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    Jan 17, 2003 5:25:56 AM

    Ron (Houston)M
    Rennteam Moderator
    Ron (Houston)
    Loc: Houston, TX , United States
    Posts: 8812, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 10, 2002

    According to Auto Spies...

    2004 Porsche 911 refresh
    What will it be like?


    We got a chance to sit down with the Porsche guys to see if we could confirm the rumors of a significant refresh (997) to the current model coming in 2004.

    Well sorry to break you hearts, but it's not coming.

    Porsche says the next significant change will come on the next body style, but that will not appear for at least two years.

    We were also told that the next generation 911 (2005-06) interior will have a very close family resemblance to the Cayenne (Alleluia!). The current dash is a tired design in our eyes, that looks very cheap for a car, of the Porsches stature.

    The Audi TT has a nicer dash and interior, for goodness sake!

    Our guess is that many parts in the Cayenne dash/console/navigation will be also used in the next generation 911.

    Jan 17, 2003 6:52:59 AM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    I confirm all...

    My dealer yesterday evening said no change from now to year 2005(not MY)...

    Turbo Cab-C4S cab this summer(RC )
    GT3 RS after the delivery of first GT3
    And maybe other surprise..

    Ciao
    Dario
    p.s.I'm happy that there are two years of no change on the 996 !!

    Jan 17, 2003 8:36:21 AM

    Rufie
    Junior
    Rufie
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 142, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 9, 2003
    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    Incredible how long we have to wait for a new 911.
    Let's go back :
    1987-1989 : 3.2 G50
    1990-1993 : 964
    1993-1996 : 993
    1996-2006 : 996 = 10 YEARS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This is way too long. I almost cannot believe it.

    Anyway, this year we will see an anniversary version of the 996, because of the 40th birthday.
    I would like to know which festivities will be organised (think of all the events for the 30th birthday).

    To be continued....

    Rufie.

    Jan 17, 2003 8:46:12 AM

    FutchM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Futch
    Loc: EU , United Kingdom
    Posts: 4759, Gallery
    Registered on: May 14, 2002
    Reply to: Rufie

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    Well, the change of the interior can only be good,
    it is indeed very square design, not "warm" and not welcoming, I know, the 911 is a driver's car but a nice interior (Maserati, SL, etc) can't be bad.
    Anything about going back to previous 911's round front lights Ron?
    Zzoba, when you say surprise, could that be a certain 300hp Boxster?
    I agree with Rufie, 10 years is a long time, but not rare in the industry (previous SL, 456GT, etc.)
    Why change when demand is still high?
    I think we will see the new 911 in 2005, just in time for a certain AMV8 Vantage
    But better interior quality and desigh is definitly needed!
    Fanch.

    Jan 17, 2003 9:28:49 AM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: Rufie

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    Rufie....996 is out from 1997 first deliveries in Italy 1998...

    993 is out from '93 and replaced in '97
    996 from '98 to '05 ...7 years....but a "big" restyling in '02 in the mid of is life..

    Ciaoo
    Dario

    Jan 17, 2003 10:50:36 AM

    Rufie
    Junior
    Rufie
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 142, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 9, 2003
    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    I'm getting old, I begin to forget some details.

    Jan 17, 2003 11:00:13 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59606, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Rufie

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    We shouldn't forget that the 996 actually got a facelift, the 996 from 2003 doesn't have much in common with the 996 from 1998. It seems to be the same car, basically speaking but it isn't.

    I'm actually happy Porsche doesn't change to the 997 too fast. And I really think that we won't see the 997 until 2004/2005. A lot depends on the success of the Cayenne and how the Boxster and 996 will perform (sell) over the next 12-18 months. I'm sure that Posche can accelerate 997 development, now that they have resources free from the Cayenne development (despite the rumored 4th model). But if Porsche is clever, they start to understand what the customer wants: a highly refined design masterpiece (doesn't have to be a "retro-look" in my opinion) with a high quality, a superb interior (based on the Cayenne interior would be OK to me but a little bit more sporty and classy please) and substantially increased HP and performance figures. If the 997 of 2005 will have 340 HP only (as rumored), it will fail.
    Here's my engine wishlist for the 997:

    997 C2/C4 with 400 HP
    997 C2S/C4S with 420 HP
    997 RS with 430 HP
    997 Turbo with 500 HP
    997 Turbo S with 540 HP
    997 GT2 with 580 HP
    997 GT3 with 440 HP

    Weight shouldn't be raised by more than 50 kg!

    This is the only way Porsche can stay competitive.
    As soon as people think that Porsche builds nice but low HP cars, sales will drop substantially. Even "brand only" buyers care about performance and HP figures, even if it is on the paper only.

    Jan 17, 2003 11:27:45 AM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: Rufie

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    Jan 17, 2003 11:32:14 AM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    Christian...i'm totally agreed with you!

    Jan 17, 2003 11:39:27 AM

    Rufie
    Junior
    Rufie
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 142, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 9, 2003
    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    We're always talking about the 997, but probably there will be a new boxster before the 997 ? What do you think ?

    Yes, you're right that it's not good if there is a new model each 1 or 2 years. On the other hand an SC from 78 is not a 3.2 from 1989, but it was high time to offer something new. Sales had decreased dramatically.

    Jan 17, 2003 11:52:44 AM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: Rufie

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    Rufie...about the new Boxster...i wait Christian's answer...

    I know nothing.....

    Ciaoo

    Jan 17, 2003 12:33:57 PM

    FutchM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Futch
    Loc: EU , United Kingdom
    Posts: 4759, Gallery
    Registered on: May 14, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    I agree with you too Christian but I'm afraid these numbers are a bit optimistic IMO :
    Shame, I think the 997 will be more around 360hp for 3.8L or 4L flat6.
    Fanch.

    Jan 17, 2003 2:22:53 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59606, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Super DariusM

    New Boxster?

    Of course there will be a new Boxster and if rumors are right, it should be around 2004 (MY 2005). One reason why I think that the 997 will show up in 2005 (MY 2006).

    Jan 17, 2003 3:09:34 PM

    FutchM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Futch
    Loc: EU , United Kingdom
    Posts: 4759, Gallery
    Registered on: May 14, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: New Boxster?

    Could we expect to see a top end Boxster (more or less 300hp, turbo or NA) before the all new boxster?
    Fanch.

    Jan 17, 2003 3:35:22 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12588, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Dario - About the GT3 RS?

    What will this be, exactly?

    Previously, the GT3RS was a racecar only (never street legal). If this is a lightweight/sportier version of the GT3 for the road, then it sounds fantastic (I wonder if it will be US legal?). If I'm on the waiting list for a GT3, how do I find out if I should wait for the RS version?

    Thanks,
    Grant

    Jan 17, 2003 3:46:37 PM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Dario - About the GT3 RS?

    In Italy there is a rumor a big rumor like a Truck...(my friend that make the Porsche Italia Cup) that after the introduction of the new GT3 there is a limited edition of the GT3 RS...that have brakes like the "old" Racing GT3RS,door and other parts in carbon fiber and other special parts,willl be lighter...but ready for street use...

    The cost is 20000 Eur plus that the new GT3 cost and the power is the same of the GT3....

    Nothing official but a very good rumors..

    This is all that i know

    Ciao
    Dario

    Jan 17, 2003 3:51:45 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12588, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: Dario - About the GT3 RS?

    That sounds great. Any guess as to whether this will be US legal? Do you think Porsche will keep this a secret until the last minute or do you think I'll have an option to wait for the RS, since I'm on a GT3 wait list?

    Thanks

    Jan 17, 2003 3:56:53 PM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Dario - About the GT3 RS?

    I don't know...ask to your dealer.....i think if there is something true he must know....

    Ciao
    Dario

    Jan 17, 2003 4:00:40 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12588, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: Dario - About the GT3 RS?

    Well, the dealers here either don't get very good information or they don't share it, because my local dealer said there would never be a new GT3 for the US market right up until the official announcement on the Porsche website...

    Jan 17, 2003 4:07:37 PM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Dario - About the GT3 RS?

    If in the next days i know something more precise...i tell you!

    Also my dealer said no turbo cabrio,no C4S cabrio and only yesterday said yes at the turbo cab and C4S cab

    Is a crazy world...what can we do?

    Jan 17, 2003 4:13:39 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
    Rennteam Moderator
    Ron (Houston)
    Loc: Houston, TX , United States
    Posts: 8812, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    It sounds good to me and in fact it should be the way you explained. May be you can send your idea to Porsche as a proposal you never know, they may take you up on it.

    Jan 17, 2003 4:23:05 PM

    FutchM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Futch
    Loc: EU , United Kingdom
    Posts: 4759, Gallery
    Registered on: May 14, 2002
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Dario - About the GT3 RS?

    I know what you mean Grant,
    annoying isn't it?
    same for the GT3 RS then, if it's true, nothing will be confirmed before PAG does
    That would compromise GT3 sales,
    Personnally, I don't think they will be one.
    Fanch.

    Jan 17, 2003 7:22:17 PM

    LG1
    Pilot
    LG1
    Loc: Italy
    Posts: 433, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 3, 2002
    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: Dario - About the GT3 RS?

    996 GT3RS road version?
    Maybe Porsche wants to come out with a competitor for the Challenge Stradale, but then they probably wouldn't keep the 381 hp power figure.

    Since Porsche has always maintained a steady rise with its hp improvements throughout new models, I guess that the 997 will have something like 340 hp, and the Turbo 440-450 hp.This could be acceptable if they spent a lot of time and money on weight issues, and finally developed an aluminum chassis that could make a standard 997 C2 tip the scales at 1210-1230 kgs with all modern luxuries.
    That way 340 hp would give tremendous straight line performance, without factoring in the amazing handling and braking improvements...
    The 997 Turbo would weigh around 1360-1380 kgs that with 440-450 hp and that amazing torque would give it performance to match or even beat an F50!

    I guess I'm just dreaming...

    Jan 18, 2003 4:30:39 AM

    Ron (Houston)M
    Rennteam Moderator
    Ron (Houston)
    Loc: Houston, TX , United States
    Posts: 8812, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
    Reply to: Grant

    Porsche Dealer

    I believe Porsche should invest on educating their dealers and sales guys. There are some that are very informative and knowledgable and there are some makes you wonder why thay don't work at a bicycle shop.

    Jan 18, 2003 9:54:17 AM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: Porsche Dealer

    Porsche should choose his sales guys,here on Rennteam!!!

    I think that all works better...

    Ciao
    Dario

    Jan 24, 2003 10:35:28 PM

    Kr!zZ
    Newbie
    Kr!zZ
    Loc: Netherlands
    Posts: 12, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 24, 2003
    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    Hi ...
    If you look closely on the pic of the 997 the registation nr. says: " s go 2007"
    (the one I send to the porsche996 board)
    The magazine of auto bild says the 997 will be released in 2007.

    Greetz.

    Jan 24, 2003 10:38:53 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59606, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Kr!zZ

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    Do you really think Porsche drives around in a 997 prototype, stating the release date on the license plate? C'mon.

    Jan 24, 2003 10:46:01 PM

    Kr!zZ
    Newbie
    Kr!zZ
    Loc: Netherlands
    Posts: 12, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 24, 2003
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: According to Auto Spies...

    It was in the text ...(but my german is not that good )
    and why would it be called the 997 then ??

    Greetz

    Feb 24, 2003 9:36:39 PM

    CRA Offline
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    CR
    Loc: Karlsruhe , Germany
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    C4S with hardtop

    Quote:
    Also my dealer said no turbo cabrio,no C4S cabrio and only yesterday said yes at the turbo cab and C4S cab



    Dario, today I saw a C4S with a hardtop in the area around Weissach

    Feb 24, 2003 9:56:01 PM

    FutchM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Futch
    Loc: EU , United Kingdom
    Posts: 4759, Gallery
    Registered on: May 14, 2002
    Reply to: CRA

    Re: C4S with hardtop

    Humm , that's nice actually,
    This car should look great with the top down!!!
    Fanch.
     
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