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Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Just my 2 cents worth:
1. LH didn't deserve to be penalized.
2. Not impressed with ANY driver this year. Most went off the track at least once.
3. LH needs to stop making silly comments - "was hoping for rain because I knew how to deal with it..." I suppose losing control on several occasions doesn't count.
4. Not stopping for rain tires was a BIG mistake.
5. Massa proved to be less than steller on the most demanding track - especially in the rain.
6. Kimi isn't the best driver nor the most consistant.
7. Really miss Michael Schumaker.
1. LH didn't deserve to be penalized.
2. Not impressed with ANY driver this year. Most went off the track at least once.
3. LH needs to stop making silly comments - "was hoping for rain because I knew how to deal with it..." I suppose losing control on several occasions doesn't count.
4. Not stopping for rain tires was a BIG mistake.
5. Massa proved to be less than steller on the most demanding track - especially in the rain.
6. Kimi isn't the best driver nor the most consistant.
7. Really miss Michael Schumaker.
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
Emperor said:Quote:
gangajas said:
So do you really think that rules shouldn't be applied to LH, that he should be allowed to cheat
Cheat? How did he cheat? He had fought hard for 5 laps or so so close in on Kimi and when he finally did it was time to get passed. He got dead close and side by side with Kimi, was clearly faster but Kimi pushed him out forcing him to drive over the chicane to avoid an accident. He lifted off and kindly let Kimi pass him and then went in for the kill again. IMO he did the overtaking in a very professional manner especially if you consider that the track was damp and that there wasn't too much room to pass.
By punishing Hamilton like this, FIA are discouraging overtakings. Not only that but their inconsistency in ruling is pathetic, especially when Ferrari get away with everything.
Are we going to start with the conspiracy theories and the crying? Some conspiracy theories and complaints are ok and others not?
I have been following your F1 posts and they are all anti-hamilton, because probably as you are spanish(?) and an Alonso fan, you have a dislike for LH because of last year.
You must realise that not all of us here are partisan and fanatical supporters of someone. Personally,I want to see good racing and fair sport and I don't care whoever wins, where he comes from, or if he is black, white or japanese.
The way Mclaren are handled by FIA is very biased against, compared to Ferrari. But, we have a saying that the fish smells from its head and if you look at the head of FIA you will realise why this organisation is rotten.
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
mp said:
Just my 2 cents worth:
1. LH didn't deserve to be penalized.
2. Not impressed with ANY driver this year. Most went off the track at least once.
3. LH needs to stop making silly comments - "was hoping for rain because I knew how to deal with it..." I suppose losing control on several occasions doesn't count.
4. Not stopping for rain tires was a BIG mistake.
5. Massa proved to be less than steller on the most demanding track - especially in the rain.
6. Kimi isn't the best driver nor the most consistant.
7. Really miss Michael Schumaker.
At least there was a clever driver there, "quick Nick" Heidfeld who changed tyres.
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
This is very very poor for the sport..
The FIA seem to be trying their best to destroy F1 and they are doing a very good job of it...
This was one of the better races of this year and they have ruined it... I just dont understand how they can be so random with the handing out punishments! I mean a $10k fine for Massa which is peanuts to the guy, yet hamilton gets a time penatly!
A complete lark.
Have been getting into Moto GP this year and I'm sorry to say that it makes F1 look like a joke!
The FIA seem to be trying their best to destroy F1 and they are doing a very good job of it...
This was one of the better races of this year and they have ruined it... I just dont understand how they can be so random with the handing out punishments! I mean a $10k fine for Massa which is peanuts to the guy, yet hamilton gets a time penatly!
A complete lark.
Have been getting into Moto GP this year and I'm sorry to say that it makes F1 look like a joke!
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
Emperor said:Quote:
gangajas said:
So do you really think that rules shouldn't be applied to LH, that he should be allowed to cheat
Cheat? How did he cheat? He had fought hard for 5 laps or so so close in on Kimi and when he finally did it was time to get passed. He got dead close and side by side with Kimi, was clearly faster but Kimi pushed him out forcing him to drive over the chicane to avoid an accident. He lifted off and kindly let Kimi pass him and then went in for the kill again. IMO he did the overtaking in a very professional manner especially if you consider that the track was damp and that there wasn't too much room to pass.
By punishing Hamilton like this, FIA are discouraging overtakings. Not only that but their inconsistency in ruling is pathetic, especially when Ferrari get away with everything.
Are we going to start with the conspiracy theories and the crying? Some conspiracy theories and complaints are ok and others not?
I have been following your F1 posts and they are all anti-hamilton, because probably as you are spanish(?) and an Alonso fan and you have a dislike for LH because of last year.
You must realise that not all of us here partisan and fanatical supporters of someone. Personally,I want to see good racing and fair sport and I don't care whoever wins where he comes from or if he black, white or japanese.
The way Mclaren are handled by FIA is very biased against compared to Ferrari. But, we have a saying that the fish smells from its head and if you look at the head of FIA you will realise why this organisation is rotten.
Good comments sir, agree 100%! At the end of day all we want is good solid racing and all descisions to be settled on the track. No interest in all of this political horse [beep] we have in F1!
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
Emperor said:Quote:
gangajas said:
So do you really think that rules shouldn't be applied to LH, that he should be allowed to cheat
Cheat? How did he cheat? He had fought hard for 5 laps or so so close in on Kimi and when he finally did it was time to get passed. He got dead close and side by side with Kimi, was clearly faster but Kimi pushed him out forcing him to drive over the chicane to avoid an accident. He lifted off and kindly let Kimi pass him and then went in for the kill again. IMO he did the overtaking in a very professional manner especially if you consider that the track was damp and that there wasn't too much room to pass.
By punishing Hamilton like this, FIA are discouraging overtakings. Not only that but their inconsistency in ruling is pathetic, especially when Ferrari get away with everything.
Are we going to start with the conspiracy theories and the crying? Some conspiracy theories and complaints are ok and others not?
I have been following your F1 posts and they are all anti-hamilton, because probably as you are spanish(?) and an Alonso fan and you have a dislike for LH because of last year.
You must realise that not all of us here partisan and fanatical supporters of someone. Personally,I want to see good racing and fair sport and I don't care whoever wins where he comes from or if he black, white or japanese.
The way Mclaren are handled by FIA is very biased against compared to Ferrari. But, we have a saying that the fish smells from its head and if you look at the head of FIA you will realise why this organisation is rotten.
I think they treat all the teams with equality, it's just that some teams are not used to that.
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
Emperor said:Quote:
gangajas said:
So do you really think that rules shouldn't be applied to LH, that he should be allowed to cheat
Cheat? How did he cheat? He had fought hard for 5 laps or so so close in on Kimi and when he finally did it was time to get passed. He got dead close and side by side with Kimi, was clearly faster but Kimi pushed him out forcing him to drive over the chicane to avoid an accident. He lifted off and kindly let Kimi pass him and then went in for the kill again. IMO he did the overtaking in a very professional manner especially if you consider that the track was damp and that there wasn't too much room to pass.
By punishing Hamilton like this, FIA are discouraging overtakings. Not only that but their inconsistency in ruling is pathetic, especially when Ferrari get away with everything.
Are we going to start with the conspiracy theories and the crying? Some conspiracy theories and complaints are ok and others not?
I have been following your F1 posts and they are all anti-hamilton, because probably as you are spanish(?) and an Alonso fan and you have a dislike for LH because of last year.
You must realise that not all of us here partisan and fanatical supporters of someone. Personally,I want to see good racing and fair sport and I don't care whoever wins where he comes from or if he black, white or japanese.
The way Mclaren are handled by FIA is very biased against compared to Ferrari. But, we have a saying that the fish smells from its head and if you look at the head of FIA you will realise why this organisation is rotten.
I think they treat all the teams with equality, it's just that some teams are not used to that.
Sure, taking away a victory hard-earned in risky conditions is the same as a fine of a few thousand euros!!
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Worst of all is that FIA demoted Hamilton to third place rather than second as if he done something horribly wrong. He was the fastest man on the circuit, Kimi knew this but decided not to give him way in the corner since Kimi had nothing to lose. Very strange and inconsistent ruling by FIA. Why not just give Hamilton a Euro 10 000 fine instead??
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
Emperor said:Quote:
gangajas said:
So do you really think that rules shouldn't be applied to LH, that he should be allowed to cheat
Cheat? How did he cheat? He had fought hard for 5 laps or so so close in on Kimi and when he finally did it was time to get passed. He got dead close and side by side with Kimi, was clearly faster but Kimi pushed him out forcing him to drive over the chicane to avoid an accident. He lifted off and kindly let Kimi pass him and then went in for the kill again. IMO he did the overtaking in a very professional manner especially if you consider that the track was damp and that there wasn't too much room to pass.
By punishing Hamilton like this, FIA are discouraging overtakings. Not only that but their inconsistency in ruling is pathetic, especially when Ferrari get away with everything.
Are we going to start with the conspiracy theories and the crying? Some conspiracy theories and complaints are ok and others not?
I have been following your F1 posts and they are all anti-hamilton, because probably as you are spanish(?) and an Alonso fan and you have a dislike for LH because of last year.
You must realise that not all of us here partisan and fanatical supporters of someone. Personally,I want to see good racing and fair sport and I don't care whoever wins where he comes from or if he black, white or japanese.
The way Mclaren are handled by FIA is very biased against compared to Ferrari. But, we have a saying that the fish smells from its head and if you look at the head of FIA you will realise why this organisation is rotten.
I think they treat all the teams with equality, it's just that some teams are not used to that.
Sure, taking away a victory hard-earned in risky conditions is the same as a fine of a few thousand euros!!
Different situations, different rules. And if by hard-earned victory you make taking adavantage of an illegal manouver I agree with you. There is a saying in basketball that if you do 40 faults the refeeres are going to call 30 and if you do 100 they are going to call 30 too, Hamilton thinks he can get away with everything and that's why he has been going over the rules since he started in F1. You cannot complain if they punish you when you have that attitude.
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
The stewards have spoiled what should have been a great advert for the sport, with the most exciting end to a race in years. Instead its alienating a lot of people. They either fine everyone 10k as they did Massa at the last race or everyone gets a drive through. THe inconsistency in decisions really taints the championship.
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
fritz said:
Hey, Heist. Don't hold yourself back.
Tell us what you really think.
I'm sorry Fritz. I got worked up, but it was justified.
I mean if you want to talk "order of magnitude" - when Hamilton blew the red and took out 2 cars in the pits, I think a 10 place penalty the next race was justified.
But
(1) On a difficult track in worsening conditions,
(2) To do the prudent thing and avoid an accident (Let's not forget, Hamilton could have just have easily plowed right into KR's sidepod and pushed back),
(3) Then to get back in line with no position gain and an actuality lose.
(4) And come back and pass safely.
(5) And it had no material effect on the race because Raikonnen crashed himself out of the race by pushing too hard on the track.
... to penalize him by stripping him of his win and dropping him to 3rd, it just makes no f*cking sense. None whatsoever.
If anything, it only shows that Ferrari Inside Assistance... I mean the the FIA has a blatant slant and bias.
(Lest we no forget that Massa/Ferrari only got a $20,000 fine for almost causing a disasterous pit accidently last weekend by not yielding to the car in the pit lane which by order of magnitude is multiple times worse.)
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
Heist said:Quote:
fritz said:
Hey, Heist. Don't hold yourself back.
Tell us what you really think.
I'm sorry Fritz. I got worked up, but it was justified.
No need to be sorry.
I was just amused to see you use all the expletives that I had carefully omitted from my post.
Sep 7, 2008 9:49:28 PM
- YorkshireExpat
- Newbie
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- Loc: Bavaria, Germany
- Posts: 22, Gallery
- Registered on: Sep 12, 2006
- Reply to: gangajas
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
gangajas said:
I think they treat all the teams with equality, it's just that some teams are not used to that.
Quote:
GP2 Series title fighter Bruno Senna has spoken out at the level of consistency of stewards' rulings over the release of cars during pitstops.
Speaking after he was given a drive-through penalty that cost him a likely race win at Spa on Saturday, Senna said he was penalised for the same situation that Felipe Massa faced in the recent European Grand Prix at Valencia and Lucas di Grassi did to him in the GP2 race at Silverstone earlier in the year.
Senna almost hit Alberto Valerio's car, which was coming into the pits for its mandatory pitstop as Senna was exiting his box.
...
"I am really sad about the rules not being applied consistently. Nothing happened at Silverstone when I had to lock-up to avoid di Grassi, and Massa was only fined for what happened in Valencia."
Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70361
Some teams are more equal than others.
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
Heist said:Quote:
fritz said:
Hey, Heist. Don't hold yourself back.
Tell us what you really think.
I'm sorry Fritz. I got worked up, but it was justified.
No need to be sorry.
I was just amused to see you use all the expletives that I had carefully omitted from my post.
No worries. I just don't understand how the FIA could so blantantly get it all wrong ... and no once call for a complete overhaul of management.
NASCAR would never make such a stupid blunder like this, and they're supposed to be a bunch of "inbreed, redneck hicks"
Sep 7, 2008 10:58:24 PM
- Alex_997TT
- Rennteam Master
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- Loc: Reading , United Kingdom
- Posts: 3320, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 20, 2005
- Reply to: YorkshireExpat
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
I say the FIA should ban all overtaking during a race, that way we can watch some paint dry at the same time as the GP.
Oh, and only red cars can ever win as that's all the steward's favourite colour.
I know, all non-red cars should be checked for speeding by traffic cops during the race as they obviously have no business going fast on a race track! "Speed kills"!
Oh, and only red cars can ever win as that's all the steward's favourite colour.
I know, all non-red cars should be checked for speeding by traffic cops during the race as they obviously have no business going fast on a race track! "Speed kills"!
Sep 7, 2008 11:10:05 PM
- SlvSurfer
- Co-Pilot
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- Loc: MC
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- Registered on: Jul 19, 2004
- Reply to: Alex_997TT
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
The FIA (Frustratingly Irritating Attitude) are finally killing this sport. 
Two laps of incredibly exiting racing, which is what they should be promoting, ruined by this ruling.
Let's hope the appeal is successful and justice is done....there is no possible way that Massa deserved to win this race.
Two laps of incredibly exiting racing, which is what they should be promoting, ruined by this ruling.
Let's hope the appeal is successful and justice is done....there is no possible way that Massa deserved to win this race.
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
Enzo911 said:
And again...Alonso Japan 2005
what about it?
from googling the race report. still not sure what your point is? it doesn't mention Alonso getting a 25 seconds penalty.
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=203165
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
Heist said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfLs2-w1NlY
F*ck the FIA! I am so goddamn livid right................... want to give Ferrari the damn title, just do it already and end the f*cking suspense. Stop wasting everyone's time.
I fully agree with Heist (pardon the language though), it is a shame that F1 is regulated in this manner as there is definitely a biast to Ferrari. Very frustrating and I actually was very upset and thought about it the whole night (couldn't get my head round it why
!)
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
Markdsv said:Quote:
Heist said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfLs2-w1NlY
F*ck the FIA! I am so goddamn livid right................... want to give Ferrari the damn title, just do it already and end the f*cking suspense. Stop wasting everyone's time.
I fully agree with Heist (pardon the language though), it is a shame that F1 is regulated in this manner as there is definitely a biast to Ferrari. Very frustrating and I actually was very upset and thought about it the whole night (couldn't get my head round it why
It would have been a mitigating factor if Ferrari, notwithstanding this bias, had a driver that deserved to take the 2008 title.
Kimi is somewhere else most of the time this season and that leaves this non-person, non-driver Massa to be the contender!
Now with this big points gap between the 2 Ferrari drivers, I wonder if Raikkonen is going to help Massa in the usual Ferrari way, or do his own thing. It will be interesting!
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
"Alonso was compromised by a bit of nonsense from the FIA -- stewards told Renault that Fernando had to let Klien past (again) due to yellow flags, then they changed their minds! Too late by then, Alonso had already ceded to Klien then had to pass him all over again."
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Where did a 25 Second penalty come from anyway?
On another note. For those that have driven around Spa, isn't it superb to watch these cars go round when you know the circuit quite intimately. Take "Eau Rouge" for instance, only a slight lift towards the top, or the speed around "Pouhon", simply amazing it really is.
On another note. For those that have driven around Spa, isn't it superb to watch these cars go round when you know the circuit quite intimately. Take "Eau Rouge" for instance, only a slight lift towards the top, or the speed around "Pouhon", simply amazing it really is.
Sep 8, 2008 9:20:22 AM
- easy_rider911
- Rennteam VIP
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- Loc: London , United Kingdom
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- Reply to: ResB
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
25 seconds was a totally arbitrary number designed to ensure that not only could Massa be deemed to have won but also that Heidfeld could be deemed to have come second too. Talk about 'engineering' ways to lessen the lead that Hamilton has over Massa in the Driver's Championship! The whole decision was an outrage. The stewards have lost all credibility in my eyes.
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
SlvSurfer said:
As long as Ferrari wins.. but I don't really care for the penalty. I'm just pissed that the "Iceman" isn't performing. He's a World Champion for God sake, he should drive like one.
I am with you on that one.
Unlike previous seasons the main factor in Kimi's lack of success isnt his car, but his driving. At least that's how it looks from the outside.
Who knows how the car really performs.
At any rate, it's a darn shame that he doesn't have the luck and/or stability to perform better.
Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa
Quote:
ResB said:
They did actually collide. (...)
You're kidding of course, LH made his move initially and has his nose in front of KR, however, he had the wrong line totally so I don't know exactly what he was trying to do. It did however do enough to spook KR, hence the lock up and the eventual "slight collision" where LH decided to cut the corner, I think this was genuine and as not to cause a more serious incident.
He did let KR past and perhaps did gain a slight advantage being in his slip stream and I think thats where the problem lies. I don't think the advantage was on the chicane. LH would have been all over KR at later stages so god only knows why he did it then.
Agreed, but he had his race head on as opposed the tactical one.
Ah well, LH still a bit to learn I think, but the Stewards inquiry was a little harsh I think....
Hey Res.
No, I am dead serious. Check out the frames I have collected.
If we are talking about the same incident (?) it's pretty straightforward IMO.
Classic racing, normal battle. LH tries to go around on the outside, but hasnt got the momentum or the line to pass coming into the chikane.
Kimi brakes late as far as I can tell, and holds his line coming into the chikane.
LH has to run wide to avoid a collision - one that would have been self-inflicted I might add.
Unless you find it reasonable that Kimi should have run off the track to let LH pass, I think its fair to say, that LH made an attempt at passing that just didnt work out.
He came out of the chikan in front of Kimi, but either didnt have the momentum, or chose to back of to avoid a penalty.
At any rate he was clearly faster than Kimi and would likely have taken him later, so the whole maneuver was less than clever.
The FIA penalty is a complete joke.
LH and Kimi had a straight battle and a pretty clean one, too.
No Schumi moves or anything. But this is F1 and we are supposed to watch the sport for exaclty this kind of battle and excitement.
So to punish a driver who is delivering just that is so lame, that I cant describe it.
LH made a mistake in the chikane, but it's clear to most people that he had better grip than Kimi and didn't push Kimi off, he didnt drive like Schumi in his crazy days - all he basically did was give us a good show and win the race.
The FIA seems to be either pro-Ferrari or servicing people who are interested in keeping the championship open until the very end.
A lot of money is at stake here, and I am sure that there is more money in an open and exciting finale than in having a single driver being too far in front.
On the other hand - Schumi had a season where he had already become champ mid-season, so who knows.
All I know is, it seems corrupted.
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