Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D) - Page1

Dec 13, 2002 3:41:27 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002

Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

There is a pretty negative article on the Cayenne in today's NY Times.

Actually the article isn't on the car itself but on its image.

They say a lot of Porsche fanatics think the company is selling its soul to the devil by building a SUV... From now on, "soccer mom on her cell-phone will load groceries in the trunk" the ultimate outrage for a Porsche fan.

They also say, some enthusiast don't want Cayenne owners to join PCA (Porsche Club of America)....

I would just like to add, Porsche tractors are always welcome at Porsche meetings whilst they are clearly not sporty.... BUT they belong to the Porsche family...

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Dec 13, 2002 4:10:17 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: EricAlain

Re: Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

The Cayenne is purely a marketing product.
It is well made because it is Porsche.
But they are only doing it for the money.
I doubt Cayenne engineers had as much fun with this project than the racing dpt in charge of the Carrera GT

The GT will make money too but it's also about prestige, race technology applied to the road, and let's be honest, outrun the Enzo

, this car will have a soul unlike the Cayenne.
Like the NY times wrote, you will not see mums dropping their kids at the football game with the groceries and the dogs in the boot with a 911.
But the Cayenne will make money so, no big deal, as long as the profits are reinvested into a REAL sport car, it's fine by me, like a nice front engined GT that will target the 575MM

for example.
PAG has definitly lost some of its sport prestige credibility by doing a 4*4, but if it can help maintain high profit and independance, so be it. And I trust them, they know what they're doing (I hope)
IMO, the Cayenne is just a cash machine, in 20 years time, I hope that people will not think of a fat SUV when they'll think about Porsche but still 911, Le Mans, etc.

Fanch.

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Dec 13, 2002 4:58:22 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

I can't agree more. Porsche isn't a "non profit" organization, they produce fine sports cars to make money.

I'm sure Porsche will reinvest the Cayenne's money into sports cars because it's their bread and butter.

I think Porsche was smart enough to realize they had an over dependence on the 911 even if the Boxster is a real success.

Every time they tried something different from the 911 it didn't really work (except the Boxster).

So they had to do something radically different. I'm convinced 20 years down the road the 911 will still be Porsche's flagship.

Sure the Cayenne is a risky gamble but I'm sure it will pay-off. The break-even point on the Cayenne is extremely low as at least 80% of the value of the car is outsourced. The riskiest part of the gamble is the overall effect on the image.

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Dec 13, 2002 6:19:42 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59602, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

In reply to:
I doubt Cayenne engineers had as much fun with this project than the racing dpt in charge of the Carrera GT

After driving the Cayenne Turbo, I wouldn't bet on that.

Francois, trust me: the Cayenne Turbo will fascinate you, especially if you ever drove a SUV before.
However: this is the wrong car for people who never drove a SUV before and it might be the wrong car for people who think they're buying a "real" (means: sports car) Porsche.

Personally I think that the Cayenne will hurt Porsche sports car sales substantially but maybe I'm wrong. Why I think that? Because a lot of Porsche owners own a Porsche just for image ("it is a Porsche, nothing else counts"). Now imagine these people how happy they must be that they can finally sell their Porsche sports car (or even not even buy it in the first place

) and get rid of their family car (SUV, limousine, stationwagon, whatever), getting one single car for the whole family...and it even has the Porsche brand name. Wow.

But again...Cayenne Turbo buyers won't regret their decision and Cayenne S buyers don't know what they're missing.

But then...the Cayenne S is a bargain compared to the Cayenne Turbo.

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Dec 13, 2002 6:23:47 PM

Oggie (on L.I.): Newbie; Loc: Long Island, New York; Posts: 2, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 6, 2002; Reply to: EricAlain

I don't really think the article was negative

I think it was pointing out, the outrage that some traditional Porsche owners have to the idea that Porsche is building such a vehicle. Having witnessed the negative reaction of some Porsche owners on various Porsche boards and the PCA, I think the story is accurate.

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Dec 13, 2002 7:19:45 PM

Sydney: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 73, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

Judging from my wife and kids reaction to our new Acura MDX, I don't think a lot of soccer moms will be buying a Cayenne (or letting their husbands buy one for the family). My wife (who loves Porsches by the way), likes the comfort, apparent safety, amenities and space of the Acura, and I would bet those are the driving points of many moms and family-oriented purchasers. She does not see the need for more horsepower and handling. When I told her I missed the performance of a Porsche, her reply was "you don't need performance on this car--you have got it on your turbo".

My guess also is that men will drive Cayenne purchases, not soccer moms or family-oriented purchasers. And therein lies at least one dilemma for Porsche--if guys can get their sports car fix in more of a sports car, will they spring for an additional SUV/sports car package? Or if they do buy the Cayenne for the family, will they really feel okay letting the car get trashed in grocery store parking lots, or filled with typical family detritus?

It is going to be interesting. I have long been addicted to the feel of a Porsche--it truly is a driver's car with a fabulous almost slot car connection to the road. I can't wait to test drive a Cayenne to see if it instinctively satisfies.

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Dec 13, 2002 7:23:13 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: EricAlain

Re: Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

Well said Eric,

I agree with you.
Fanch

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Dec 14, 2002 1:16:37 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: EricAlain

I posted this on nother site. It may interest you

FUNCARSONLINE-996 discussion board <
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nberry
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Reged: 06/28/02
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego, USA
Porsche conducted a scientific study to determine why people buy Porsches
12/13/02 06:40 PM Edit Reply

This was done in conjuction with their decision to build a SUV.

Quoting Wolfgang Durheimer a Porsche board member "What conclusions did they reach? No one actually needs one of our sports cars. Compared to many vehicles, they have little practical value. The Cayenne on the other hand satisfies every possible need a person can have. ....It has immense pratical value and its a true Porsche because it has pure emotion...emotion will make people want Cayenne."

This is quoted from an article in Autoweek which reviewed the performance of the SUV. Interestingly almost half the article was devoted to defending the decision to build one. All in all it was a tepid endorsement (need the advertising dollars)

Those of us who own Porsche the sport car probably should hang on to it. It may well be a museum piece.

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Dec 14, 2002 4:46:49 AM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Well that was certainly strange.

And, for the most part, I like strange

.

I spent some time (not a lot) looking at the funcarsonline website. Something about it looks a little familiar

. I seem to recall a diatribe earlier about funcarsonline having a lot of flames and immaturity and our present members having defected to form a more perfect union. Do I have this right?

Anyway, rennteam.com has been great. The wealth of information about the Cayenne in this forum has been too overwhelming recently to respond to individually so let me say to Eric, CR, RC and everyone else: Great Job! There have been a lot of great posts with wonderful information and photos.

I am happy to hear RC's recommendation on the S for off-road. That capability is very important to me even if it is only 5% of the time (or less).

Eric: congratulations on the order! What are you thinking on the wheels? How can you pass up those 19" wheels? Are you putting a premium on the 18" tires off-road ability or is it the money? I'm thinking I will appreciate the 19" on road abilities more often than I will the 18" off-road prowess. Tell me what your thinking is.

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Dec 16, 2002 2:40:18 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Well that was certainly strange.

I also find this board extremely useful to get info on our favorite brand.

As far as the wheels are concerned, I'm passing on the 19" wheels just because I don't think it makes huge sense on the S.

If I was to buy a Turbo I would definitely go for these wheels.

The overall budget is also part of the equation because if you look at it this way, the sticker price is US$ 56k and after adding some goodies and taxes (6% in Florida), the total bill is US$ 68k or +21.5% compared with the original price.

When I went to my dealer (Champion Motors) to finalize my order, I saw all the details of every Cayenne S they will receive in March. I would say that very few of them were equipped with the 19" wheels. The same goes for the air suspension. On the other hand a lot of them were coming with the full leather interior (US$ 3,200) and the "full" comfort seat package (US$ 390+US$ 890). For example none of them was equipped with Sport seats and none was Metallic red nor Jarama....

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Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

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Re: Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

Re: Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

I don't really think the article was negative

Re: Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

Re: Negative article in today's NY Times (Section D)

I posted this on nother site. It may interest you

Well that was certainly strange.

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