Jan 28, 2003 5:51:28 PM
- PSI GERMANY
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Crown
Board: Porsche - Cayenne
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Jan 28, 2003 6:30:50 PM
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RC
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Good question...
...I'd like to know that too. 
We have a little disagreement about the testdrive and the personal impressions, one reason why we (me and CR) had to review the testdrive a little bit. Unfortunately CR is very occupied right now and he didn't finish with the "last touch".
Should be available soon...hopefully.
If you have specific questions meanwhile, I can try to anwer them as good as possible.
We have a little disagreement about the testdrive and the personal impressions, one reason why we (me and CR) had to review the testdrive a little bit. Unfortunately CR is very occupied right now and he didn't finish with the "last touch".
Should be available soon...hopefully.
If you have specific questions meanwhile, I can try to anwer them as good as possible.
Jan 28, 2003 7:29:52 PM
- PSI GERMANY
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RC
Re: Good question...
I am very curious about your impressions. I had the opportunity
to drive both cars (Cayenne Turbo and "S" with and without
air suspension) at Barber Motorsportspark - brandnew race
track - in Birmingham Alabama for 3 days with the Porsche
Driving Experience Instructors.
The track quality of the Cayenne is more than impressive - I
followed comfortably the lead 996 with David Murry around the
track with the Cayenne Turbo. Braking is excellent but you feel
the laws of physics around the corners.
Off Road qualities nearly at a level of the Range Rover.
Overall: Excellent - GO Porsche Cayenne GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
to drive both cars (Cayenne Turbo and "S" with and without
air suspension) at Barber Motorsportspark - brandnew race
track - in Birmingham Alabama for 3 days with the Porsche
Driving Experience Instructors.
The track quality of the Cayenne is more than impressive - I
followed comfortably the lead 996 with David Murry around the
track with the Cayenne Turbo. Braking is excellent but you feel
the laws of physics around the corners.
Off Road qualities nearly at a level of the Range Rover.
Overall: Excellent - GO Porsche Cayenne GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 28, 2003 7:45:03 PM
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RC
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Re: Good question...
No doubt, the Cayenne Turbo with air suspension has excellent on-road qualities and off-road qualities aren't bad either. I wouldn't take a Cayenne to a track and if you want to do serious off-roading, a Toyota Landcruiser or a Landrover might be the better choice. 
Tires are crucial for off-roading, if you don't have a good off-road tire, forget about off-roading with street tires. Most people will have street tires on their Cayenne Turbo, so off-roading isn't that important I guess.
There are a few things which I didn't like about the Cayenne Turbo:
Tires are crucial for off-roading, if you don't have a good off-road tire, forget about off-roading with street tires. Most people will have street tires on their Cayenne Turbo, so off-roading isn't that important I guess. There are a few things which I didn't like about the Cayenne Turbo:
- Acceleration from standstill (throttle response):
from standstill, it took around 1-2 seconds when I fully pressed the throttle until the Cayenne started jumping forwards (literally). I don't know if this has to do with a turbo lag or if this is a problem of the automatic tranny - Fuel consumption:
I drove the Cayenne Turbo pretty fast but not at it's max, especially due to the winter tires. Couldn't get the fuel consumption below 29 litres / 100 km. Ouch.
- Exterior design:
my wife and most people I talked to (especially Porsche owners) don't like the Cayenne's design and prefer the VW Touareg over it. It is funny that non-Porsche owners seem to like the design much more, maybe because it is a Porsche?! - Price tag: the Cayenne Turbo is too expensive in my opinion. The "S" is the better deal. It is funny that most orders in Germany are for the Turbo version. Maybe people just think that the Cayenne Turbo is like the 996 Turbo, same performance. I talked to a few people who are interested in buying a Cayenne Turbo and I was surprised to hear how little they know about the Cayenne Turbo and it's performance. One guy was even pretty sure that it outperforms the GT2 on the track. Ouch again.
The 0-200 kph (125 mph) time of little over 20 seconds is impressive but still almost 8 seconds away from a GT2. Not to speak about the suspension system. And I'm not sure if the Cayenne Turbo tested by german AMS had really "only" 450 HP. 450 HP and 2.5 tons of weight = 5.5 sec. from 0-100 kph and little over 20 sec. from 0-200 kph? I have my doubts.
Re: Let's compare apples to apples....
The Cayenne has never been designed nor is intenting to be a racetrack machine. I think no one will ever compare the GT2 or the 996 TT with the Cayenne Turbo !!!!
I think by stretching it we can compare let's say a BMW M5 or an Audi RS6 with the Cayenne because they are high-end sporty "family" cars.
I think, Porsche AG by letting people drive the Cayenne on the racetrack is just trying to demonstrate the roadhandling and cornering abilities of the car but not its capacity to make astonishing chronos....
Even if Porsche engineers are among the best in the world, there is no way a 2.5 tons vehicle can be very agile nor a true genuine race car.
RC, I think your right foot must be very heavy to average 29l/100km .... I'm sure other drivers just saw the rear of the Cayenne .....
Jan 28, 2003 8:48:40 PM
- PSI GERMANY
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- Reply to: EricAlain
Re: Let's compare apples to apples....
I drove the Cayenne Turbo with 20" wheels w. Michelin Sport
tires and while Off Roading we used 18" wheels with Pirelli
Scorpion tires - both combinations are excellent.
It is nonsense to compare the Cayenne with 996 Turbo or GT2.
The production/built quality seems to be very good - we had
one of the first production cars available - brought in by
Porsche via air-freight beginning of January.
Launch for the U.S. is scheduled for March 15th.
tires and while Off Roading we used 18" wheels with Pirelli
Scorpion tires - both combinations are excellent.
It is nonsense to compare the Cayenne with 996 Turbo or GT2.
The production/built quality seems to be very good - we had
one of the first production cars available - brought in by
Porsche via air-freight beginning of January.
Launch for the U.S. is scheduled for March 15th.
Jan 28, 2003 9:00:00 PM
- PSI GERMANY
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Jan 28, 2003 9:22:03 PM
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RC
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Re: Let's compare apples to apples....
Well, hello from snowy and cold Bavaria.
Tomorrow and over the next few days, we're expecting a lot of snow over here. Didn't drive my 996 Turbo for almost a month now and the ML 55 starts to suck. I wish I had a Cayenne Turbo with a 1600 kg weight... 
Welcome to Rennteam.com, thanks for joining us.
We'll be in Florida (Orlando and Ft.Lauderdale) around march like every year, just can't wait to get there.
Tomorrow and over the next few days, we're expecting a lot of snow over here. Didn't drive my 996 Turbo for almost a month now and the ML 55 starts to suck.
I wish I had a Cayenne Turbo with a 1600 kg weight... Welcome to Rennteam.com, thanks for joining us.
We'll be in Florida (Orlando and Ft.Lauderdale) around march like every year, just can't wait to get there.
Jan 28, 2003 9:49:45 PM
- PSI GERMANY
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Reply to:
RC
Jan 28, 2003 10:03:34 PM
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RC
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Re: Let's compare apples to apples....
In reply to:
RC, let me know when you come to Florida. Would like to get together. Palm Beach is only a few miles from Ft. Lauderdale. Looking forward to see you
It would be a pleasure to meet you, thanks.
Unfortunately I'm with my wife and little 2-year old daughter, so everything is pretty unpredictable on our trip (as always
. It will be march but I don't have details yet. Probably no real problem, I always have my laptop with me and we have broadband internet access at both hotels in Orlando and Ft.Lauderdale. We'll stay in touch.
Jan 28, 2003 10:37:13 PM
- PSI GERMANY
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RC
Jan 29, 2003 9:02:17 AM
- S' Cayenne
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RC
Jan 29, 2003 6:10:11 PM
- PSI GERMANY
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Jan 29, 2003 6:13:14 PM
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RC
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Re: Good question...
At my dealer things seem different, he has more Turbo than S orders. BTW: I'm not sure the S is the better deal after reading a comparison test with the VW Touareg V10 Diesel and the BMW X5 4.6is. From 0-100 kph, the VW Touareg Diesel was slightly faster(!) than the Cayenne S. Oouch.
So if I'd live in Germany, I'd probably go for the VW Touareg Diesel if I want to save money or I'd buy the Cayenne Turbo. The Cayenne S doesn't make much sense then.
Another thing: the ML 55 AMG accelerates from 0-100 kph almost one second faster than the Cayenne S (tested by german AUTO ZEITUNG with 7.7 seconds - ML 55 with 6.8 and 6.9 seconds). The Cayenne Turbo is definetely the Cayenne to go with and ML 55 or BMW X5 4.6is owners shouldn't really think about an "upgrade" to the Cayenne S. It is not.
A little note regarding fuel consumption (which is VERY important to european drivers):
the VW Touareg V10 Diesel which is also slightly fast than the Cayenne S from 0-100 kph has a fuel consumption (Diesel!) of 12.7 litres / 100 km. The Cayenne S has a fuel consumption (98 octane fuel) of 18.5 litres / 100 km. Ouch again.
So the VW Touareg is definetely the better buy for european buyers in my opinion. Quality should be the same.
On-street performance (handling!) is slightly better on the Cayenne S as the test in AUTO ZEITUNG showed. Top speed is higher too on the Cayenne S (242 kph vs. 225 kph for the Touareg) but is it really that important on a SUV? I don't know.
What AUTO ZEITUNG criticizes on the Cayenne S: build quality (interior). They state that the Touareg's interior seems to be of a higher quality.
I can confirm that. The Cayenne's interior quality looks better than anything I saw on a Porsche up til now but the Touareg easily tops it.
I'm really not sure if the Cayenne S is the better buy.
So if I'd live in Germany, I'd probably go for the VW Touareg Diesel if I want to save money or I'd buy the Cayenne Turbo. The Cayenne S doesn't make much sense then.
Another thing: the ML 55 AMG accelerates from 0-100 kph almost one second faster than the Cayenne S (tested by german AUTO ZEITUNG with 7.7 seconds - ML 55 with 6.8 and 6.9 seconds). The Cayenne Turbo is definetely the Cayenne to go with and ML 55 or BMW X5 4.6is owners shouldn't really think about an "upgrade" to the Cayenne S. It is not.
A little note regarding fuel consumption (which is VERY important to european drivers):
the VW Touareg V10 Diesel which is also slightly fast than the Cayenne S from 0-100 kph has a fuel consumption (Diesel!) of 12.7 litres / 100 km. The Cayenne S has a fuel consumption (98 octane fuel) of 18.5 litres / 100 km. Ouch again.
So the VW Touareg is definetely the better buy for european buyers in my opinion. Quality should be the same.
On-street performance (handling!) is slightly better on the Cayenne S as the test in AUTO ZEITUNG showed. Top speed is higher too on the Cayenne S (242 kph vs. 225 kph for the Touareg) but is it really that important on a SUV? I don't know.
What AUTO ZEITUNG criticizes on the Cayenne S: build quality (interior). They state that the Touareg's interior seems to be of a higher quality.
I can confirm that. The Cayenne's interior quality looks better than anything I saw on a Porsche up til now but the Touareg easily tops it.
I'm really not sure if the Cayenne S is the better buy.
Re: interesting
out of my curiousity, how did the X5 4.6is do compare to the Touareg Diesel and the Cayenne S? My 4.6is is pretty weak at speed above 200km/h.. maybe the drag co-efficient is pretty high on the X5.
BTW, your ML look much better than the gray Cayenne turbo especially park side by side.
BTW, your ML look much better than the gray Cayenne turbo especially park side by side.
Re: interesting
In reply to:
how did the X5 4.6is do compare to the Touareg Diesel and the Cayenne S?
Not very good.
The tested X5 4.6is did 0-100 kph in 7.8 seconds and 0-120 kph in 10.6 seconds. So it was slower than the VW Touareg Diesel. Possible reason: I heard that the Alpina engineered BMW engine in the X5 4.6is has a pretty wide margin of power variations. Low power was actually a reason why the X5 4.6is has been delayed before it's introduction, at least this is what rumors indicated a while ago.
My dealer had a X5 4.6is testcar and it didn't keep up with my ML55. But I also met a X5 4.6is in Munich which I couldn't leave behind (maybe a factory car?).
Regarding the tested VW Touareg: I highly doubt the 313 HP power output figure. They did weight the VW and the result was 2615 kg(!). Ouch. The Cayenne S wasn't much better: 2468 kg. Ouch again. The X5 4.6is had "only" 2265 kg which would indicate a problem with power output regarding performance. The ML 55 weights around 2250 kg (just for the book).
Re: oh dear
almost 2 sec slower than factory indicated 0-100km/h time in BMW catalog..
Do you think there was something wrong with the test car?? My personal experience was that I am able to keep up with a E46 M3 SMG all the way to 140km/h, then the M3 start to pull away... X5 4.4i can't even come close to keep up with my 4.6is and factory indicated 0-100 km/h on a 4.4i is 7.5sec.. not to mention the car is much lighter. Thats very strange.
Do you think there was something wrong with the test car?? My personal experience was that I am able to keep up with a E46 M3 SMG all the way to 140km/h, then the M3 start to pull away... X5 4.4i can't even come close to keep up with my 4.6is and factory indicated 0-100 km/h on a 4.4i is 7.5sec.. not to mention the car is much lighter. Thats very strange.
Re: Testing enviorment
What I meant to ask was whether the Magazine mention its testing enviorment. For example, if the car with full tank of fuel or little fuel. 5 passengers or 1 passenger, temputure of the road and air. All of these will affect the testing performance. VW V10 may have a better advantage in certain enviornment over Cayenne S and X5 4.6.
As I know, Mercedes claimed 0-100km/h always tested with full tank of gas and 4 passengers. If 0-100km/h in your ML55 is 6.7sec according to MB, it is actually around <6 sec
As I know, Mercedes claimed 0-100km/h always tested with full tank of gas and 4 passengers. If 0-100km/h in your ML55 is 6.7sec according to MB, it is actually around <6 sec
Jan 31, 2003 9:30:56 PM
- PSI GERMANY
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RC
Re: oh dear
Nice try, RC and thanks for the picture (by the way - I'm from Bavaria too).
That's why I am here in Florida. Today was a beautiful blue
sky with 81 degrees (about 27 C). I'll think about you when
you digg your car out of the snow.
I am going to the beach tonight - the sun is just too bright
at the moment..............
Need the shade from the palm trees.
Picture to follow (don't have my camera here with me)!
That's why I am here in Florida. Today was a beautiful blue
sky with 81 degrees (about 27 C). I'll think about you when
you digg your car out of the snow.
I am going to the beach tonight - the sun is just too bright
at the moment..............
Need the shade from the palm trees.
Picture to follow (don't have my camera here with me)!
Jan 31, 2003 10:18:14 PM
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RC
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Re: oh dear
In reply to:
I am going to the beach tonight - the sun is just too bright at the moment..............
Would you please just shut up?
This is how I spent my evening: I had to clean the sat dish from excessive wet and heavy snow, getting wet allover the body and feet and surely having caught a cold.
If you want to "kill" me, just post that beach pic.
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