Crown

waiting for PDK:

Enmanuel,

A counter argument: no screen at all in front of the driver.  A heads up display with speed and range is all an electric car needs.  Buttons (or a small central screen) for ventilation and music controls, plus a central screen for all other controls and menus.

HUD aren't the solution.

Some people gets distracted by HUD, RC to name one. 

Those that can compartmentalize the HUD info love it cause the eyes aren't moving much if at all to check vitals. 

Touchscreens, are only there to save money. One touch screen can replaced a good number of buttons and wiring. They are dangerous to use while in motion and should have been banned inside automobiles. 

As for what's need for a electric car, I would much prefer to know the speed, the instantaneous kW output of the motor, which wheel is getting power and how much. Also want to know how much kW a braking event is putting back into the battery. Battery temp, battery capacity, in % AND kWh. Also whether the physical brakes are being used. RPM of the electric motor would be nice too, and also what gear I am in. 

If one wants to dumb down the information given to the driver, then it might just well be one of those airport shuttle train between terminals, you get while terminal is coming up and maybe the speed of the train, that's it. What's the point?

I must admit that I like the simple Tesla. It is deceiving since the car does 10x more stuff than any other car. No start button etc and when I’m done I open the door and get out.  The car goes into park, turns off and locks up.  So simple. Tons of features, too many to mention, and no buttons or switches. Yet everything you need is at your fingertips. Best audio system ever too.  Not even visible air vents.  All other cars look like cluttered old messes now. Even those with all the screens still are way too busy for me.  It took me about an hour to get used to not having a display over the wheel right in front of me.  Speed is easy to see and even without the sound I quickly learned to.judge speed visually.  Of course I’m always in first gear so what gear is not important except maybe when in reverse. The remaining  range and stuff like that because it is never an issue.  Nothing of interest going on but it is always displayed at f you want to know kWh or power peaks or tire temps or brake temps or battery temps or motor temps or tire pressures. It’s all there but hardly important. 
My favorite is running the AC without impacting performance at all. Maybe uses a bit of electric power but it does not impact acceleration one bit. It is alway crazy quick. 

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-lucid-air-dream-edition-r-exclusive-first-drive-review/

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

waiting for PDK:

Enmanuel,

A counter argument: no screen at all in front of the driver.  A heads up display with speed and range is all an electric car needs.  Buttons (or a small central screen) for ventilation and music controls, plus a central screen for all other controls and menus.

Any Ferrari Monza for sale right now is close to 3MM. Works for the Elva, AM Speedster and a bunch more. I’m not implying that all design should be extreme and reductive, the mainstream consumer doesn’t actually want hyper focused products, and 99% of companies would rather have mass appeal instead of hitting a glorious niche. And for most people (sadly myself included at the moment) a car is better off being a nice place to sit in while you go about your day, rather than a purpose built tools for pulling at your smile and carving pavement. My gripe with Tesla has always been that their language, when it comes do design and marketing is immensely misleading, making people think they’re getting something they are not. Elon knows his clients better than they know themselves and he can pin point the exact marketing term that will keep them in his corner, for better or worse. 

Enmanuel:

waiting for PDK:

Enmanuel,

A counter argument: no screen at all in front of the driver.  A heads up display with speed and range is all an electric car needs.  Buttons (or a small central screen) for ventilation and music controls, plus a central screen for all other controls and menus.

Any Ferrari Monza for sale right now is close to 3MM. Works for the Elva, AM Speedster and a bunch more. I’m not implying that all design should be extreme and reductive, the mainstream consumer doesn’t actually want hyper focused products, and 99% of companies would rather have mass appeal instead of hitting a glorious niche. And for most people (sadly myself included at the moment) a car is better off being a nice place to sit in while you go about your day, rather than a purpose built tools for pulling at your smile and carving pavement. My gripe with Tesla has always been that their language, when it comes do design and marketing is immensely misleading, making people think they’re getting something they are not. Elon knows his clients better than they know themselves and he can pin point the exact marketing term that will keep them in his corner, for better or worse. 

Oh boy, now you gonna get the wraith of Leawood 

nberry:

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-lucid-air-dream-edition-r-exclusive-first-drive-review/

Good thing they are not bias against Tesla. Lol. It’s pointless to mention that all car magazines have had it out for Tesla since they don’t advertise in their publications and it would royally piss off those who do if they did not. Looks like lucid will be advertising in motortrend. 
Notice that no car magazines said anything about the Plaid at all unless it is in context of it being beaten by the Nevera or in terms of the Lucid having some better specs.  Both cars not obtainable vs the Plaid but hey - it’s Elon who can’t be trusted to deliver reality.   Tesla is the new Trump… the powerful with weak ideas and no competitive chance hate disruption so the reporting will be pretty interesting to watch.  
Im happy to see an nice EV adding more choices for the consumers out there. Lucid will need the hype, good luck!

Porker:

It looks like a modern-day Buick to me, inside and out. 

Leawood911:

I must admit that I like the simple Tesla. It is deceiving since the car does 10x more stuff than any other car. No start button etc and when I’m done I open the door and get out.  The car goes into park, turns off and locks up.  So simple. Tons of features, too many to mention, and no buttons or switches. Yet everything you need is at your fingertips. Best audio system ever too.  Not even visible air vents.  All other cars look like cluttered old messes now. Even those with all the screens still are way too busy for me.  It took me about an hour to get used to not having a display over the wheel right in front of me.  Speed is easy to see and even without the sound I quickly learned to.judge speed visually.  Of course I’m always in first gear so what gear is not important except maybe when in reverse. The remaining  range and stuff like that because it is never an issue.  Nothing of interest going on but it is always displayed at f you want to know kWh or power peaks or tire temps or brake temps or battery temps or motor temps or tire pressures. It’s all there but hardly important. 
My favorite is running the AC without impacting performance at all. Maybe uses a bit of electric power but it does not impact acceleration one bit. It is alway crazy quick. 

Nailed it there. But only people with real experience understand this.

I'm quite confident that people who dismiss the clean minimalistic Tesla interior have never owned one. And it does require more than a test drive or sitting in it at a mall for 10 minutes to get it. Everything new takes time to adapt to, but when you get it, you will never go back.

Steve Ballmer laughed at the iPhone having no keyboard and Henry Ford nailed it: If we asked what people wanted, they would want a faster horse...

donatello:

Leawood911:

I must admit that I like the simple Tesla. It is deceiving since the car does 10x more stuff than any other car. No start button etc and when I’m done I open the door and get out.  The car goes into park, turns off and locks up.  So simple. Tons of features, too many to mention, and no buttons or switches. Yet everything you need is at your fingertips. Best audio system ever too.  Not even visible air vents.  All other cars look like cluttered old messes now. Even those with all the screens still are way too busy for me.  It took me about an hour to get used to not having a display over the wheel right in front of me.  Speed is easy to see and even without the sound I quickly learned to.judge speed visually.  Of course I’m always in first gear so what gear is not important except maybe when in reverse. The remaining  range and stuff like that because it is never an issue.  Nothing of interest going on but it is always displayed at f you want to know kWh or power peaks or tire temps or brake temps or battery temps or motor temps or tire pressures. It’s all there but hardly important. 
My favorite is running the AC without impacting performance at all. Maybe uses a bit of electric power but it does not impact acceleration one bit. It is alway crazy quick. 

Nailed it there. But only people with real experience understand this.

I'm quite confident that people who dismiss the clean minimalistic Tesla interior have never owned one. And it does require more than a test drive or sitting in it at a mall for 10 minutes to get it. Everything new takes time to adapt to, but when you get it, you will never go back.

Steve Ballmer laughed at the iPhone having no keyboard and Henry Ford nailed it: If we asked what people wanted, they would want a faster horse...

Let the Tesla circle jerk session begin......

Kumbaya, Elon can do no wrong,

Kumbaya , Tesla is the greatest, 

Kumbaya, Elon can do no wrong,

Kumbaya, Tesla is the greatest,

Whoopsy:

donatello:

Leawood911:

I must admit that I like the simple Tesla. It is deceiving since the car does 10x more stuff than any other car. No start button etc and when I’m done I open the door and get out.  The car goes into park, turns off and locks up.  So simple. Tons of features, too many to mention, and no buttons or switches. Yet everything you need is at your fingertips. Best audio system ever too.  Not even visible air vents.  All other cars look like cluttered old messes now. Even those with all the screens still are way too busy for me.  It took me about an hour to get used to not having a display over the wheel right in front of me.  Speed is easy to see and even without the sound I quickly learned to.judge speed visually.  Of course I’m always in first gear so what gear is not important except maybe when in reverse. The remaining  range and stuff like that because it is never an issue.  Nothing of interest going on but it is always displayed at f you want to know kWh or power peaks or tire temps or brake temps or battery temps or motor temps or tire pressures. It’s all there but hardly important. 
My favorite is running the AC without impacting performance at all. Maybe uses a bit of electric power but it does not impact acceleration one bit. It is alway crazy quick. 

Nailed it there. But only people with real experience understand this.

I'm quite confident that people who dismiss the clean minimalistic Tesla interior have never owned one. And it does require more than a test drive or sitting in it at a mall for 10 minutes to get it. Everything new takes time to adapt to, but when you get it, you will never go back.

Steve Ballmer laughed at the iPhone having no keyboard and Henry Ford nailed it: If we asked what people wanted, they would want a faster horse...

 

Let the Tesla circle jerk session begin......

Kumbaya, Elon can do no wrong,

Kumbaya , Tesla is the greatest, 

Kumbaya, Elon can do no wrong,

Kumbaya, Tesla is the greatest,

 

Minimalism has also levels... for me the Model 3 design is a joke... why do you have to eliminate every kind of excitment??? there is nothing left... you can create an minimalistic evirements, but it should also make sense.... What s all that bullshit with the new wheel in the Tesla??? everybody but really everybody is complaining about the controls on that wheel, at least what I saw on youtube. 

The LUCID is also minimalistic, but not numb like a Tesla, you still get some excitement IMO.(but I have to admit the the PLAID'S interior got better, except fot that stupid wheel) At that moment LUCID is the way better Tesla in my opinion! (of course if all the specs are as promissed)

Whoopsy:

donatello:

Leawood911:

I must admit that I like the simple Tesla. It is deceiving since the car does 10x more stuff than any other car. No start button etc and when I’m done I open the door and get out.  The car goes into park, turns off and locks up.  So simple. Tons of features, too many to mention, and no buttons or switches. Yet everything you need is at your fingertips. Best audio system ever too.  Not even visible air vents.  All other cars look like cluttered old messes now. Even those with all the screens still are way too busy for me.  It took me about an hour to get used to not having a display over the wheel right in front of me.  Speed is easy to see and even without the sound I quickly learned to.judge speed visually.  Of course I’m always in first gear so what gear is not important except maybe when in reverse. The remaining  range and stuff like that because it is never an issue.  Nothing of interest going on but it is always displayed at f you want to know kWh or power peaks or tire temps or brake temps or battery temps or motor temps or tire pressures. It’s all there but hardly important. 
My favorite is running the AC without impacting performance at all. Maybe uses a bit of electric power but it does not impact acceleration one bit. It is alway crazy quick. 

Nailed it there. But only people with real experience understand this.

I'm quite confident that people who dismiss the clean minimalistic Tesla interior have never owned one. And it does require more than a test drive or sitting in it at a mall for 10 minutes to get it. Everything new takes time to adapt to, but when you get it, you will never go back.

Steve Ballmer laughed at the iPhone having no keyboard and Henry Ford nailed it: If we asked what people wanted, they would want a faster horse...

 

Let the Tesla circle jerk session begin......

Kumbaya, Elon can do no wrong,

Kumbaya , Tesla is the greatest, 

Kumbaya, Elon can do no wrong,

Kumbaya, Tesla is the greatest,

 

When I see people saying they like the bare, simplistic and cheap Tesla interiors, not minimalistic, that is different, they are just bare, simplistic, cheap and with little customization available in actual reality, to me it just shows how far people can go in believing what they want to believe, and like what they want to like when they have an interest in doing it due to bias. And I'm sure that they do eventually turn to like they interior, they are not lying, just that how they arrived at that situation is interesting to see. 

That’s a good name for a Tesla model… Tesla Kumbaya 

There is no try. Just do.

Lol. Of course personal attacks on those who disagree.  Too funny. As always. The only category remaining is interiors. At this point a bunch of car enthusiasts are stuck arguing which interior they prefer. Cost per mile, tech, all out performance is now all off the table.  Can’t even argue exhaust note when comparing EVs. Darn. 
 

No problem with Emma’s comment. There is no personal attack. Note how, if one person agrees with anything I say, they are included in the cult. Does it not get old guys?  Will it someday be okay to respect someone’s opinions and still disagree?  
Those who have not spent time with a Tesla continue to make observations which don’t make sense in real life. Sometimes it is like listening to teenage boys talking about sex though they’re virgins. Some strange notions of how stuff really works. 
My favorite - removing buttons removes the excitement. 

Tesla crusader 101... first take everything personal to play the victim card then proceed to belittle everybody else's opinions ... rinse and repeat... pri​​​​​​celess 

Carlos from Spain:

Tesla crusader 101... first take everything personal to play the victim card then proceed to belittle everybody else's opinions ... rinse and repeat... pri​​​​​​celess 

Hardly. It is more like the minute two people say something positive about Tesla those with insecurities and who think personal attacks sway intelligent people forget how silly it sounds.  You know how much this amuses me - I’m hardly a victim - I would just go away and that would be no fun.  Maybe I should be a Moderator?  I try to keep the peace and make things positive. 
Your comment also has nothing to do with cars or anything positive. it is yet another personal attack.  You just make assumptions and then forget the fact that belittling someone’s opinion is far different than actually belittling someone.
Me - ‘some people opinion would change if they spent time in the car and understood it’

Others (unnamed) - people who agree with Leawood are joining a circle jerk.  

Hello, we can do this all day. I’m pretty happy with objective reality on my side. I can disagree with your opinion without claiming you are part of a circle jerk or a cult.  Don’t you think that is a more interesting approach?

Anyway - why the hell did Tesla put a button on the plaid ‘joke’ for the horn?   The frigging pad for the airbag is right there and SHOULD be how you honk the horn. I call out stupid every time I see it and that is just fucked up. I expect them to stop doing that. Geeez. 
 

Getting really concerned about RC - if you see these posts, we miss ya and send our best wishes!  
Assuming he may see these posts - let’s just say hello. 

In a Tesla forum, anyone who voices anything negative about Tesla, they got banned. They do not tolerate anyone that don't agree with them.

In here, a primarily Porsche forum, no one gets banned for for saying negative stuff about Porsches. 

You two right now simply can't accept anything that's not positive about Tesla. That's the circle jerk syndrome. 

Pointing out stuff that's obvious isn't a personal attack or picking on Tesla, it's just......pointing out the obvious.

Whoopsy:

Pointing out stuff that's obvious isn't a personal attack or picking on Tesla, it's just......pointing out the obvious.

This. But then if you don't take any opinion over Tesla personally you can't play the victim card to try to discredit those differing opinions, which takes us back to the start, Tesla fans don't tolerate any opinion that is not positive about Tesla... and round and round it goes.

I have yet to see that behavior with Ferrari fans McLaren fans, Porsche fans, Lambo fans, etc... you cannot have a normal conversation with different opinions about Tesla, yet they feel offended when in the internet forums they are called a cult or fanboys 

Carlos from Spain:

Tesla crusader 101... first take everything personal to play the victim card then proceed to belittle everybody else's opinions ... rinse and repeat... pri​​​​​​celess 

Completely agree.  Even the mere mention of a defect or deficiency in a Tesla, and there are many, are met with calls of being personally affronted.  It’s become a bit tiring especially, as Nick pointed out above, we also criticize other marques on this forum.  Tesla, with the recent announcement that the Model 3 SR+ will use CATL prismatic cells in the States, has shown that there is not unique or proprietary with its battery packs. Tesla remains the whim of one man who is prone to hyperbole and chicanery. 
 

While one believes that the Lucid Air is late to market and it won’t occupy anything other than a market niche, its presence should help dim the aura around Tesla. 

Whoopsy:

In a Tesla forum, anyone who voices anything negative about Tesla, they got banned. They do not tolerate anyone that don't agree with them.

In here, a primarily Porsche forum, no one gets banned for for saying negative stuff about Porsches. 

You two right now simply can't accept anything that's not positive about Tesla. That's the circle jerk syndrome. 

Pointing out stuff that's obvious isn't a personal attack or picking on Tesla, it's just......pointing out the obvious.

 

I even say bad things about Tesla.  You can say anything you want about Tesla.  It f you insult people for enjoying and liking a car or features of a car I will always call you out it because it does not make any sense to treat people like that  

Am I responsible for how people act on some other forum?  Does that prevent me from differentiating between legit opinion vs crude insult?  Is calling someone part of a circle jerk a car opinion or an insult?  What crime of agreement did we commit?  This is silly stuff. It would make more sense for you to read and say - hey, right, circle jerk is an insult meant to personally humiliate. Why go on and try to make your point and defend such debate? 

CGX car nut:

Carlos from Spain:

Tesla crusader 101... first take everything personal to play the victim card then proceed to belittle everybody else's opinions ... rinse and repeat... pri​​​​​​celess 

Completely agree.  Even the mere mention of a defect or deficiency in a Tesla, and there are many, are met with calls of being personally affronted.  It’s become a bit tiring especially, as Nick pointed out above, we also criticize other marques on this forum.  Tesla, with the recent announcement that the Model 3 SR+ will use CATL prismatic cells in the States, has shown that there is not unique or proprietary with its battery packs. Tesla remains the whim of one man who is prone to hyperbole and chicanery. 
 

While one believes that the Lucid Air is late to market and it won’t occupy anything other than a market niche, its presence should help dim the aura around Tesla. 

See my reply to Nick.  You guys are all good friends here and the simple point I am making is there is a difference between personal attacks and discussion.  I don’t care if you don’t like Teslas and love all other EVs. If your reasoning is based on a misunderstanding of something I know about I will add my 2 cents. I’m Hopefully never insulting anyone and only adding information. Maybe valuable or not but my point of view. You guys are far more sensitive to anything reasonable I say than I am to the personal attacks.  I have driven more 911 miles and for more years than anyone else here so it’s up to all of you how you treat one of your own.  If you are proud of Porsche - and I am a die hard Porsche owner - you should be bit more open minded.  Don’t act like some assholes on a Tesla forum cause you can. I have never visited any other forums - much less a Tesla forum. 
It is just a car - geeez. (How many times have we had this same exact discussion ? 100?). I point out the difference between car opinions and insults and you think I am complaining about car opinions so you all unload with more insults hoping I will again react to the insults so you can accuse me of not allowing negative tesla opinions. Rinse and repeat. We can play this all day long guys.  
life is way too short.  Hope all is well - it must be if these are our problems - happy Sunday - love ya all 

Hmm, how is pointing out Tesla has a sub-par interior as compared to another American EV. personal?

Pointing out that Tesla has a new competitor as in Lucid Motor is considered personal? 

Really?

Whoopsy:

Hmm, how is pointing out Tesla has a sub-par interior as compared to another American EV. personal?

Pointing out that Tesla has a new competitor as in Lucid Motor is considered personal? 

Really?

 

Guess an inanimate object is an extension of him.   There’s no other explanation.  

Leawood911, not sure why you spend your time here trying to convince this group? Move on!

this forum seems completely dead anyway. If the highest activity on a Porsche forum is a thread about Corona virus and some other random off topics threads then u know that this forum had its glorydays.

Probably the reason why this forum is soon forgotten is the handfull voices in this thread who put off the rest of the group. I read up on some older threads, which was the reason I joined, but do realise now that the respectable and sound members are all gone.

donatello:

Leawood911, not sure why you spend your time here trying to convince this group? Move on!

this forum seems completely dead anyway. If the highest activity on a Porsche forum is a thread about Corona virus and some other random off topics threads then u know that this forum had its glorydays.

Probably the reason why this forum is soon forgotten is the handfull voices in this thread who put off the rest of the group. I read up on some older threads, which was the reason I joined, but do realise now that the respectable and sound members are all gone.

Just like anyone can leave at any time, so can you donatello. 

donatello:

Leawood911, not sure why you spend your time here trying to convince this group? Move on!

this forum seems completely dead anyway. If the highest activity on a Porsche forum is a thread about Corona virus and some other random off topics threads then u know that this forum had its glorydays.

Probably the reason why this forum is soon forgotten is the handfull voices in this thread who put off the rest of the group. I read up on some older threads, which was the reason I joined, but do realise now that the respectable and sound members are all gone.

The reason you joined is to spread the Tesla bible. 🤷🏻‍♂️ leawood on the other hand is hanging out with friends. 

Sorry we here doesn't like to circle jerk with you. You are welcome to go back to spread your gospel with the Tesla people and sing kumbaya together. That's your happy place, stay there.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, our door is quick, like Plain 0-60 quick. They have hit quite a few already who were on their way out. So I am being nice and giving you a fair warning.

Whoopsy:

Hmm, how is pointing out Tesla has a sub-par interior as compared to another American EV. personal?

Pointing out that Tesla has a new competitor as in Lucid Motor is considered personal? 

Really?

 Accusing anyone who agrees with anything I say is a circle jerk.  What does that have to do with EV completion or interior?  Are you done yet trying to defend your behavior?  I’m not. 

Whoopsy:

In a Tesla forum, anyone who voices anything negative about Tesla, they got banned. They do not tolerate anyone that don't agree with them.

In here, a primarily Porsche forum, no one gets banned for for saying negative stuff about Porsches. 

You two right now simply can't accept anything that's not positive about Tesla. That's the circle jerk syndrome. 

Pointing out stuff that's obvious isn't a personal attack or picking on Tesla, it's just......pointing out the obvious.

 

Find me where I complained about anything other than your circle jerk insult.  I did not care about your interior or EV opinions. You are welcome to those. They are amusing. I may call them wrong or inaccurate but I don’t insult you or people who agree with you.  If you are having a hard time understanding what an insult is versus a constructive comment I will be here to help. Cheers

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Hmm, how is pointing out Tesla has a sub-par interior as compared to another American EV. personal?

Pointing out that Tesla has a new competitor as in Lucid Motor is considered personal? 

Really?

 Accusing anyone who agrees with anything I say is a circle jerk.  What does that have to do with EV completion or interior?  Are you done yet trying to defend your behavior?  I’m not. 

See? This is exactly the definition of circle jerk. 

One has to agree with saying everything Tesla are the greatest. Nothing Tesla or Elon do can be wrong. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Compare that to say talking about the new GT3. Some love it , some hated it. It doesn't matter cause no one forces anyone else to agree with them that the GT3 is the greatest or the GT3 is a failure, it's a free flowing discussion pool. No one here blindly praising anything from Porsche. No one goes hyper defensive on the new GT3, not even diehard Porsche fans, very different behaviour than those that defends Teslas. 

Whether something is good or bad, it's a organic process, like cream and bubbles rises to the top naturally. One the years, it's widely accepted that Porsche make one of the best sports cars, there is no need for any Porsche fans to go around the internet to all car forums posting and boasting about how great a Porsche is. No one goes to a Ferrari forum or a Lamborghini forum and trash their cars while boasting a Porsche. But this is the exact behaviour or Tesla people. And one reason why they are hated universally. 

If Tesla is really the greatest at making EV, praises will come organically. People will keep buying them to make them successful regardless of competition. Right now they aren't. Their market share have been dropping off like a cliff with each new competitor entering. That means their cars aren't the best and they needed to work on it more to stay ahead.

Tesla fans can defend the sparse interior all they want, but the market will have the final say. Numbers are out there. People are buying more and more full featured interior EVs. 

Consumers have different priorities when buying stuff, some value straight line performance more, some value feature set, some goes for bang for the buck, some goes for better interior, some goes for styling. There is no one size fits all. What you valued the most doesn't means everyone will have the same taste. I valued the e-Tron's package more attractive than anything else, hence why I got one. It isn't a great seller and that's ok, I never once tried to convince anyone the e-Tron is the greatest, there are many more offerings from many other manufacturers for different consumers with different tastes. That's the beauty of free market and choices, everyone can make their own decision.

Do I go around the Internet trolling forums boasting about the e-Tron? Nope. It will be mentioned that I got a e-Tron and if someone else is interested and asked about it, I will tell more, that's it. 

Wow. You can say anything at all about any cars. I did not write anything at all about your Tesla opinions. You are welcome to them. My entire point was about insulting people and that I found the term circle jerk offensive.  So you go back to using it.  I fail to see the point you are trying to make to the rest?  That you can bait me endlessly?  It is just not nice.  Say anything about cars. Insult me again for what reason?

Did you not see me say nice things about other cars?  Do I ever talk shit about people?  Did you not see that I wrote the Plaid horn button is fucking stupid?  Why do you refuse to differentiate between insulting people and commenting on cars.
Why insult people. That is the point?  Geez. I can’t take another round of saying the same thing.