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    Mar 28, 2008 3:51:13 PM

    stubenhocker
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    stubenhocker
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    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    "Alonso is a truly great driver, maybe one of the greatest ever. Of that I have no doubt. But he has proven that he is only a good team mate when he is the lead driver with a non-threatening guy like Fisichella or Nelsinho as the number 2 man."
    A 'team player" is precisely the kind of character you do not want to have if you desire being world champion. It takes someone totally driven for their own self interest to be able to survive all of the challenges presented by F1! THat being said, I have always thought and still do, that Kimi is the best driver and was penalized by McLaren's reliability issues while there.

    Mar 29, 2008 11:56:15 AM

    WAY
    Rennteam Master
    WAY
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    Reply to: stubenhocker

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    I disagree with your assessment there stubenhocker. A team player is required these days to be a world champion. Why? Well, a team player motivates the team at the factory who design, build and engineers the car. A team player has a good rapport with everyone who works with him. Think about your own company/workplace. How much effort would you put into to help a guy who only thinks of himself and no one else?

    Mar 29, 2008 12:35:18 PM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: WAY

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Alonso has always been a public relations disaster, even back in the days when he was a champion at Renault. He simply doesn't keep his mouth shut and tend in many cases to say controversial things which the team necessarily don't agree with.

    The dude is a matador, a sole rider with nothing else but success and victory in sight, which is why he don't mind switching teams at all.

    Sadly there is no way Ferrari or Italy would tolerate his behavior. Ferrari has the best team spirit on the entire grid, nobody is bigger than the team. Alonso driving for Ferrari would be like putting a stripper in a room full of nuns. The team would simply deteriorate.

    Alonso fans shouldn't hold their breath regarding him joining Ferrari anytime soon. That ain't going to happen because he and Kimi would impossibly be able to drive side by side in harmony without generating head lines. We all saw that happened at Mclaren last year and Ferrari would certainly not want to go through an emotional circus like Ron Dennis did.

    What about Massa? He's under severe pressure and need to deliver top performance next week, especially if he tends to battle for WDC which he will unlikely win. Although he has a contract for Ferrari until the end of 2010 Ferrari can still bench him if they want to, or even buy him out. I'm sure there are one or two clauses in the contract which allow Ferrari to sack him if he under delivers. With Ferrari and Torro Rosso's tight relationship Vettel is the biggest candidate to jump into a red suit. He's young, talented and has a promising future ahead of him. The only thing holding him back at the moment is the crappy reliability of his car. Along side Kimi he would make the perfect apprentice with the capacity to grown into becoming Ferrari's next champion in 3 years.

    Robert Kubica's contract expires at the end of the year making it possible for Alonso to join BMW. They are especially attractive now when they can match the pace of Mclaren and Ferrari.

    Mar 29, 2008 3:05:43 PM

    Heist
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    Heist
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Regarding Massa, he can be bumped down to a testing role at any time - typically these contracts are written up guaranteeing the driver a SEAT on the team. Which seat, whether that be Driver, Co-Driver, or Testing Pilot is usually never specified just for these reasons.

    In addition, all F1 drivers have a buy-out clause in their contract which can be executed at the team's discretion at any time for any number of reasons; firing/underperformance, a better driver comes available, sponsors pull their funding, etc. etc.


    As to our friend Alonso, that guy has shown undoubtedly the worst stereotypes associated with male Spaniards/Latinos - an inability to control one's mouth and temper, bullheadedness, public displays of ego, machismo, and bravado, and just a general lack of tack and diplomacy.

    He's a great talent, no denying, but he's also shown that he absolutely cannot get along with anyone on his team who may be his equal or better. The guy does not have a team player attitude unless said team revolves around him and HIS need to win a Championship. Not the TEAM'S NEED, but his need.

    That said, the guy is a poisionous addition to any team - he may win you a Championship, he may not. But he absolutely will implode any semblance of team strength and solidarity if he feels his needs aren't being met.

    Mar 30, 2008 12:09:28 AM

    Dr. Phil Offline
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    Dr. Phil
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    Reply to: Heist

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Heist said:
    As to our friend Alonso, that guy has shown undoubtedly the worst stereotypes associated with male Spaniards/Latinos - an inability to control one's mouth and temper, bullheadedness, public displays of ego, machismo, and bravado, and just a general lack of tack and diplomacy.

    He's a great talent, no denying, but he's also shown that he absolutely cannot get along with anyone on his team who may be his equal or better. The guy does not have a team player attitude unless said team revolves around him and HIS need to win a Championship. Not the TEAM'S NEED, but his need.

    That said, the guy is a poisionous addition to any team - he may win you a Championship, he may not. But he absolutely will implode any semblance of team strength and solidarity if he feels his needs aren't being met.



    Well put! That is an extremely accurate assessment of Alonso and his situation IMO

    Apr 1, 2008 7:23:29 PM

    Gladstone
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    My prediction for this weekend has Massa for the win, and Alonso on the podium. It's not that I disagree with anyone here, it is just a kind of a twist of fate prediction.

    Apr 4, 2008 11:04:50 AM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: Gladstone

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Well, Ferrari looks very strong in Friday's 1st practice:

    http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2008/789/

    It looks like the teams' relative strengths will be very similar to Malaysia.

    Let's see if Massa can keep the car on the track this time

    Apr 4, 2008 1:14:16 PM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Again, Ferrari are 1 and 2 with Massa nearly a second quicker than anyone else in Friday Practice 2. Clearly Kimi is not pushing it and will reveal his real speed in Qualification tomorrow whereas Massa is feeling all the pressure of not scoring any points in 2 races so he's obviously desperate to look like he is trying his best:

    http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2008/789/6493/

    Looks like it may well be Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Williams etc etc...

    Apr 4, 2008 2:00:57 PM

    Leawood911
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    Reply to: Gladstone

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    I agree - by the way I just watched Hamilton hit the wall HARD. Not much skill displayed in that move. His team mate had just posted a quicker time so he was a little hurried, should we say. Glad he is not hurt!
    Scratch one car/chassis - It's going to be a long night in the pits or Mc/Mc.

    Apr 4, 2008 2:11:58 PM

    easy_rider911
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    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    It's interesting how there are drivers with the following nationalities on the F1 grid:

    5 Germans
    4 British
    3 Brazilians
    2 Italians
    2 Finnish
    2 Japanese
    1 Spanish
    1 Australian
    1 Polish
    1 French

    No drivers at present from North America, the rest of South America and India with none yet from Africa, Middle East, Russia, China, rest of Europe.

    I wonder what kind of factors determine which countries the drivers come from. I imagine it's an advantage coming from a country where there is an established hierarchy of lower formulae which 'feed' drivers into F1, drivers from some countries may find it easier to attract their own individual sponsors who will indirectly bring money into the poorer teams, the geographical location of the F1 teams etc etc....

    Would you like to see F1 open up with more drivers from different countries or are you happy the way things are?

    Apr 4, 2008 2:18:25 PM

    easy_rider911
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    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    I'd love to see some of the older drivers (e.g. Coulthard, Barrichello, Fisichella) who are unlikely to set the world on fire in their twilight days making way for some new blood.

    I know these 3 guys are very experienced so they can help develop cars but couldn't they be retained for testing and development purposes thereby letting some new talent come through?

    Apr 4, 2008 2:32:47 PM

    easy_rider911
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    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    So what do the rules say? If Lewis totals his car in Friday Practice 2, he gets a new car with no grid penalty. I think so.

    I assume this is because they run a different engine and gearbox in the cars for Friday Practice 1 and 2 (which they can do unlimited mileage with) without the engine and gearbox used in the race. And then on Saturday, they put the race engine (which has to last 2 races) and the race gearbox (that has to last 4 races) back into the car. Otherwise they can make as many changes to the chassis as they want on Friday. I think after qualification, that's when the cars enter Parc Ferme conditions and the only changes that can be done are refueling, tyre changes, tyre pressures, other fluids, adjusting downforce on front wings without Parc Ferme being breached. Anything else and it's a grid penalty.

    Apr 5, 2008 4:37:55 AM

    Leawood911
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    Leawood911
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    No penalty for crashing in practice. It's the best time to watch in person since you see all the limits being tested.
    I recall MS spinning a lot in practice trying to find the limit - too bad Lewis wrecked but he was doing the right thing to be pushing like that during practice.
    It will be a great Qualiy session tomorrow - 7 hours!
    Kimi, Massa, Koval, Heid, Kubica, Alonso, Hamilton - my prediction for qualifiying.

    Apr 5, 2008 7:45:44 AM

    MarkdsvM
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    Reply to: Leawood911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Leawood911 said:
    Kimi, Massa, Koval, Heid, Kubica, Alonso, Hamilton - my prediction for qualifiying.



    I would put Hamilton on poll as well!

    Apr 5, 2008 10:47:31 AM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: MarkdsvM

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    My prediction for the grid: Kimi, Massa, Kova, Kubi, Heid, Hamilton, Rosberg, Coult, Webber...

    Apr 5, 2008 11:24:08 AM

    WAY
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    WAY
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Wow, you guys are really brave to put Hamilton so far down the grid! My prediction is Kimi, Massa, Hamilton, Kova,Kubica, Heidfeld...

    Apr 5, 2008 12:17:13 PM

    Leawood911
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    Leawood911
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    Reply to: WAY

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    KUBICA = the Pole on Poll! Alonso looks to be running a LOT of fuel!

    Apr 5, 2008 12:37:38 PM

    easy_rider911
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    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: Leawood911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Well, my predictions all went out of the window! Kubica did a superb job but I suspect he is lower on fuel. I think Massa and Hamilton were both going all out for pole position but were just outdriven. But Hamilton looked like he was struggling in the high speed corners for grip making him run wide and look a tiny bit ragged. Kimi seems not to care about pole. I expect him to come through tomorrow after the 1st round of pit stops. Heidfeld is a mystery: heavier on fuel or not quite on the button or both? Hard to say. Alonso looks grumpy. He is invisible in a slower car and he doesn't like it. Button showing that Honda are finally raising their game...could be an interesting race until the 2nd pit stops. Should be a Ferrari procession after that

    Apr 5, 2008 1:09:23 PM

    JoeRockhead
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Wow! Here's a bit of a shocker... a poll from f1.com:

    -------------------

    Which team do you think will win Sunday's Bahrain Grand Prix?

    * BMW Sauber
    * Ferrari
    * McLaren

    BMW Sauber 58.69%
    Ferrari 35.39%
    McLaren 5.91%

    --------------------------------

    I really doubt Kubica will be able to hold on to the lead. But McLaren only has 6% of the vote? What happened to the confidence of their fans?

    Apr 5, 2008 1:44:16 PM

    Spyderidol
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    Spyderidol
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    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Alonso left!

    Apr 5, 2008 9:52:32 PM

    denn
    Senior
    denn
    Loc: Finland , Finland
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    It's interesting how there are drivers with the following nationalities on the F1 grid:

    5 Germans
    4 British
    3 Brazilians
    2 Italians
    2 Finnish
    2 Japanese
    1 Spanish
    1 Australian
    1 Polish
    1 French

    No drivers at present from North America, the rest of South America and India with none yet from Africa, Middle East, Russia, China, rest of Europe.

    I wonder what kind of factors determine which countries the drivers come from. I imagine it's an advantage coming from a country where there is an established hierarchy of lower formulae which 'feed' drivers into F1, drivers from some countries may find it easier to attract their own individual sponsors who will indirectly bring money into the poorer teams, the geographical location of the F1 teams etc etc....

    Would you like to see F1 open up with more drivers from different countries or are you happy the way things are?



    I believe Niko Rosberg has a dual citizenship (DE/FI) but races with a German license. Probably due to better sponsorship opportunities.

    Finns are doing pretty well in motorsports considering our population of only 5 million!

    Apr 5, 2008 11:04:21 PM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    No drivers at present from North America, the rest of South America and India with none yet from Africa, Middle East, Russia, China, rest of Europe.

    I wonder what kind of factors determine which countries the drivers come from. I imagine it's an advantage coming from a country where there is an established hierarchy of lower formulae which 'feed' drivers into F1, drivers from some countries may find it easier to attract their own individual sponsors who will indirectly bring money into the poorer teams, the geographical location of the F1 teams etc etc....

    Would you like to see F1 open up with more drivers from different countries or are you happy the way things are?



    Interesting point brought up

    Like you said, the lack of feeder sports are the one of the main reasons why there is a slight lack of diversity in F1. The other problem is money. There are probably thousands of other people out there who would have been just as good as Hamilton, Alonso or Schumi but were never had opportunity to race due to lack of funding. Just look at all the F1 fan here on rennteam, the closest thing to an F1 car most of us have been in, is a gokart even that is expensive as hell. Driving a gokart for 2 hours is more expensive than what it cost to rent a Mazda MX5 for an entire day.

    Karting and Formula sports are highly expensive and either your parents spread their wallets wide open or get lucky with sponsors. Some drivers like Rosberg, Piquet and Bruno are competing in motor sports only because their fathers or uncles were great drivers.

    I wish that power brokers like Bernie, Webbi or Briatore would open up feeder programs in more countries to further open up Formula racing to the masses.

    Apr 6, 2008 2:07:39 AM

    WAY
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    WAY
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    I agree easy_rider. It's definitely an advantage if you come from a country with established lower formulae, or indeed even encourage motor sport. Asia (Japan aside) for example, have hardly any motorsport activity compared to Europe. It's far less likely to see an F1 driver coming out of there. The other thing is that success breeds success. Looks at Australia for example. Why do we have so many more good riders in the past 20 years than driver? We have multiple world champions in World Superbike, 500cc, MotoGP, American superbike etc etc. I would say this comes down to the fact that Wayne Gardner's success spurred the young ones out there to be interested, then it was Doohan, and now Casey Stoner. Having said that, a trip to Finland a few years ago made me understand why they have so many rally and F1 champions despite it's small population. As I was in the taxi from my hotel to a business dinner in the middle of freezing winter, my taxi driver had to do a couple of incredible "saves" as he drove along to get me to my meeting. Driving in this country in winter sure teaches you car control! 99% of people from other countries would never know how to control the car the way he did!

    Apr 6, 2008 2:01:58 PM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: WAY

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Okay guys, this is it, the last day of the honey moon. Now all the teams have had the chance to properly put their new cars to the test, they know where they are on the hierarchy and the drivers are used to the absence of traction control.

    A few points of my observations:

    -Like we have seen in Malysia and Bahrain the F2008 is blistering fast leaving everyone in the dust. Ferrari has got a superb car and might be untouchable unless Mclaren fix their reliability.

    -To be honest I was a bit disappointed with BMW's performance. I expected Kubica so keep Kimi and Massa behind him for at least 5-10 laps. As it looks now BMW won't win the driver's championship or be THE team to beat. But their consistency and capability will allow they to disturb and steal vital point from Mclaren and Ferrari when ever either of the two top teams have one of their usual bad weekends.

    -Alonso has a notorious history for foul play and I would love to see his data from the incident with Hamilton. It wouldn't surprise me if the collision was a fabrication of Alonso. Either way that happens when you do a terrible start. Hamilton can't allow himself to drop several point right into the mix. It's very easy to get into trouble with a Red Bull, Honda or Toyota. He did a far worse start compared with the one he did in Malysia.

    Apr 6, 2008 3:23:09 PM

    Turbo4ever
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Great job! Ferrari! 1st and 2nd!

    Apr 6, 2008 3:55:11 PM

    WAY
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    Reply to: Turbo4ever

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    I reckon Alonso played dirty on Hamilton. I cannot see any reason why he would be so much slower than Hamilton there. Well done Massa. He definitely deserved it this time!

    Apr 6, 2008 4:36:08 PM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: WAY

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    WAY said:
    I reckon Alonso played dirty on Hamilton. I cannot see any reason why he would be so much slower than Hamilton there. Well done Massa. He definitely deserved it this time!



    A few years ago Alonso played the same trick on Shumi and David Coulthard, so I won't be surprised if Mclaren file a complaint to the stewards.

    Apr 6, 2008 5:04:44 PM

    gangajas
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    gangajas
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    luwalira said:
    Quote:
    WAY said:
    I reckon Alonso played dirty on Hamilton. I cannot see any reason why he would be so much slower than Hamilton there. Well done Massa. He definitely deserved it this time!



    A few years ago Alonso played the same trick on Shumi and David Coulthard, so I won't be surprised if Mclaren file a complaint to the stewards.



    That would be utterly ridiculous. I hope this article stops all this nonsense:

    Quote:

    Autosport.com has seen the telemetry data of Alonso's exit from the first corner, and it shows that the Spaniard was flat on the throttle from the exit, did not touch the brake and gained speed in a totally predictable manner.




    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66448

    Apr 6, 2008 5:39:24 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    luwalira said: There are probably thousands of other people out there who would have been just as good as Hamilton, Alonso or Schumi but were never had opportunity to race due to lack of funding.


    I understand your point, but I think you're stretching the truth here a bit (hopefully just for emphasis)

    Apr 6, 2008 5:58:36 PM

    Emperor
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    Re: Bahrain F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    luwalira said: There are probably thousands of other people out there who would have been just as good as Hamilton, Alonso or Schumi but were never had opportunity to race due to lack of funding.


    I understand your point, but I think you're stretching the truth here a bit (hopefully just for emphasis)



    Ok, like proved I might have been a tad to judgmental.
     
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