Crown

Rossi:

Okay guys, let me get this straight.

Here comes an Italian car (well, sort of), participates in one of the best known and highly respected German (!) car magazine tests and gets the same amount of points as the best two Porsche ever produced. In fact this Italian car sits right at the top of the tableau of this magazine with them and some of you are not impressed, at least a bit?

Sorry to say, but sometimes Porsche fan boys don't seem to be that much different to their relatives from Maranello.

Meh... it is all merit of the tires and doesn't have an LCD rearview mirror...

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

Rossi:

Okay guys, let me get this straight.

Here comes an Italian car (well, sort of), participates in one of the best known and highly respected German (!) car magazine tests and gets the same amount of points as the best two Porsche ever produced. In fact this Italian car sits right at the top of the tableau of this magazine with them and some of you are not impressed, at least a bit?

Sorry to say, but sometimes Porsche fan boys don't seem to be that much different to their relatives from Maranello.

Meh... it is all merit of the tires and doesn't have an LCD rearview mirror...

One needs to consider that Porsche Engineering was instrumental in assisting Lamborghini develop the new ALA or Lamborghini active aerodynamic system.  Would not be surprised to see a variant of this system used on the 992 GT3 or GT3 RS.  

Rossi:

Okay guys, let me get this straight.

Here comes an Italian car (well, sort of), participates in one of the best known and highly respected German (!) car magazine tests and gets the same amount of points as the best two Porsche ever produced. In fact this Italian car sits right at the top of the tableau of this magazine with them and some of you are not impressed, at least a bit?

Sorry to say, but sometimes Porsche fan boys don't seem to be that much different to their relatives from Maranello.

We were only taking about lap times .... A great car indeed if you are shorter then 180 cm 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

RC:

SciFrog:

The winner in all this is McLaren unless you have access to GT3 and 488 which can drive for mostly free.

GT3 maybe...a little bit...but 488? Not really. No probs to find a 488 with low mileage under MSRP in Germany.

When I turned my .2GT3 ( paid MSRP for it) in to pick up my .2GT3RS, the dealer gave me MSRP. Their used car expert said if I want to sell it privately I probably could get $15,000 over MSRP. My .2GT3 was 10 months old. Out with the old and in with the new.

Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.

nberry:

RC:

SciFrog:

The winner in all this is McLaren unless you have access to GT3 and 488 which can drive for mostly free.

GT3 maybe...a little bit...but 488? Not really. No probs to find a 488 with low mileage under MSRP in Germany.

When I turned my .2GT3 ( paid MSRP for it) in to pick up my .2GT3RS, the dealer gave me MSRP. Their used car expert said if I want to sell it privately I probably could get $15,000 over MSRP. My .2GT3 was 10 months old. Out with the old and in with the new.

Yes, but how many miles did it have? that only works if you barely use it.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Around 3000. It's not my DD car. I use it for those moments when I want to add a little spice into my life. However, the more I use it the less spice I get out of it. I know there are those that when they take delivery of a car put several hundred miles within a few days of delivery. That's not me. Way too many other interest. 

Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.

Jesus, that is like driving rentals  Well, in my case, I have many other interests as well but 3000 for me is not even getting to know the car and appreciate it fully, it's like a mountain climber that only climbs 1/3 of the way up before he goes back down onto another mountain, if I like the car, I want to be driving it and experience driving it in many situations, and well worth the milage and it's impact on resale. In fact, I could not bare driving a "people mover" as a daily if I can help it, life is too short. To each his own I guess. But like I said, my point was that driving a GT3 is only free if you barely use it.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Or you just get more cars. I am the only year round driver and until recently there were 6 cars in my garage. My 10 year old Mini had 12,000 miles, the 11 year old Aston has 13,000 miles, the 9 year old California 14,000 miles... Of course I can only drive these cars 7-8 moths of the year.

3000 miles is a fun weekend for me.  I put 3000 miles per year on my Hyundai Azera and 20k on my Turbo. Lol.  And I live 2 miles from work. 

I am in the camp with Leawood and Carlos . Actually the longer I keep a car ( to some point ) , the more I enjoy it , as it becomes ' one ' with me . The longer , the better you drive it  know how it works reach the limits . And this is probably at around 50k km .

The novelty of a car is only a very small enjoyment compared to the satisfaction of knowing the car 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

The novelty of a car is only a very small enjoyment compared to the satisfaction of knowing the car 

Perfectly expressed in one phrase, could not of said it better.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Rossi:

Okay guys, let me get this straight.

Here comes an Italian car (well, sort of), participates in one of the best known and highly respected German (!) car magazine tests and gets the same amount of points as the best two Porsche ever produced. In fact this Italian car sits right at the top of the tableau of this magazine with them and some of you are not impressed, at least a bit?

Sorry to say, but sometimes Porsche fan boys don't seem to be that much different to their relatives from Maranello.

I am more worried about the mystical "power loss" the test-car had (again, remember that R8 tested?), it always seems to happen in Sport Auto and I have no clue why??? Either Lamborghini/Audi doesn't care or...  Sometimes I get the feeling that VW Group keeps Lamborghini under a lid, while they heavily "promote" Porsche. The reason behind it? I don't have a clue, maybe the Lamborghini and Audi guys are just too lazy or disinterested to promote their cars properly. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Gnil:

I am in the camp with Leawood and Carlos . Actually the longer I keep a car ( to some point ) , the more I enjoy it , as it becomes ' one ' with me . The longer , the better you drive it  know how it works reach the limits . And this is probably at around 50k km .

The novelty of a car is only a very small enjoyment compared to the satisfaction of knowing the car 

Depends on the car. There are cars I just wait for the lease to run out or I just return them because they don't "fit" my driving style. Examples: E55 AMG (supercharged 2WD version), Panamera Turbo S (970), 991.1 Turbo S, Mini Cooper JCW (2012 model). Others, I would love to keep forever, like my current R8 V10 Plus but surprisingly also the E63 S AMG (if there wasn't a minor issue driving me nuts).

If the car fits my driving style, I agree, the greatest enjoyment is to know the car and be able to control it properly. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

 

I am more worried about the mystical "power loss" the test-car had (again, remember that R8 tested?), it always seems to happen in Sport Auto and I have no clue why??? Either Lamborghini/Audi doesn't care or...  Sometimes I get the feeling that VW Group keeps Lamborghini under a lid, while they heavily "promote" Porsche. The reason behind it? I don't have a clue, maybe the Lamborghini and Audi guys are just too lazy or disinterested to promote their cars properly. 

Probably an engine design or production related problem. If it happens more than once it seems very likely it is a common problem with customer cars as well 

MKSGR:

RC:

 

I am more worried about the mystical "power loss" the test-car had (again, remember that R8 tested?), it always seems to happen in Sport Auto and I have no clue why??? Either Lamborghini/Audi doesn't care or...  Sometimes I get the feeling that VW Group keeps Lamborghini under a lid, while they heavily "promote" Porsche. The reason behind it? I don't have a clue, maybe the Lamborghini and Audi guys are just too lazy or disinterested to promote their cars properly. 

Probably an engine design or production related problem. If it happens more than once it seems very likely it is a common problem with customer cars as well 

It is no secret that 99% of the V10 engines barely reach the advertised power (610 version usually has around 590-600 hp) but a "loss" of 32 hp? Hmm...  No, there are no issues, the V10 engines are bulletproof. Very reliable. One reason Audi/Lamborghini race them without a single hardware change, only the injection system is different.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Gnil:

We were only taking about lap times .... A great car indeed if you are shorter then 180 cm 

You'll get very bad lap times if you are 1.87 and wearing a helmet in the Performante.

Besides that the Performante is one of few Lambos I really like :-)  (Not driven it, just looking)

Kobalt:

Gnil:

We were only taking about lap times .... A great car indeed if you are shorter then 180 cm 

 

You'll get very bad lap times if you are 1.87 and wearing a helmet in the Performante.

Besides that the Performante is one of few Lambos I really like :-)  (Not driven it, just looking)

The Huracan facelift gets a modified seat setup, so it will be suitable for big guys/girls and a helmet as well.  Also they plan to offer, similar to Porsche, some sort of a "Clubsport" package and/or specific track setups/options.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

 

I am more worried about the mystical "power loss" the test-car had (again, remember that R8 tested?), it always seems to happen in Sport Auto and I have no clue why??? Either Lamborghini/Audi doesn't care or...  Sometimes I get the feeling that VW Group keeps Lamborghini under a lid, while they heavily "promote" Porsche. The reason behind it? I don't have a clue, maybe the Lamborghini and Audi guys are just too lazy or disinterested to promote their cars properly. 

Probably an engine design or production related problem. If it happens more than once it seems very likely it is a common problem with customer cars as well 

It is no secret that 99% of the V10 engines barely reach the advertised power (610 version usually has around 590-600 hp) but a "loss" of 32 hp? Hmm...  No, there are no issues, the V10 engines are bulletproof. Very reliable. One reason Audi/Lamborghini race them without a single hardware change, only the injection system is different.

I agree, this kind of power loss is not acceptable, especially if we are talking about a car like the Performante, which should be the top Huracán and where you would expect that Lamborghini only uses their best V10 engines.

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

The Huracan Performance was introduced March 2017 - reason for this test are purely poor sales numbers....

BjoernB:

The Huracan Performance was introduced March 2017 - reason for this test are purely poor sales numbers....

So what? I don‘t care about the sales numbers, in fact I think the true sportscar enthusiast benefits much more from cars like the Performante than from cars that are artificially hyped like the Porsche GT models or the more or less limited special versions from Ferrari. 

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

BjoernB:

The Huracan Performance was introduced March 2017 - reason for this test are purely poor sales numbers....

So what? I don‘t care about the sales numbers, in fact I think the true sportscar enthusiast benefits much more from cars like the Performante than from cars that are artificially hyped like the Porsche GT models or the more or less limited special versions from Ferrari. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

artificially hyped ?   good one....

BjoernB:

artificially hyped ?   good one....

Why? Nice cars but 10 years ago, barely in demand.  The "last n/a" Porsche rumor has worked well for Porsche, also the racing car for the road claim. In fact, my R8 (and any Huracan) is more racing car than any GT3 road model on the market, including the RS version but the hype is a hype. Just compare the common parts of a R8/Huracan with the race variants and the same with the GT3/RS road cars with their racing counterparts. Surprise, surprise...  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

BjoernB:

artificially hyped ?   good one....

That is no joke at all. I think it‘s a shame that not everybody who can afford it, can buy a GT3 RS, GT2 RS, 911R, Speciale, Speciale Aperta, Pista, Pista Spider and sort of. I think such cars should only be limited by production time and not by numbers and there should be no preference for hypercar owners (who often enough only collect and don‘t drive). First come, first served. 

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

BjoernB:

artificially hyped ?   good one....

That is no joke at all. I think it‘s a shame that not everybody who can afford it, can buy a GT3 RS, GT2 RS, 911R, Speciale, Speciale Aperta, Pista, Pista Spider and sort of. I think such cars should only be limited by production time and not by numbers and there should be no preference for hypercar owners (who often enough only collect and don‘t drive). First come, first served. 

This is also very true. I get the limited production run models and their appeal for both, the manufacturer and some customers, but they piss off a lot of longtime customers and basically even "force" them to change the brand. What a shame. I won't even start with the price development lately but at least they could make as many as they can sell. Thank god the GT3 and GT3 RS aren't artificially limited but they could certainly produce a couple of more.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Imho limit the production of certain models makes perfect sense in order to keep the halo of exclusivity around the brand.

The issue is the (unfair) allocation system. Despite the hard core buyers (let's say 100-200-300? persons worldwide -people like Whoopsy who race their cars, have an extensive background buying expensive Porsches and are excellent ambassadors of the brand) there is a wide pool of customers that share almost the same qualifications; rank priorities here instead of a random draw is what makes people get pissed off.

Carlos from Spain:

Gnil:

The novelty of a car is only a very small enjoyment compared to the satisfaction of knowing the car 

Perfectly expressed in one phrase, could not of said it better.

+1 

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

alexalex88:

Imho limit the production of certain models makes perfect sense in order to keep the halo of exclusivity around the brand.

The issue is the (unfair) allocation system. Despite the hard core buyers (let's say 100-200-300? persons worldwide -people like Whoopsy who race their cars, have an extensive background buying expensive Porsches and are excellent ambassadors of the brand) there is a wide pool of customers that share almost the same qualifications; rank priorities here instead of a random draw is what makes people get pissed off.

How do you "fairly" allocate cars? Difficult. I suggested once a system based on how many Porsche a customer bought in a period of ten years but then, is this fair? Some younger drivers may want one but they haven't really bought that many Porsche cars in the past. Exclusivity? Why? If Porsche can sell every single GT3 RS they can produce, what is wrong with that? I get the 911 R (even if I think that the current GT3 Touring is the better car ) but limited production models only create bad blood.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

How do you "fairly" allocate cars? Difficult. I suggested once a system based on how many Porsche a customer bought in a period of ten years but then, is this fair? Some younger drivers may want one but they haven't really bought that many Porsche cars in the past. Exclusivity? Why? If Porsche can sell every single GT3 RS they can produce, what is wrong with that? I get the 911 R (even if I think that the current GT3 Touring is the better car ) but limited production models only create bad blood.

You know that R was the proto of GT3.2... they limited it because they thought the demand would be minimal for such a car hence they put a random number and advertised it. the craziness started with greedy idiots whcih thought NA/Manual was gone after the R which was wrong. you now the story after that...

they are making every GT3 they can sell and same goes for the RS... on the way for 5000 units again, it is big amount already but you still need to make sure that no car collect dusts in showroom, so demand minus 1 in each place.

--

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

RC:

How do you "fairly" allocate cars? Difficult. I suggested once a system based on how many Porsche a customer bought in a period of ten years but then, is this fair? Some younger drivers may want one but they haven't really bought that many Porsche cars in the past. Exclusivity? Why? If Porsche can sell every single GT3 RS they can produce, what is wrong with that? I get the 911 R (even if I think that the current GT3 Touring is the better car ) but limited production models only create bad blood.

You know that R was the proto of GT3.2... they limited it because they thought the demand would be minimal for such a car hence they put a random number and advertised it. the craziness started with greedy idiots whcih thought NA/Manual was gone after the R which was wrong. you now the story after that...

they are making every GT3 they can sell and same goes for the RS... on the way for 5000 units again, it is big amount already but you still need to make sure that no car collect dusts in showroom, so demand minus 1 in each place.

--

 

GT Lover, Porsche fan

 

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

Not quite there yet...there are still people who weren't able to get one and apparently their dealers tell them now there won't be any more cars. Just imagine what will happen if these customers see some new GT3 RS popping up in spring 2019...  

The GT3 and GT3 RS are amazing cars and I wish everyone who wants one gets one for MSRP or less but so far, it seems that some people won't get one, which is sad.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)