Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Source of sales - Page2

Oct 3, 2008 9:36:35 AM

Arshad: Pilot; Loc: Dubai, UAE , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 315, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 1, 2007

PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Just read an article in Autocar Middle East Magazine (Oct 08 issue) about the comparison test between the CS2II, R8 & GT-R. The article seems to be lifted from the UK magazine, as it is written by Steve Sutcliffe, and features RHD cars in Wales (dead giveaway!).

Anyway, whilst slamming the new PDK buttons, Steve mentions in passing (and I quote), "...and that's categorically not good enough in a car such as this, which is why Porsche is already re-designing the buttons, by all accounts, having coming in for so much criticism from journos and customers alike."

Re-designing the buttons? Can any of you guys reconfirm this? When will the re-designed interface be available? Will we be able to retro-fit that on our cars? I put in my deposit for a new CSII in July. As it is we have to wait for the PSE, now will this warrant a further wait to get our cars right?! Not a very happy bunny after reading this piece of news. As it is I felt shortchanged when Porsche increased the engine size of the Boxster S to 3.4 just 3 months after I got delivery of my car, and I was given no heads-up on that.

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Oct 3, 2008 1:39:58 PM

cdixon: Senior; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 680, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 27, 2007; Reply to: Arshad

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

I doubt Porsche will change them for a while (R&D Costs)... If they did however change them in a short time frame then it might be for a model like the GT3 etc...

Also look at the sports chrono extra... Most people my self included hate the stopwatch on the dashboard, and only like me order it for the sports button, but have Porsche removed it !!!!!!

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Oct 3, 2008 1:40:07 PM

Liquid: Junior; Loc: Dubai , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 60, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 26, 2008; Reply to: Arshad

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

you forgot to mention that the 911S was soundly beaten into third place by the R8 and the GTR, the latter being miles ahead (pardon the pun) in all departments. Dont agree with the price quoted for the GTR though, I was told by Nissan that it will cost AED430k, which clearly is not $85k. Autocar need to verify their sources.
Overall the writer alluded to the fact the the game has moved on considerably from 2004, and that Porsche has failed to keep up.

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Oct 3, 2008 1:47:44 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: cdixon

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Quote:
cdixon said:
Also look at the sports chrono extra... Most people my self included hate the stopwatch on the dashboard, and only like me order it for the sports button, but have Porsche removed it !!!!!!

You can upload aftermarket software that lets you have Sport Mode without Sports Chrono. I think this is the place:
http://www.softronic.us/index.php

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Oct 3, 2008 3:28:09 PM

phelipcopter: Newbie; Loc: Singapore; Posts: 17, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 28, 2008; Reply to: Grant

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Can you expand 'The latter(GTR) is miles ahead in all department'?

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Oct 3, 2008 3:39:55 PM

Liquid: Junior; Loc: Dubai , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 60, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 26, 2008; Reply to: phelipcopter

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

hey, dont shoot the messenger dude, just quoting the magazine. The writer (from memory) referred to ride quality, handling, sheer performance, cabin design etc. He is a journalist though, so his wallet does not have to do the talking. I am not sure of the overall GTR ownership experience and hence am not tempted as yet.

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Oct 3, 2008 3:40:15 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: phelipcopter

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Quote:
phelipcopter said:
Can you expand 'The latter(GTR) is miles ahead in all department'?

Very correct comment. According to owners report on the web including rennteam the GT-R in spite of its disputed track times, can suffer also from overheating in hot ambient conditions, gearbox breakages, and easily consumed tyres if used on track due its considerable weight. These are areas where the Nissan clearly excels and it is miles ahead!

Some journalists especially of british magazines(e.g. Autocar, CAR) seem to be very impressionable these days and do not search below the surface!

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Oct 4, 2008 7:18:15 AM

CarreraAddicted: Newbie; Loc: France , France; Posts: 26, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2008; Reply to: Arshad

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

The F1-sport steering wheel by speedART with shift paddles for the Porsche double clutch transmission of the new Porsche 997 Carrera/S is now available.

http://www.speedart.de/2008/index.php?id=23&L=2

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Oct 4, 2008 9:52:37 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: CarreraAddicted

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Quote:
CarreraAddicted said:
The F1-sport steering wheel by speedART with shift paddles for the Porsche double clutch transmission of the new Porsche 997 Carrera/S is now available.

http://www.speedart.de/2008/index.php?id=23&L=2

The aesthetics of this st. wheel are terrible for my taste at least. And it doesn't go with the rest of the interior design.

However, if someone is desperate to change it then it could be a solution. On the other hand if you don't like the interface (and I personally cannot see why)get a different car. Why experiment with aftermarket on a brand new car?

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Oct 4, 2008 10:47:25 AM

Arshad: Pilot; Loc: Dubai, UAE , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 315, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 1, 2007; Reply to: Arshad

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

The October issue of 911 & Porsche World magazine (also a UK publication) has an article about PDK vs manual, written by their editor Steve Bennett, and he also mentions, (again I quote), "Now these [buttons] have come in for some serious flak, and the rumour is that there may well be a redesign on the way"

Would this give more weight to the rumour?!

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Oct 4, 2008 11:30:15 AM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5886, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: Arshad

Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Apparently Exce11ence magazine just received this info from a contributor:

"Incidentally, Porsche have just announced a Tequipment paddle shift steering wheel for the facelift 997. An obvious admission that they got it wrong! In the meantime, all the German tuners are doing the same..."

Link: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=458338

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Oct 4, 2008 12:40:56 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Can we see this announcement somewhere? It's not on their website.

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Oct 4, 2008 2:29:26 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

May I ask why, after apparently widespread vociferous complaints, the fugly SC wart is still a _required_ POS on the dash?

Though it's hard to contradict what Exce11ence says, the undying "wart requirement" makes me think this PDK-change speculation is bogus.

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Oct 4, 2008 3:12:52 PM

clewsey: Newbie; Loc: UK, Berkshire; Posts: 45, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2008; Reply to: MMD

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

I am losing respect for Autocar as a weekly magazine. Ok, I own a 997.2S PDK but they seem to go for headlines these days, my subscription won't get renewed...

I'm not saying the GTR or R8 are not good cars, they are great cars in many ways but to say Porsche have fallen behind is just rubbish.

I've had 911's before and they still feel fresh after many years, can you say that about a Nissan? Ok, it'll have a great following but time will tell I guess.

The Porsche is a fantastic car, fast, agile, comfortable and well bolted together. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, what do the journo's know!

The PDK buttons are fine once you've got used to them, Porsche will not replace them for paddles anytime soon (well I hope not).

Anyway, I'm off hunting for an R8 driver.

Cheers!

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Oct 4, 2008 3:44:19 PM

Liquid: Junior; Loc: Dubai , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 60, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 26, 2008; Reply to: clewsey

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

It was a group test, there had to be a loser, and the 911 happened to be on the receiving end, they opined. Sure the boys over in the GTR and R8 forums are currently giving high 5's all round,good for them. This here being a porsche forum, don't think that one article from a car magazine is going to sway someones decision. Guess there is more to car ownership than 0-100 times and subjective handling tests.

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Oct 4, 2008 4:16:23 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Liquid

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Quote:
Liquid said:
It was a group test, there had to be a loser, and the 911 happened to be on the receiving end, they opined. Sure the boys over in the GTR and R8 forums are currently giving high 5's all round,good for them. This here being a porsche forum, don't think that one article from a car magazine is going to sway someones decision. Guess there is more to car ownership than 0-100 times and subjective handling tests.

Magazines are businesses that have to make a living. I am not implying that they will declare a rubbish car as the winner but they are always after catchy headlines and promoting the new toy.
Last year it was the R8, this year it is the GT-R, next year it could be the new GT3 again etc.

It is also sensational if they write that the Nissan beats a Turbo and good for the front cover story. If they decided the other way round it would have been boring and expected.

The CAR mag declared the Nissan as the winner over the R8, for example, with insufficient explanation IMO, other than the fact that it was the R8 last year so this year let's give the title to the "car of the day". Also the 997.2 didn't make the "final" again with subjective criteria and lots of blah blah!

I personally don't rely much on the english language auto-press for car evaluation, but mostly to read news and motorsport results.

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Oct 4, 2008 7:48:33 PM

GR: Senior; Loc: S Bucks, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 779, Gallery; Registered on: May 17, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

What makes me smile is that after all the headlines and shock results, the next group test always uses the 911 (invariably the wrong model) as the benchmark. Same thing for the Boxster and Cayman too.

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Oct 4, 2008 8:26:40 PM

C2Nerves: Junior; Loc: Beirut, Lebanon , Lebanon; Posts: 131, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2006; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Quote:
Boxster Coupe GTS said:
Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Apparently Exce11ence magazine just received this info from a contributor:

"Incidentally, Porsche have just announced a Tequipment paddle shift steering wheel for the facelift 997. An obvious admission that they got it wrong! In the meantime, all the German tuners are doing the same..."

Link: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=458338

I wish nobody will relay such information unless it is from porsche direct. Many members do value whats written on this forum and will believe the content with no doubt. Since porsche has not announced this, then it should be regarded as one of the many rumors floating around.

I personally like the PDK buttons. They are 'porsche' character at the end of the day. It is all about 'steering grip' vs changing gears.
with PDK buttons, the fact that you use your thumbs for upshift / fingers for downshift gives you a better steering grip. This alone offers a superior sense of "in-control" driving compared to paddles.
With the paddle shift, you will not have your fingers on the paddles the whole time. You will find yourself alternating between gripping and releasing the steering in order to reach the paddles when needed. This alternation will effect your spontaneity and controlled driving.
Some may argue that with paddles, you have better control when cornering since you may never lose the positioning of the paddles even when you are not gripping the steering. The fact is that when you are cornering over 30mph, you cannot or should not release your steering grip even on a track. It is not like you will be rolling the steering over twice like you would do at 10mph.

You have to try both for a while (and not for just for a few days) to realise the advantages. some of you may disagree, but i guess that's what makes these threads interesting.

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Oct 5, 2008 12:00:30 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: C2Nerves

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Quote:
C2Nerves said:...I personally like the PDK buttons. They are 'porsche' character at the end of the day. It is all about 'steering grip' vs changing gears.
with PDK buttons, the fact that you use your thumbs for upshift / fingers for downshift gives you a better steering grip. This alone offers a superior sense of "in-control" driving compared to paddles.
With the paddle shift, you will not have your fingers on the paddles the whole time. You will find yourself alternating between gripping and releasing the steering in order to reach the paddles when needed. This alternation will effect your spontaneity and controlled driving.
Some may argue that with paddles, you have better control when cornering since you may never lose the positioning of the paddles even when you are not gripping the steering. The fact is that when you are cornering over 30mph, you cannot or should not release your steering grip even on a track. It is not like you will be rolling the steering over twice like you would do at 10mph.

You have to try both for a while (and not for just for a few days) to realise the advantages. some of you may disagree, but i guess that's what makes these threads interesting.

Very well stated. As a driver of a system similar to the 997.2 paddles (Corvette C6 paddle-shifter) I fully agree. The lemming reaction against it is just that - herd reaction.

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Oct 5, 2008 2:02:41 AM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Porsche rearranges pedal layout...

in a bid to be different. Clutch on the right, accelerator in the middle, brake on the left.

Stupid eh?

Just like the way the PDK shifters are. Why be different just for the sake of it, when the existing system (pull paddle right for upshift, pull paddle left for downshift) works perfectly well for every other serious manufacturer?

I guess when Porsche offers a T-Equipment wheel with proper paddle shifters for $800 we will know who was wrong...

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Oct 5, 2008 2:12:23 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Porsche rearranges pedal layout...

Quote:
Le Chef said:
in a bid to be different. Clutch on the right, accelerator in the middle, brake on the left.

Stupid eh?

Just like the way the PDK shifters are. Why be different just for the sake of it, when the existing system (pull paddle right for upshift, pull paddle left for downshift) works perfectly well for every other serious manufacturer?

I guess when Porsche offers a T-Equipment wheel with proper paddle shifters for $800 we will know who was wrong...

In all fairness PAG did not change anything. They already had dual tip buttons (left and right) and they used to have sequential shifting +- on the stick before with forward shift up and backwards shift down. This is a user interface issue (that anyone can learn quickly) and again in all fairness there is no standard. Some use fixed paddles, others use moving wheel-attached paddles. It's funny to watch the clamor. We shall indeed see if PAG sticks to its guns or gives up.

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Oct 5, 2008 3:45:49 AM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Source of sales

Former Tip buyers in the main stuck the car in "D" and left it there. The Tip flippers were rarely used after the first trip home. So no need to bother about making them happy. They will be as long as you have a "D" slot.

Stick shift owners. All of them will have to get used to it, but if they have prior experience of this type of box it's likely with Aston Martin, Audi BMW, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, AMG-Mercedes, etc. all of whom use right paddle up, left paddle down.

Current owners of paddle shifters from Aston, etc. are used to the "convention" of right paddle up, left paddle down so will have to unlearn this.

So a significant number are likely to come with some experience of paddle shifting. And those that have no practical experience will at least know how, in principal, they work. So where then is the logic of doing it differently?

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Oct 5, 2008 9:34:43 AM

C2Nerves: Junior; Loc: Beirut, Lebanon , Lebanon; Posts: 131, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2006; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Source of sales

Really, there is no right or wrong here. It is all a matter of what you get used to and how open minded you can be to new -or let's say different- technologies. This is porsche we are talking about; one of the world's leaders in sports car manufacturing. So I disagree when someone says that serious manufacturers does only paddles, and it has to be left for upshift and right for downshift. It doesnt have to be the same in all cars. Let alone in a carrera, a car that after 50 years still insist to keep the engine positioned in the rear end.
As an x-Tip owner -and like many other owners I know- I used to drive manual mode quite often and I find the shift sequence to be very appropriate.
I agree with ADias that this is a user interface and most new PDK owners will get used to it from day2.
I doubt it that porsche will ever come up with any paddle shifters. Even the panamera launch next year will include the same PDK option. Same will probably follow for the new turbo.
However, aftermarket steerings have already started to appear.

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Oct 5, 2008 10:39:14 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: C2Nerves

Re: Source of sales

Quote:
C2Nerves said:
Really, there is no right or wrong here. It is all a matter of what you get used to and how open minded you can be to new -or let's say different- technologies. This is porsche we are talking about; one of the world's leaders in sports car manufacturing. So I disagree when someone says that serious manufacturers does only paddles, and it has to be left for upshift and right for downshift. It doesnt have to be the same in all cars. Let alone in a carrera, a car that after 50 years still insist to keep the engine positioned in the rear end.
As an x-Tip owner -and like many other owners I know- I used to drive manual mode quite often and I find the shift sequence to be very appropriate.
I agree with ADias that this is a user interface and most new PDK owners will get used to it from day2.
I doubt it that porsche will ever come up with any paddle shifters. Even the panamera launch next year will include the same PDK option. Same will probably follow for the new turbo.
However, aftermarket steerings have already started to appear.

I agree with you 100% and I 've said the same all the way.
I am also amazed and puzzled at the difficulty various journalists have to adapt to the Porsche system, according to their reports. These people must either be prisoners of their habits or low IQ persons unable to adapt to simple routines. We press buttons and use various interfaces in our daily life from telephones to audio/video/computer/appliances/gadgets controls and our brain has the ability to learn quickly and adapt.

I am not saying that the Porsche system is better or worse;just different and for a normal person to adjust to it 5-10 minutes should be required.

Personally, I am expecting a PDK car and I've driven similar cars a few times so far, intentionally trying to find something wrong with the interface, because of all this critique, but I couldn't!

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Oct 5, 2008 11:50:20 AM

Nico997: Pilot; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 392, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: Source of sales

Quote:
reginos said:
These people must either be prisoners of their habits or low IQ persons unable to adapt to simple routines. We press buttons and use various interfaces in our daily life from telephones to audio/video/computer/appliances/gadgets controls and our brain has the ability to learn quickly and adapt.

Having to learn and adapt often means that there is a problem in terms of usability and ergonomics, which is true for 99% of the gadgets and the other things you mentionned. If in addition an interface requires a certain level of IQ to be used, then this interface is definitely a stupid one.

It would be good if, at a certain point in time, you accept that some may simply not like the PDK buttons. You show so much criticism towards these persons, I am one of them but I recognize that my IQ does not make me the most clever person ever, that I wonder if it is not simply because you have to be reassured with your choice to go for PDK.

If this is not the case then simply forget about these other persons and their criticisms, your clever brain has to be used for much more interesting things.

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Oct 5, 2008 12:11:54 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Nico997

Re: Source of sales

Quote:
Nico997 said:
Quote:
reginos said:
These people must either be prisoners of their habits or low IQ persons unable to adapt to simple routines. We press buttons and use various interfaces in our daily life from telephones to audio/video/computer/appliances/gadgets controls and our brain has the ability to learn quickly and adapt.

Having to learn and adapt often means that there is a problem in terms of usability and ergonomics, which is true for 99% of the gadgets and the other things you mentionned. If in addition an interface requires a certain level of IQ to be used, then this interface is definitely a stupid one.

It would be good if, at a certain point in time, you accept that some may simply not like the PDK buttons. You show so much criticism towards these persons, I am one of them but I recognize that my IQ does not make me the most clever person ever, that I wonder if it is not simply because you have to be reassured with your choice to go for PDK.

If this is not the case then simply forget about these other persons and their criticisms, your clever brain has to be used for much more interesting things.

Everybody can have a preference, that's an accepted fact and I am not disputing somebody's inclination towards the different system.

But at the same time adapting to a different modus operandi in a simple routine like changing gears through buttons/paddles is one of the simplest things in life and it shouldn't create such controversy and be presented as a huge obstacle by members of the press. This is the point I am trying to make.

It is not as if humans are born with a certain instinct for changing gears though +/- paddles and Porsche are trying to counter nature by introducing their current interface!

I decided on PDK and even if it was offered with the customary interface I wouldn't have a problem with it too.

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Oct 5, 2008 1:11:31 PM

C2Nerves: Junior; Loc: Beirut, Lebanon , Lebanon; Posts: 131, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2006; Reply to: reginos

Re: Source of sales

I agree fully with Reginos about his views regarding pdk buttons. This is an amazing technology that you can only appreciate when you 'know' the advantages. I think thats what he really meant.

It is surely wrong to talk about IQ's. This has nothing to do with IQ levels. One thing I learned from various forums is to respect members' opinions and try to add value to te subjects discussed. or else there is nothing to discuss. we are all in agreement so lets all sign off.

This is a preference issue and in IMO directly related to precision driving techniques. I explained in my posts the advantages of buttons over paddles in regards to steering grip. i tried both for long enough periods to appreciate the advantages and disadvantages of each. I am one of those who favor buttons by far!!

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Oct 5, 2008 2:05:10 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: C2Nerves

Push Pull Up Down

How about the shift knob? With my SMG experience I suggest you may find you use the knob more than the buttons.

On PDK the last I heard forward was upshifting and backward was downshifting.

Completely opposite of everything we learned since infants and then since coming to a light at 16 with a manual.

Pushing toward your feet is "down."

Pulling toward your head is "up."

Why did Porsche think it's okay to reverse this? To mess up guys who steal your car?

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Oct 5, 2008 2:12:29 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: C2Nerves

Re: Source of sales

Quote:
C2Nerves said:
It is surely wrong to talk about IQ's. This has nothing to do with IQ levels. One thing I learned from various forums is to respect members' opinions and try to add value to te subjects discussed. or else there is nothing to discuss. we are all in agreement so lets all sign off.

I brought this issue up not against people who contribute here, but against journalists who make a big issue and and a big fuss about this triviality.

Some of them write that they even get confused and change up instead of down!(see Autocar)

It is very valid and personal not like doing something, but to say that you cannot do a simple routine, is taking the issue a bit too far to say the least IMO.

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Oct 5, 2008 3:06:45 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: Source of sales

Quote:
reginos said:

These people must either be prisoners of their habits or low IQ persons unable to adapt to simple routines. We press buttons and use various interfaces in our daily life from telephones to audio/video/computer/appliances/gadgets controls and our brain has the ability to learn quickly and adapt.

I am not saying that the Porsche system is better or worse;just different and for a normal person to adjust to it 5-10 minutes should be required.

It's a matter of finding the natural structure of routines and sticking to them. Called, ergonomics (isn't it?).

The designer and developers have a RESPONSIBILITY to do things consistently with what other mfgrs. are doing if what they are doing is based correctly on what the body and mind have a proclivity to do.

Otherwise you are adding unnecessary chaos and extra work to people's already complex lives.

That's kinda why "seamlessness" is the highest virtue of our IT age, right?

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AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75446	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	54304	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	25525	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21240	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19600	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16656	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	13937	225
Motor Sp.	24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018	5/25/23 10:42 PM Grant	11301	55

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PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Re: PDK buttons to be replaced with paddles?!

Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Re: Porsche announces Tequipment paddle-shifter...

Porsche rearranges pedal layout...

Re: Porsche rearranges pedal layout...

Source of sales

Re: Source of sales

Re: Source of sales

Re: Source of sales

Re: Source of sales

Re: Source of sales

Push Pull Up Down

Re: Source of sales

Re: Source of sales

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