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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

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    Apr 15, 2005 11:28:55 PM

    brickster
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    brickster
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    Is it a problem?

    Just ordered a 997 to replace a 99 996 cab. I was reading an Automobile magaizne review that stated:

    "Ah, yes, the brakes. On nine out of ten days, the combination of monoblock four-piston calipers and massive ventilated rotors performs with aplomb: the brakes are attentive, progressive, full of strength and staying power. When the roads are covered with slush and snow and salt and spray, however, the stoppers suddenly respond with pupil-widening lag and need precious extra moments to wipe the wet off the discs. And this was not just an occasional problem. The phenomenon stayed with us all the way back home to Stuttgart, and it took the edge off what otherwise was a truly sparkling performance. We can only hope that Porsche will fit more suitable pads and/or more comprehensive splash plates to fix this flaw as soon as possible."

    Is this a problem in everyday use in a snowbelt area? How about in rain?

    Apr 15, 2005 11:54:32 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Carlos from Spain
    Loc: Spain. , Spain
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    Reply to: brickster

    Re: Is it a problem?

    I take it they are talking about the PCCB brakes?

    Apr 16, 2005 12:16:19 AM

    brickster
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Is it a problem?

    no. i think it was the non-pccb. here is the link:

    http://automobilemag.com/reviews/convertibles/0504_porsche_911_cabriolet/

    Apr 16, 2005 9:13:34 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Carlos from Spain
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    Reply to: brickster

    Re: Is it a problem?

    Never herd that happen to anyone and the 996TT has the same brakes and has been around for 5 years now.

    Apr 16, 2005 11:59:31 AM

    jjr1
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    jjr1
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Is it a problem?

    I drove mine through the snow and the Alps last weekend and performed no end of hard braking manouevers and there were definitely no problems at all with the brakes.

    I also used it on track in the wet and again no problems so I guess this article is referring to a one off incident

    Apr 16, 2005 12:04:54 PM

    jboyko
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    jboyko
    Loc: NEWARK, NJ
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Is it a problem?

    It doesn't really say if the brakes are PCCB's or not. I tried to look at the pictures, but the pictures suck so much, I thought they were taken by the guys on the Apprentice. If they are PCCB's then all of us know the issue of them when they are wet; except for the five people in the world that do not experience this issue.

    jb

    Apr 16, 2005 1:14:40 PM

    brickster
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    brickster
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    Reply to: jboyko

    Re: Is it a problem?

    i agree with you about the pictures. i had been collecting 997S pix as a screensaver. no keepers there. thanks to all for the information. i will be off to vermont with confidence when it arrives.

    Apr 16, 2005 1:55:26 PM

    Dubliner
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    Reply to: brickster

    Re: Is it a problem?

    The first time I drove my 997s in heavy rain here (the Taconic, for those of you know it) I was surprised at how poor the braking was - poor, that is, in light of the superb dry braking. I think there's something to it. I'm definitely a little nervous in the rain, whereas in my Merc wagon I'm fearless.

    Apr 16, 2005 3:53:57 PM

    brickster
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    brickster
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    Reply to: Dubliner

    Re: Is it a problem?

    The Taconic is the more likely driving venue for me than the Alps or the track. I wonder why your experience is different from the others. Could it be that the harder and more frequent the braking (i.e., the Alps and the track), the less wet the brakes and the more effective the braking. Yet that does not seem to fit with the Automobile magazine story. Dubliner, do you have pccbs? Is the "poor" dangerously so or just in comparison to dry? Somewaht of a concern that your merc wagon performs better than your 997S in these conditions.

    Apr 16, 2005 4:07:56 PM

    MKW
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Is it a problem?

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Never herd that happen to anyone and the 996TT has the same brakes and has been around for 5 years now.



    My Turbo's std brakes have a perceptible loss of " bite " when first pressed after driving in heavy rain.( Exactly like you get when you use the brakes the first couple times right after washing the car ) Been like that since day 1. Much more so than other cars I've driven, incl prev 911s.
    I see that current MBZ brakes, even the non SBC ones coming on the new S class , all have incorporated a feature where the pads are " dried " automatically against the rotor intermittently while driving in rain. Of obvious benefit since it might save you 50-100 ft of stopping distance in a sudden panic stop ( more likely in rain )vs rain soaked pads .

    Apr 16, 2005 4:23:25 PM

    RCA
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    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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    Reply to: brickster

    Re: Is it a problem?

    My PCCB brakes have a weird behaviour: when I wash the car in winter time with a high pressure washing "stick" incl. cleaning solution, after the washing, I have almost NO brake performance at all and I need to apply the brakes very hard several times to get back the normal braking performance. I'm not sure Porsche is really aware of this because when I reported it, they were looking at me like I was talking about a mystery.

    But to their rescue I have to say that I drove the car in the worst possible driving conditions (snow, snow mud, snow & rain, wet streets covered with white salt solution, etc.) and never had a braking problem.

    Maybe Porsche should look into this more carefullyand try to find out why this happens. I know it was a very common problem on Audi cars in the past, there has been some sort of "scandal" over here in Germany regarding this issue.

    Apr 16, 2005 4:45:02 PM

    brickster
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    brickster
    Loc: New Jersey
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Is it a problem?

    Hmmmm! I must say I am a bit confused by the collective experiences above. The Porsche website states:
    "The 911 is famous for its powerful acceleration – and its powerful braking. On both new models, the standard braking system is one of the most advanced ever featured in a standard production car. Rapid deceleration is combined with excellent fade-resistance and straight-line stability in even the toughest road and track conditions. The monobloc aluminium fixed calipers are extremely rigid and offer a high-precision braking action. The calipers are quick to grip and release, while pedal travel is short and easy to modulate. On the 911 Carrera, the calipers are four-piston units with an elegant black anodised finish. Disc diameter is 318 mm at the front and 299 mm at the rear. The added performance of the 911 Carrera S is matched by bigger, stronger four-piston fixed calipers with a larger pad surface and 330-mm discs front and rear. The brakes are derived from the 911 Turbo and feature the same distinctive red paint finish.
    Both new models are equipped with cross-drilled discs for optimum braking in the wet. This design enables faster response by allowing rapid dispersal of the water vapour generated under braking. All four discs are also internally vented for better heat dispersal.

    Other improvements include four-channel ABS offering a more consistent, low-pulse action. The 10-inch brake booster enables easier pedal inputs, while the modified spoiler elements in the air ducts to the brakes provide better cooling performance. Together, these components form a standard braking system that is significantly more powerful than the engine."

    optimum braking in the wet does not exactly translate to fear on the taconic driving in the rain. I can't figure out where the disconnect is.

    Apr 16, 2005 4:58:30 PM

    MKW
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    MKW
    Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Is it a problem?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    My PCCB brakes have a weird behaviour: when I wash the car in winter time with a high pressure washing "stick" incl. cleaning solution, after the washing, I have almost NO brake performance at all and I need to apply the brakes very hard several times to get back the normal braking performance. I'm not sure Porsche is really aware of this because when I reported it, they were looking at me like I was talking about a mystery.





    As I stated above, after washing my car, the Turbo will almost skate right through the first stop sign at the end of my block with very little stopping power. I've learned to pump brakes/make several short stops the first 50 feet to " wipe away " some water- but it still takes a couple of blocks of driving before they feel normanl. Must be something about the brake pad composition ? I hope the brake pads will " bite " enough on initial pedal if a big-rig truck suddenly jacknifes in front of me on a rain soaked urban freeway with all of us going 75 mph.

    Apr 16, 2005 8:29:45 PM

    Dubliner
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    Reply to: brickster

    Re: Is it a problem?

    Quote:
    brickster said:
    The Taconic is the more likely driving venue for me than the Alps or the track. I wonder why your experience is different from the others. Could it be that the harder and more frequent the braking (i.e., the Alps and the track), the less wet the brakes and the more effective the braking. Yet that does not seem to fit with the Automobile magazine story. Dubliner, do you have pccbs? Is the "poor" dangerously so or just in comparison to dry? Somewaht of a concern that your merc wagon performs better than your 997S in these conditions.



    I don't have PCCB's. I've really been in this crappy weather only once in the 997S; winter was coming in and switched to the MB for winter driving. It could just be that you need to prime them from time to time to dry them out as a precaution, but as I say I was slightly anxious of them, considering how great they are in the dry.
    I am planning on switching to the C4 when it comes out, but will want to make sure that the brakes are top-notch in the wet and snow, otherwise there'll be no point in going 4wd...
     
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