteer. So I suppose the understeer (if there is any) has to do with the suspension setup and not the tire size, etc.

And I would like to add something to understeer discussions: if your car "slides" over the front wheels, this doesn't mean you have understeer, this just means that you missed the optimal braking point and steered in too late. resulting in the front wheels to "slide", something which can be mistaken for understeer. I'm sorry I can't explain it better in English but I really don't have any understeer on my car.

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May 4, 2005 5:01:30 AM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

Quote:
RC said:
And I would like to add something to understeer discussions: if your car "slides" over the front wheels, this doesn't mean you have understeer, this just means that you missed the optimal braking point and steered in too late. resulting in the front wheels to "slide", something which can be mistaken for understeer. I'm sorry I can't explain it better in English but I really don't have any understeer on my car.

That's actually a very good description RC. Many people don't know to adjust their line through the corner in order to not get the front tires to slide. There's a fine line between that and genuine understeer where you can't get it to turn in.

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May 4, 2005 8:53:21 AM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Yargk

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

RC, i get exactly your point,but i never spoke about understeer because i dont have it in my car.
I can tell the difference your are describing above.

I said that with the carrera S setup over the standard's carrera the base model can have higher limits at cornering, and better stability at staights(high speeds)

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May 4, 2005 8:49:01 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59594, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

Quote:
Dilinger said:
I said that with the carrera S setup over the standard's carrera the base model can have higher limits at cornering, and better stability at staights(high speeds)

I doubt it, especially because the 19'' Michelin Pilot tires are more sporty than the usual 18'' tires available for the 18'' rims. I also don't see any roll radius difference, maybe unsprung weight (I still don't have the 18'' vs. 19'' weight figures

) but you have to be a professional race car driver to feel the difference.

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May 5, 2005 9:17:58 AM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: 295/30-19 too extreme for 997S??

So RC, your opinion is, that changing 18" to 19" will be just for the looks>? and they will add no performance benefits.....

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