Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Bilstein B16 Damptronic: A Must For The Turbo - Page3

Jul 14, 2008 3:35:42 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Given the 1000s of motorway miles we are doing on the Europe trip I might wait until I get back before fitting the Bilstein's. It bad enough I am dragging the new Mrs with me on a driving holiday, without adding injury to insult from a bumpy ride.

I have found some for about $2650 in the US, which is Pounds1000 cheaper than here in the UK (of course then I have to pay shipping, duty and VAT).

The big issue I have is getting someone to fit them. I have contacted all specialists within 100 miles of me and nobody has even responded. The search goes on.

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Jul 15, 2008 12:35:39 AM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Something I learned when trying to get suspension installed on my 944 turbo, most installers may be reluctant to install parts that you have supplied from another source because of the potential problems/issues with aftermarket equipment. One installer refused to do the install saying if anything went wrong with the parts he would blame the supplier, the supplier would blame him, I would blame both parties, etc. This may or may not be the reason you have not heard back from anyone.

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Jul 15, 2008 2:00:39 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Yes I agree with your plan regarding the new Mrs. Better to do the Bilstein after the long trip.
May I also suggest laying low with respect to all Porsche stuffs and rennteam posts, during the honeymoon? "Normal" people, they just don't understand, Alex, and need a slow period of adjustment...
Ok, maybe at least the first day of the honeymoon?

Now the serious stuff: Have you checked with Vivid Racing or AWE re. price? Bilstein PSS10 should be available for US $2500 easily. All you need to say is so and so on this forum got it for this price and ask vendor to match.

Quote:
Alex_997TurboRSC said:
Given the 1000s of motorway miles we are doing on the Europe trip I might wait until I get back before fitting the Bilstein's. It bad enough I am dragging the new Mrs with me on a driving holiday, without adding injury to insult from a bumpy ride.

I have found some for about $2650 in the US, which is Pounds1000 cheaper than here in the UK (of course then I have to pay shipping, duty and VAT).

The big issue I have is getting someone to fit them. I have contacted all specialists within 100 miles of me and nobody has even responded. The search goes on.

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Jul 15, 2008 1:35:29 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Question: how much do the damptronics weigh in their box?

I tried to look for the weight on the box you put up on the first post but couldn't spot it.

I need to calculate likely shipping (and thereby duty/vat) costs.

Cheers

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Jul 16, 2008 5:38:28 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Quote:
salihbjk said:
One last question, does the 1" drop affects riding quality too much?

I am not sure I understand your question, but AFAIK ride height drop that is within Bilstein's recommended range of 10-25 mm has zero, or at most minimal, effect on the effective spring rate. I mean if someone thinks I am wrong I could call Bilstein again. I've call them so many times, what's one more.

I do recommend the height drop because that is the easiest and most cost effective method of improving your car's handling; the down side being scraping of course. The law of physics implies that lower height = lower center of gravity = better handling, as long as you don't over-do it and change the geometry of PAG's suspension setup, as well as hit the dampener's internal bump stop.
In one of my posts above, you'll find that Bilstein actually RECOMMENDS a minimal height drop of 10 mm. You won't scrape the front lip that much more with just a 10 mm drop; mine is 20 and I do scrape a little more. It's only $150 anyway so it's no big deal.

Alex,
I am emailing Dan at vividracing.com for the weight. I could lift the box so it couldn't be that heavy. But then again I was so pumped with joy the box could be 100 lbs. and I'd need no more than 2 fingers.

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Jul 16, 2008 12:20:21 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Had a chat with the Manthey reseller for the UK and they didn't recommend Bilstein saying they weren't good quality and were too stiff. However, upon explaining further, I mentioned the Damptronics were used in conjunction with PASM and he conceded that he didn't know anything about those.

Anyway, Manthey apparent use KW Suspension kits which are said to transform even GT3's into handling akin to Cup cars! I am intrigued, but would be very nervous to move away from PASM.

Either directions of KW or even Bilstein they could fit for me (MUCH better price than Parr and equally if not more knowledgeable) so it looks like I have found my fitter. Just need the parts now.

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Jul 16, 2008 1:53:04 PM

AK997TT: Junior; Loc: SoCal; Posts: 76, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 22, 2006; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

IMO Bilstein is perfect for the street and occasional track. I do not want a cup car suspension on my street car!

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Jul 16, 2008 2:22:26 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: AK997TT

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Quote:
AK997TT said:
IMO Bilstein is perfect for the street and occasional track. I do not want a cup car suspension on my street car!

Was using a GT3 which spends most of it's life on a track as an example.

Of course we don't want anything that unforgiving on public roads in a Turbo, but the Manthey kits cater for that preference too and are meant to be a HUGE improvement over PASM.

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Jul 16, 2008 3:05:00 PM

ERdoc: Junior; Loc: Fragrant Harbour; Posts: 135, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 1, 2005; Reply to: POET

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Quote:
POET said:
..another great write up on the Pss10. Its certainly has done the biz. Cost all in, here in HK, including wheel alignment..HKD29800(usd3820 using 7.8 to the $)...just under 2k squid...(HKD15.5 to pound)...

POET: I am interested in the same for my 997 C4S. May I ask which dealer/tuner you used? Many thanks.

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Jul 17, 2008 6:02:11 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

I think any of these after market systems could compete very well with the Bilstein PSS10. Unfortunately, none of us will ever have a chance to have a proper long term comparison test. So anecdotal reports and educated guesses from system parameters are all we could go by. I love Bilstein but am not married to it and wouldn't doubt that maybe there is a system that fits some of us better than PSS10. Do they have car for you to test drive? You have time; take time and test all the systems.

Don't think you could go wrong with a system endorsed by a company with the great reputation of Manthey. But someone makes a comment on Bilstein and yet doesn't know about PASM?

Has he actually driven either of said cars or are the comments speculative?
Keep in mind, all else being equal, in any competently design system, comfort = less handling capability, stiffness = less body roll, less dive & squat, better handling--up to a point that is. Bottom line is nothing comes free as it's a game of trade off, ride vs. handling.

Quote:
Alex_997TurboRSC said:
Had a chat with the Manthey reseller for the UK and they didn't recommend Bilstein saying they weren't good quality and were too stiff. However, upon explaining further, I mentioned the Damptronics were used in conjunction with PASM and he conceded that he didn't know anything about those.

Anyway, Manthey apparent use KW Suspension kits which are said to transform even GT3's into handling akin to Cup cars! I am intrigued, but would be very nervous to move away from PASM.

Either directions of KW or even Bilstein they could fit for me (MUCH better price than Parr and equally if not more knowledgeable) so it looks like I have found my fitter. Just need the parts now.

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Jul 17, 2008 6:03:53 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

I didn't say he doesn't know about PASM, I said he didn't know of Damptonics that work with it.

To be honest, I like having a button that changes the ride. So I don't think I would ever go with a system that you had to disable PASM.

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Jul 22, 2008 6:56:56 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Quote:
Alex_997TurboRSC said:
...
To be honest, I like having a button that changes the ride. So I don't think I would ever go with a system that you had to disable PASM.

Hello Alex,

There is one key difference between stock PASM and Bilstein PASM that is worth mentioning.

1. In the stock dampener, NORMAL is very soft, 1 on a scale of 1 to 10, whereas FIRM is very hard, a 10 on the same scale. IMHO: In NORMAL, the rear end has a lot of vertical motion (underdamped?), going up and down like a pogo stick in bumpy curves. In contrast FIRM is so hard (overdamped?) that the rear end wants to go airborne in same high speed bumpy curves.

2. In the Bilstein, the difference between NORMAL and SPORT is much much much less drastic. So small is the difference that some of us new to the system would initially thought there is no difference at all! I would say Bilstein NORMAL is about a 7, and FIRM about a 8 or 9. Again if my multiple postings

haven't got the point through: the scale number doesn't describe enough that Bilstein FIRM is a thousand times more useable than Stock FIRM.

This is part of the reason I --rightly or wrongly-- selected whole coilover replacement (dampener plus spring) over just replacing the spring. I am very suspicious of the stock dampener and, if only as an amateur, think that PAG has not implemented the current PASM system correctly. It appears to me a middle level in between the 2 extremes that Porsche has chosen would have been better.

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Jul 22, 2008 1:21:58 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Thanks Can

What Bilstein's are in the GT-R? That seems to handle pretty well for it's size!

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Jul 22, 2008 2:55:03 PM

atomic80: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bellevue, WA USA , United States; Posts: 2596, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2006; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

I think that the GT-R uses Damptronics but they're optimized for that particular car.

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Jul 23, 2008 4:30:43 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: atomic80

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Some notes regarding the anti-sway bars that I installed and their settings. For those not familiar with anti-sway bars: Unlike the stock sway, which has only one hole, after-market sways typically have 3. The one closest to the main bar is stiffest, while the one furthest is softest (I've been told that in GMG the softest hole has the same level of stiffness as the stock car.). As you move to a stiffer setting, as expected the car will roll less in corners; however, there is also an undesirable consequence, and that is the suspension itself becomes stiffer & ride suffers--street bumps, etc., will feel worse.

While it was initially recommended to me that the sway setting be full soft front & full stiff rear (to reduce understeer), my wise and patient installer http://www.lucentmotor.com/ feels that this is not necessarily the best and recommends the middle setting for both front and rear.
To make a long story short, Tom the owner of Lucent set the sway bar both ways for me to try (why a patient and nice installer is a most beautiful thing

), and I've found his prediction to be spot-on. With full soft front, full stiff rear, the front feels soft and loose and the rear punishingly bone-rattling hard.
I've gone back to Atomic80's thread on this topic to look at the pictures he posted. Interestingly enough, his installer set it the same way: middle setting both front and rear. (Keep in mind mine is GMG made by Eibach, Atomic80's I think is H&R, and I don't know how they behave relative to each other.)

Enclosed is a picture of the end of the sway bar with the 3 holes. I bought GMG only because initially I was going to pair it with the GMG spring, other companies like H&R also make after market sways.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ad material from GMG http://www.gmgracing.com/porsche_suspension.shtml
GMG WC 997TT Sway Bar Kit
MG has worked with Eibach to develop the GMG WC sport sway bar kit for 997TT owners. The sway bars are 3 way adjustable front and 3 way adjustable. Rear sport sway bars are over 50%, front 30% stiffer than the factory bar's and are supplied with urethane bushings and offer the most tensional rigidity on the market today. Will work with stock suspension or coil over kits. Designed specifically for the 997TT these bars are a direct bolt on replacement with no need for additional sway bar end links. There are also no problems with front axle clearance like with other sway bars on the market.

Sold as front and rear set only.

Price: $695.00 per pair

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Jul 23, 2008 4:35:22 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Picture of GMG sway bar in car. Pay attention to the link between the sway and the car's suspension. This is called a "drop link." AKA my next toy and the source of further happiness and exploration.

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Jul 24, 2008 11:12:26 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Enclosed is a picture or Atomic80's (thanks Jason) car during the sway bar installation. You could see that his is hooked up at the middle hole, with the stiffest hole being open (not used). Typically there would be 3 holes with after-market sways, the third one here probably blocked from view by the dampener.

Anyway, final impression of the sway bar: I first thought the effect is subtle, but after trying two different combinations of settings (soft front-stiff rear versus mid front-mid rear), I've found that "subtle" is most definitely not the correct description!
In the rear, using the the stiffest hole makes the car extremely hard, and noisy. It was not fun. In the front, going from soft to mid level stiffness brings two benefits. One, it allows me to enter curves, including those off camber ones, at higher speed as the car leans less (as expected), and the outside front tire doesn't feel like it's "rolling on itself" nearly as much. Cornering is so much more fun with less body roll as the car behaves as if it's on rails. Two, the flabbiness of the steering response is much reduced as my tuner tightened the front sway. This is the most pleasant surprise of this sway bar experiment.

BTW, next topic of discussion will be that red thing, source of further toy, joy, and happiness.

It is called the "drop link" and serves as the connection between the sway bar and the suspension. More discussion to come.

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Jul 27, 2008 6:29:26 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Some before and after pictures. Before:

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Jul 27, 2008 6:37:24 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

This is after:

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Jul 27, 2008 3:33:22 PM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Very nice can, I'll be posting my impressions of the entire gmg setup soon, springs, sways, dogs, toes, porsche cup adj control arms and thrust bushings, etc. I initially just wanted to be able to dial in some more camber for the track, but you know how that goes! farnbacherloles is going to set the car up for me shortly. According to the boys at GMG, there is no need for the droplinks in their setup.
Keep the info coming Can!
Had an extended test drive in Anthony's car this AM, he has the entire GMG setup, in a word it is perfect.
C

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Jul 28, 2008 7:32:38 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: TT Surgeon

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Thanks Chris. You can't go wrong with the reputation and experience of GMG. Their package is compelling indeed & I look forward to your report. Even after choosing the Bilstein, I remain curious about other solutions that aim to squeeze the softness out of this car.

To me the Turbo is a car of LIMITLESS sporting potential, just shackled perhaps a little bit by marketing choice (can't argue with this, some do like the car in stock form). The beauty of it is, really it is so simple, makes the thing a little stiffer, a little tighter

, and all is right in the world again.
Kidding aside, anyone curious about this should have a quick visit to www.6speedonline.com and count the number of people --admittedly not necessarily NORMAL

people-- who have stiffened the car. (PAG are you *listening*?)

Re. other mods, I hear that beyond the basic big 3 of swing/coilover, sway, and GT3 alignment, the next great one is the Rear Toe Control Arm (in your case, supposedly the version with bump steer because you track). I've been told by more than one reputable source that unlike a lot of the other mods (like dog bones, thrust arm bushing, and maybe even this drop link I am evaluating now), the Rear Toe Link provides advantage --rear end stability-- without sacrificing much Noise Vibration Harshness in return.

Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
Very nice can, I'll be posting my impressions of the entire gmg setup soon, springs, sways, dogs, toes, porsche cup adj control arms and thrust bushings, etc. I initially just wanted to be able to dial in some more camber for the track, but you know how that goes! farnbacherloles is going to set the car up for me shortly. According to the boys at GMG, there is no need for the droplinks in their setup.
Keep the info coming Can!
Had an extended test drive in Anthony's car this AM, he has the entire GMG setup, in a word it is perfect.
C

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Jul 28, 2008 1:16:32 PM

eclou: Veteran; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 1182, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

toe link huh? Just when I thought I was done, they keep dragging me back in...

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Jul 28, 2008 3:05:23 PM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: eclou

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Yes Gene, check out the gmg site!
I was gonna go with the regular toe links as rec by fabryce at gmg.
C

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Jul 29, 2008 5:34:21 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: eclou

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Ahh... I am glad my postings got even rennteam's "master mechanic" interested.

A couple of professional tuners have repeatedly told me that, beyond the basic big 3 of alignment, sway, and coilover, the after-market Rear Toe Link is the single most cost effective, harmless, and beneficial mod to the suspension. I am not adding it partly because I would like to have a few months between changes, and partly at my level of amateur driving skill, the car is perfect as is. Nevertheless, I kept asking, and they kept telling me the mod adds no NVH, so I think it's a matter of time before this thing goes on to my car too.

It's reversible and the cost entirely reasonable.

I think it would be GREAT to hear your impression of this mod, particularly because of your experience at the track.

Quote:
eclou said:
toe link huh? Just when I thought I was done, they keep dragging me back in...

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Jul 29, 2008 5:51:49 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: TT Surgeon

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
Yes Gene, check out the gmg site!
I was gonna go with the regular toe links as rec by fabryce at gmg.
C

Chris,

Was there a reason why Fabryce didn't recommend the one with Bump Steer Correction?

Besides cost, is there ANY other disadvantage, like difficulty in setting up or more noise?

Looking the GMG's picture, I could see the one without bump steer correction has one end that looks like rubber, whereas the one with bump steer looks all metallic. Without:

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Jul 29, 2008 5:54:34 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

With:

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Jul 29, 2008 7:41:15 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Quote:
cannga said:
Chris,

Was there a reason why Fabryce didn't recommend the one with Bump Steer Correction?

Besides cost, is there ANY other disadvantage, like difficulty in setting up or more noise?

Looking the GMG's picture, I could see the one without bump steer correction has one end that looks like rubber, whereas the one with bump steer looks all metallic. Without:

Never mind that question re. the rubber thing at the end of the Rear Toe Link without Bump Steer. Explanation below, from Tarett Engineering http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/list.htm:

>>>>>>
You must be referring to the end that connects to the wheel carrier. There's a rubber boot covering the ball joint on the factory part. It's actually a steel ball in an aluminum housing with a plastic bushing between them. The bump steer design has a steel ball in a steel housing, but with a Teflon liner between them, and no rubber boot.

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Jul 30, 2008 4:07:57 AM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: cannga

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Quote:
cannga said:
Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
Yes Gene, check out the gmg site!
I was gonna go with the regular toe links as rec by fabryce at gmg.
C

Chris,

Was there a reason why Fabryce didn't recommend the one with Bump Steer Correction?

Besides cost, is there ANY other disadvantage, like difficulty in setting up or more noise?

Looking the GMG's picture, I could see the one without bump steer correction has one end that looks like rubber, whereas the one with bump steer looks all metallic. Without:

I believe it has to do with ride ht, he relly didn't dwell on it.

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Jul 30, 2008 4:21:05 AM

atomic80: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bellevue, WA USA , United States; Posts: 2596, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2006; Reply to: TT Surgeon

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Isn't this the same thing as the droplinks I had installed?

Or are those rear toe links for something else entirely? The droplinks I have are for the sway bars. Where do those toe links attach to?

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Jul 30, 2008 2:41:20 PM

GT: Senior; Loc: london , United Kingdom; Posts: 618, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 14, 2006; Reply to: atomic80

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Directly from Tarrett;
"In my opinion, the adjustable rear toe link kit is the most cost effective and best improvement you can do to the 996/997 suspension, for track or street use. The rod end in the toe link kit replaces the rubber bushing in the factory toe link. The rubber bushing flexes under accelerating and decelerating, causing toe changes in the rear suspension. These sudden toe changes make the car very unstable. You will notice a significant improvement in stability, without any increase in noise or vibration. I also have a locking plate kit that replaces the factory eccentric adjuster for the toe link. The factory adjuster is commonly known to slip under heavy loading, resulting in needing to realign the rear suspension toe. The locking plate can only be used on cars with adjustable toe link kits, and is relatively cheap insurance to eliminate the chances of the eccentrics slipping. The swaybars, PSS10's, and toe links are main improvements you can do. Anything else would be mainly for track applications."

Just ordered them and will hopefully be able to try them sometime in august together with my new dymags. Unfortunately the 3rd (and very exciting!) mod I had in mind, the new GT2 seats that I had ordered won't be available anytime soon..

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Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21693	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	20128	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	17058	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	14336	225
Motor Sp.	24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018	5/25/23 10:42 PM Grant	11503	55
Porsche	Porsche Mission X Hypercar	12/3/23 8:52 AM 996FourEss	11190	63

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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

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