Crown

Board: Porsche Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    50-60% of total sales irrelevant?





    Nick, in terms of sold cars US + Canada contributed 36% last FY (06/07) - in terms of revenue it will be more like 25-30%, in terms of EBIT maybe 10-15% (hedges are not for free). North America still is a very important market (without the cars sold there they'd have a hard time to cover overhead expenses etc.), but it is a fact that the importance of the NA market for Porsche is decreasing since a couple of years.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    At first, I was also a bit surprised when reading TEE1's post. However, after thinking it through I thought he is maybe not too far off regarding Porsche... Comparing the US$ prices vs. the German Porsche prices in Euro I would expect that Porsche earns 5-10 times the US margin (at least) with every corresponding German model sold. (This assumes an average 35% discount of US$ price vs. EUR price and a contribution margin - not EBIT etc. - of 40%.)

    Thus, the US market might contribute only 5% (or lower) to Porsche's total gross margin...

    However, I have to disagree with TEE1 on his Ferrari evaluation: Ferrari has continuously increased US$ prices, compensating them (to a high degree) for EUR/US$ exchange rate developments. Assuming Ferrari will stick to this strategy the US market should be of similar attractiveness to Ferrari as the European markets



    You are forgetting about Porsche FX hedge... They made huge money on that for the last few years. Somehow you need to add this gain to the margins of US cars.



    The thing is: if they want to hedge now it will not change the constellation described in my above post... Basically, it might be just a question of time until their old hedges are consummated and actual margins reflect current exchange rates...

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    50-60% of total sales irrelevant?





    Nick, in terms of sold cars US + Canada contributed 36% last FY (06/07) - in terms of revenue it will be more like 25-30%, in terms of EBIT maybe 10-15% (hedges are not for free). North America still is a very important market (without the cars sold there they'd have a hard time to cover overhead expenses etc.), but it is a fact that the importance of the NA market for Porsche is decreasing since a couple of years.



    I was not aware Porsche sold only a 1/3 of their entire car production in North America. In the early 2000, I was told they were selling over 50% and I assumed that it had not changed.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    For FY 06/07 (in units):
    North America (US+CAN): 35,398
    Germany: 14,046
    UK: 9,104
    Italy: 5,458
    Middle East: 5,330
    Japan: 3,902
    China: 3,105
    East / South Europe: 3,002
    France: 2,650
    Spain/Portugal: 2,603
    Russia: 1,900
    Switzerland: 1,842

    Other Countries: 10,362

    Total Sales: 98,702

    Top 5 markets: 70.2%
    Top 10 markets: 85.7%

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Thanks for the figures EricAlain

    That's very intersting that the European market in total buys more units than the North American market and each unit in Europe sells for more money.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    You're right. I didn't include "small" European markets like:

    Austria: 871 units
    Belgium: 1,143 units
    Netherlands: 1,167 units
    Northern Europe: 1,660 units

    Generally speaking the mix is slightly richer in Europe than in the US. The richest mix is clearly in emerging markets where buyers are going for fully loaded high-end models ....

    Last year (FY 06/07), "Old" Europe (according to Rumsfeld) ie Western Europe, absorbed 40,544 units vs 35,398 for the North America.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Again, you need to look at profit. Sure the US market adds scale which helps with the cost coverage but they will remove every car they sell in other countries for much better profit.

    At the end "we" are the fools for paying such high prices ;-)

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I was not aware Porsche sold only a 1/3 of their entire car production in North America. In the early 2000, I was told they were selling over 50% and I assumed that it had not changed.



    FWIW, Porsche AG did 39.8% of its turnover in North America in fiscal year 1999/2000, so you have been deluding yourself about your own significance for a long time Nick.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I was not aware Porsche sold only a 1/3 of their entire car production in North America. In the early 2000, I was told they were selling over 50% and I assumed that it had not changed.



    FWIW, Porsche AG did 39.8% of its turnover in North America in fiscal year 1999/2000, so you have been deluding yourself about your own significance for a long time Nick.



    Since Porsche refuses to share public information unless its done on its own terms, I am not sure what to believe. The bottom line is the less Porsche's in the US the better for the owners. Today, they are so ubiquitous it is almost impossible to step off a curb without be hit by one.

    Europeans can continue to be raped while we enjoy the subsidy.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    I think the highest share that the US market achieved was 44% of total Porsche unit sales, but that was many moons ago (928 era)

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Since Porsche refuses to share public information unless its done on its own terms, I am not sure what to believe.



    You must be kidding - it's a stock listed company and you can download their Annual Report from their website
    A US F-car customer laughing about European P-customers getting raped is pure comedy

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I was not aware Porsche sold only a 1/3 of their entire car production in North America. In the early 2000, I was told they were selling over 50% and I assumed that it had not changed.



    FWIW, Porsche AG did 39.8% of its turnover in North America in fiscal year 1999/2000, so you have been deluding yourself about your own significance for a long time Nick.



    Since Porsche refuses to share public information unless its done on its own terms, I am not sure what to believe. The bottom line is the less Porsche's in the US the better for the owners. Today, they are so ubiquitous it is almost impossible to step off a curb without be hit by one.

    Europeans can continue to be raped while we enjoy the subsidy.



    Nick, your spelling leaves a lot to be desired. "Rapid" is written with an "i", not an "e"!

    I got PAG turnover figures from the company's annual report published for FY 1999/2000, which will have been checked by auditors, so it's no secret and you can believe it.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Since Porsche refuses to share public information unless its done on its own terms, I am not sure what to believe.



    You must be kidding - it's a stock listed company and you can download their Annual Report from their website
    A US F-car customer laughing about European P-customers getting raped is pure comedy



    Porsche refused to be listed on US Exchanges because our public disclosure rules are much more stringent. I am not saying what Porsche is claiming in its European disclosure is wrong but I would be wary.

    As far as Ferrai customers being raped, I can only smile. I have driven my 430 for over two years and have 12000 miles on it. Yet, I can sell it for more than what I paid for it. I will bend over everytime for that deal

    Contrast that with Porsche. People who buy Porsche's in European are paying about a 30% premium over US buyers and once they drive it off the showroom floor the value drops like a rock. I cannot imagine a more striking rape of the customer.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    Spyderidol said:
    I think the highest share that the US market achieved was 44% of total Porsche unit sales, but that was many moons ago (928 era)



    Which were also the days of the 4-cylinder (924, 944, 968) models.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Porsche refused to be listed on US Exchanges because our public disclosure rules are much more stringent. I am not saying what Porsche is claiming in its European disclosure is wrong but I would be wary.





    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Like the stringent accounting disclosures made by Enron and Worldcom/MCI? Or the highly accurate statements made to US investors by BP regarding its oil exploration data?

    nberry, in the EU, there are very stringent disclosure requirements contained in the Prospectus Directive, the Market Abuse Directive, the Markets in Financial Instruments Directive (MiFID), the Transparency Directive and various other EU Directives that apply across Europe. The US isn't the only country burdened with very tough and strict financial regulation.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March


    Over the past 18 years:

    MAX sales in North America: FY 99/00, 47.8% of total sales.

    MIN sales in North America: FY 91/92, 20.3%

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Like the stringent accounting disclosures made by Enron and Worldcom/MCI?



    I was thinking the same, Easy If anything, PAG will try to hide some profit for tax reasons, they certainly have no reason to manipulate the per country sales break-down

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Like the stringent accounting disclosures made by Enron and Worldcom/MCI? Or the highly accurate statements made to US investors by BP regarding its oil exploration data?

    nberry, in the EU, there are very stringent disclosure requirements contained in the Prospectus Directive, the Market Abuse Directive, the Markets in Financial Instruments Directive (MiFID), the Transparency Directive and various other EU Directives that apply across Europe. The US isn't the only country burdened with very tough and strict financial regulation.



    All were caught and taken down. I am aware that Europe has financial disclosure laws but because of the diversity of political interest and countries, it is extremely difficult to be comprehensive. Porsche did not want ANY part of our disclosure requirements and for good reason.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsche refused to be listed on US Exchanges because our public disclosure rules are much more stringent. I am not saying what Porsche is claiming in its European disclosure is wrong but I would be wary.

    As far as Ferrai customers being raped, I can only smile. I have driven my 430 for over two years and have 12000 miles on it. Yet, I can sell it for more than what I paid for it. I will bend over everytime for that deal

    Contrast that with Porsche. People who buy Porsche's in European are paying about a 30% premium over US buyers and once they drive it off the showroom floor the value drops like a rock. I cannot imagine a more striking rape of the customer.



    Porsche refuses to deliver quarterly financials, thus is not listed in the US...

    Nick, your depreciation with F is just a rigged game that is ending very soon, an anomaly... Most people have to pay a premium resulting in depreciation equivalent to other car manufacturers. The rest of the world is not getting raped, instead it is just that there are a very very few lucky US buyers. Let me put it another way, if every US costumers could get on the game, there would be 25 Ferraris in my office parking lot... Right now there are only two... Regular Ferrari US costumers are getting raped because they cannot order a new Ferrari at MSRP.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsche refused to be listed on US Exchanges because our public disclosure rules are much more stringent. I am not saying what Porsche is claiming in its European disclosure is wrong but I would be wary.



    The "stringent public disclosure" rule which Porsche could not stomach was that requiring the wasting of enormous internal administrative capacity to report figures on a quarterly basis to satisfy the short-term carpet-bagger speculators pandered to by the US rules. The auto business has a cycle tied to model years anyway, so quarterly figures within a model-year are not a good basis for assessment of a company's health.

    The company does now produce a half-yearly report for stockholders. FWIW, the latest one to 31.01.2008 shows turnover for six preceding months to be up by almost 14% against the same period in the previous year, so 24% fall in sales in March in USA does not appear to represent the general worldwide trend.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    BTW it is a family owned business with 100% control. they really dont care about the SEC and why should they. The prefs are fact of the past when they needed the capital. now they dont anymore. Hence what do you info for if you cant excert any control...

    Plus did not see the US disclosure saving bear from going belly up....

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    It just shows, once again, that Nick is not at all interested in a fruitful discussion. I truly hope there is anybody in his real life enjoying your attitude, buddy!

    Ferrari's US resale values are not only an anomaly but are only part of Nick's "profitable" experience. Most people don't have such an intimate relationship with their dealers.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Nick's "profitable" experience



    Well, I guess years ago Nick also had to pay an "entry fee" to join the club. Those who claim that F-cars don't depreciate in the US always refer to MRSP, not to the real cost (including the dealer premium above MRSP). It's just the opposite of buying a VW Golf in Germany with a 20% discount, selling the car after one year for 60% of the MRSP and whining about a 40% loss

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Nick claimed here before he didn't have to buy is way in... I know of someone who is buying their way in right now, I think this is stupid...

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Why are US buyers lucky with P-car prices? You can bet your bottom dollar/euro/pound/yen that if PAG raises their prices in the US their sales will plummet. P-cars are at the high end of what the buyer will bear - there are other choices, ya know?

    P.S. - Given the dismal 911 resale market in the US... soon to become worse with the introduction of the 997 facelift, I seriously doubt P-car prices can justify more than incremental increases. I'm sure others here will differ, but let's see who's right.

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:
    For FY 06/07 (in units):
    North America (US+CAN): 35,398
    Germany: 14,046
    UK: 9,104
    Italy: 5,458
    Middle East: 5,330
    Japan: 3,902
    China: 3,105
    East / South Europe: 3,002
    France: 2,650
    Spain/Portugal: 2,603
    Russia: 1,900
    Switzerland: 1,842

    Other Countries: 10,362

    Total Sales: 98,702

    Top 5 markets: 70.2%
    Top 10 markets: 85.7%



    Amazing, Italy 5500 cars!
    Italy is behind France and Spain in rent per capita yet the italians buy more Porsches than France and Spain combined! ... now that is passion

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsche refused to be listed on US Exchanges because our public disclosure rules are much more stringent. I am not saying what Porsche is claiming in its European disclosure is wrong but I would be wary.



    The "stringent public disclosure" rule which Porsche could not stomach was that requiring the wasting of enormous internal administrative capacity to report figures on a quarterly basis to satisfy the short-term carpet-bagger speculators pandered to by the US rules. The auto business has a cycle tied to model years anyway, so quarterly figures within a model-year are not a good basis for assessment of a company's health.

    The company does now produce a half-yearly report for stockholders. FWIW, the latest one to 31.01.2008 shows turnover for six preceding months to be up by almost 14% against the same period in the previous year, so 24% fall in sales in March in USA does not appear to represent the general worldwide trend.



    ouch!! Nick just got onwned

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    Amazing, Italy 5500 cars!
    Italy is behind France and Spain in rent per capita yet the italians buy more Porsches than France and Spain combined! ... now that is passion


    Sorry, that's called underground economy

    Re: Porsche sales down by 24% for March

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsche refused to be listed on US Exchanges because our public disclosure rules are much more stringent. I am not saying what Porsche is claiming in its European disclosure is wrong but I would be wary.



    The "stringent public disclosure" rule which Porsche could not stomach was that requiring the wasting of enormous internal administrative capacity to report figures on a quarterly basis to satisfy the short-term carpet-bagger speculators pandered to by the US rules. The auto business has a cycle tied to model years anyway, so quarterly figures within a model-year are not a good basis for assessment of a company's health.

    The company does now produce a half-yearly report for stockholders. FWIW, the latest one to 31.01.2008 shows turnover for six preceding months to be up by almost 14% against the same period in the previous year, so 24% fall in sales in March in USA does not appear to represent the general worldwide trend.



    ouch!! Nick just got onwned



    Carlos you crack me up. I know you would love to see me had but sorry this isn't one of those times.

    International accounting principles and best practices have found that quarterly reporting is a much better indicator for investors. Remember data input is the key. The longer the period given to a Company the easier it is to message the number. Quarterly reporting requires constant and vigilant inputting. With six month or longer reporting "white noise" enters the system and investors have difficulty knowing what is up.

    The proof is in the example Fritz cited. Using information for the past six months, according to Fritz the trend for Porsche is up but closer to the present, the picture isn't as pretty. Any experienced investor will tell you the time closer to the investment is more important than what has happened six months or a year ago.

    Thus Fritz's dog just does not hunt. Nice try.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/3/24 3:40 PM
    watt
    802498 1803
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    448327 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    265884 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    89891 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    6368 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    885267 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    831802 3868
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug
    398990 1454
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    395348 1526
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    381744 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker
    370620 797
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 5/12/24 6:23 PM
    blueflame
    293252 669
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    265017 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    243742 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel
    238423 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    222074 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    172909 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut
    144787 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    120891 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    111244 685
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    85423 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    75636 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    54689 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 5/13/24 3:18 PM
    Grant
    26124 246
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy
    21609 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie
    20027 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997
    16966 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA
    14190 225
    Motor Sp. 24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018 5/25/23 10:42 PM
    Grant
    11412 55
    Porsche Porsche Mission X Hypercar 12/3/23 8:52 AM
    996FourEss
    11183 63
    123 items found, displaying 1 to 30.