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Apr 3, 2008 12:03:44 PM
- WAY
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Thanks Kreso. You have suspected this for a long time so there you go, proof. For us (potential) buyers, that is great news! I am not that surprise to be honest. The previous R34 used to have 280hp (haha sure) and when my friend got it, I was shocked how quick a 280hp car is and capable for doing 0-100kmh in 4.5s! AWD too with a lot of weight!
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
It basically confirms what I was suspecting a while ago when I took a test drive of the car. I had posted that the GT-R had to be making quite a bit more HP than the 997TT just from the seat of the pants.
Also, simple physics already dictates that a heavier car HAS to make more HP in order to keep up with a lighter car.
Also, simple physics already dictates that a heavier car HAS to make more HP in order to keep up with a lighter car.
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Well much of this depends on the test and equipment used. Here is a comparison between the GT-R and 997TT.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/nissan-gt-r-meets-the-dyno-997-porsche-turbo-and-e92-bmw-m3/2
Whatever the real power, isn't the sole issue performance? Assume for the moment the GT-R has more hp than advertised. So what? It is faster and about 40% less expensive than the TT. Or does that matter?
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/nissan-gt-r-meets-the-dyno-997-porsche-turbo-and-e92-bmw-m3/2
Whatever the real power, isn't the sole issue performance? Assume for the moment the GT-R has more hp than advertised. So what? It is faster and about 40% less expensive than the TT. Or does that matter?
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
As a reference, there are many documented stock Z06's making about 454rwhp (some more, some less). At 505 crank, that gives us 11.25% drive train loss. If we apply the same 11.25% to the Nissan, that gives us about 484 at the crank. Now even for a RWD car 11.25 sounds extremely low, for an AWD car, probably not. So either the Z06 and GTR are making more power than rated, or the percentages we are using to calculate crank HP are completely incorrect. Somthing just doesn't sound right. We know the loss factor is definately higher in a 4WD, but how much is not quite sure. To say it's double is probably not right.
But here is the real quandry...GM for a few years has been using a new third party testing procedure that is becoming the industry standard, along with European manufacturers. I have always heard the opposite of Japanese manufacturers and their testing procedures, that their tests consistently reflected higher than real world figures, which in the past year or so has changed, as they have adopted the same third party testing procedure as GM. There were articles where many Japanese cars had actually reduced HP ratings recently due to the new testing procedure without any mechanical changes.
So as an example if the Z06 motor is rated at 505hp and owners get about 454rwhp as a median, and the tests are being performed under new strict 3rd party procedures, what is going on? Even 435RWHP for the Nissan with a conservative 16% drive train loss, still puts the car at around 505hp.
So are all the motors underrated, or is our calculation method way off base?
Does anyone have a dyno of a 911TT (non-mustang dyno)? I would lke to look at all three and come to some kind of rough conclusion.
But here is the real quandry...GM for a few years has been using a new third party testing procedure that is becoming the industry standard, along with European manufacturers. I have always heard the opposite of Japanese manufacturers and their testing procedures, that their tests consistently reflected higher than real world figures, which in the past year or so has changed, as they have adopted the same third party testing procedure as GM. There were articles where many Japanese cars had actually reduced HP ratings recently due to the new testing procedure without any mechanical changes.
So as an example if the Z06 motor is rated at 505hp and owners get about 454rwhp as a median, and the tests are being performed under new strict 3rd party procedures, what is going on? Even 435RWHP for the Nissan with a conservative 16% drive train loss, still puts the car at around 505hp.
So are all the motors underrated, or is our calculation method way off base?
Does anyone have a dyno of a 911TT (non-mustang dyno)? I would lke to look at all three and come to some kind of rough conclusion.
Apr 3, 2008 4:00:31 PM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
nberry said:
Assume for the moment the GT-R has more hp than advertised. So what?
They can stuff as many horses under the bonnet as they like and beat the TT with it - that's not the problem. But then they should mention the correct hp number. Performance oriented comparos are useless if they fool the audience regarding the underlying parameters (HP, weight, tires etc.)
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
SciFrog said:
Educated guess is this car was making 530/540hp... The real question is will production cars after several thousand miles will still do the same HP.
Also: In certain key markets (like Germany) an actual hp outut of 530hp in combination with an "official" 480hp figure would be illegal. Thus, will the European cars (whenever they will be sold in 2009...) be as powerful as early press cars tested in the international press...
Apr 3, 2008 4:17:21 PM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
95jersey said:
So are all the motors underrated, or is our calculation method way off base?
Does anyone have a dyno of a 911TT (non-mustang dyno)? I would lke to look at all three and come to some kind of rough conclusion.
How about 3% drivetrain loss for a 997 TT cab ? - LoL
http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=785
Apr 3, 2008 4:46:11 PM
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SciFrog
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
GT-R is AWD so 10% drivetrain loss is impossible.
The question about more power for the first few hundred miles was raised. Basically the car would produced more HP at the dealer and for reviewers, but after some time, ECU reverts to a more normal 480hp program, easy to do with turbo cars).
This would mean performance would not be always there (a little conspiracy theory, but why not?).
Anyway as mentionned before, if the car is rated 480hp and has 540hp, it is not right (the same way if it had only 430hp).
The question about more power for the first few hundred miles was raised. Basically the car would produced more HP at the dealer and for reviewers, but after some time, ECU reverts to a more normal 480hp program, easy to do with turbo cars).
This would mean performance would not be always there (a little conspiracy theory, but why not?).
Anyway as mentionned before, if the car is rated 480hp and has 540hp, it is not right (the same way if it had only 430hp).
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
SciFrog said:
Educated guess is this car was making 530/540hp... The real question is will production cars after several thousand miles will still do the same HP.
Also: In certain key markets (like Germany) an actual hp outut of 530hp in combination with an "official" 480hp figure would be illegal. Thus, will the European cars (whenever they will be sold in 2009...) be as powerful as early press cars tested in the international press...
So, we have some info. When I told everyone here that GT-R is producing at least 520hp all GT-R fans said:"NOT true! Car is that fast because of efficient AWD and DSG.."
I fully agree with Markus, for EU GT-R is illegal car. Nissan will either downpower the car for EU or we will have new power rating(few years ago same story by AMG with SL55. First 476hp, then after few dynos AMG corrected power output to 500hp)...
NOW, regarding 997 Turbo-IMHO we need to look at numbers that varoius KITs are producing(RUF for example) since when Nissan introduce GT-R is Europe it will have for German market 520ps-belive me!
Apr 3, 2008 5:38:27 PM
- ADias
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- Reply to: Porsche-Jeck
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
They can stuff as many horses under the bonnet as they like and beat the TT with it - that's not the problem. But then they should mention the correct hp number. Performance oriented comparos are useless if they fool the audience regarding the underlying parameters (HP, weight, tires etc.)
I much prefer a manufacturer who underrates its product and delivers more when a new car is launched, than a manufacturer (PAG) who barely offers incremental updates every new car launch.
Apr 3, 2008 5:43:44 PM
- JoeRockhead
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
The times the GT-R was pulling made the 480 HP claims impossible. Most of us suspected this.
If Nissan came out and said we have a 570HP car that beats the TT, people would have been less interested I suspect.
Now if only they would peel away that ugly body work and reveal the true, good-looking car underneath!
If Nissan came out and said we have a 570HP car that beats the TT, people would have been less interested I suspect.
Now if only they would peel away that ugly body work and reveal the true, good-looking car underneath!
Apr 3, 2008 5:51:16 PM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Here's another example - have a look at the pics with the dyno results; seems to be a private car tested in the UK.
http://s65.photobucket.com/albums/h224/gtculture/?start=20
http://s65.photobucket.com/albums/h224/gtculture/?start=20
Apr 3, 2008 5:54:40 PM
- KresoF1
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
Here's another example - have a look at the pics with the dyno results; seems to be a private car tested in the UK.
http://s65.photobucket.com/albums/h224/gtculture/?start=20
Thanks. So, as I said for EU(and Germany) 520ps...
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
SciFrog said:
So again, FL 997TT hopefully 510+hp with PDK and a sorted PTM, thus would put the GT-R back where it belongs, the rearview mirror
Maybe, but test reports suggest the GT-R is much more aggressively sprung than the 997TT - after all the TT has been positioned as the fast-luxurious-GT, not a track god. So even with more power (and still with less weight than GT-R) the question is can Porsche maintain the GT-style ride/handling balance that people love about the TT while beating a GT-R on N-ring... I'm not sure.
What I suggested in another thread was that Porsche produce a GT-4... a GT-3 with AWD and proper PTM for performance use... that should keep the fans happy
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
nberry said:
[...]Assume for the moment the GT-R has more hp than advertised. So what? It is faster and about 40% less expensive than the TT. Or does that matter?
I agree. When a p-car delivers more power than advertised, people start bragging about Porsche delivering 'real HPs' and more stuff for the money, and everything's cool and everybody's proud of mommy Porsche. So why couldn't Nissan play the same game?...
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
So according to that dyno graph, the tuner is saying the car has approx 14% drivetrain loss. Markus and Kreso may be onto something here...isn't the Z06 rated at 510hp for Europe vs. 505 in the US? I was sure I saw a different power rating for European destined Z06's somewhere.
BTW, that dyno graph of the 911TT producing 464whp with a 480 crank is crazy. I guess there are anomalies out of every factory. My Z was put down 493whp with just a tune, while other Z owners were putting down the same powerm but required exhaust mods.
BTW, that dyno graph of the 911TT producing 464whp with a 480 crank is crazy. I guess there are anomalies out of every factory. My Z was put down 493whp with just a tune, while other Z owners were putting down the same powerm but required exhaust mods.
Apr 4, 2008 1:17:59 AM
- JoeRockhead
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
nberry said:
Well much of this depends on the test and equipment used. Here is a comparison between the GT-R and 997TT.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/nissan-gt-r-meets-the-dyno-997-porsche-turbo-and-e92-bmw-m3/2
Whatever the real power, isn't the sole issue performance? Assume for the moment the GT-R has more hp than advertised. So what? It is faster and about 40% less expensive than the TT. Or does that matter?
The GT-R is nipping at the heels of the 430 too. And it's what, 30% the cost? By that logic, you should be absolutely furious at Ferrari.
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
95jersey said:
So according to that dyno graph, the tuner is saying the car has approx 14% drivetrain loss. Markus and Kreso may be onto something here...isn't the Z06 rated at 510hp for Europe vs. 505 in the US? I was sure I saw a different power rating for European destined Z06's somewhere.
512hp DIN, 505hp SAE
Geoff
Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
pierre said:Quote:
nberry said:
[...]Assume for the moment the GT-R has more hp than advertised. So what? It is faster and about 40% less expensive than the TT. Or does that matter?
I agree. When a p-car delivers more power than advertised, people start bragging about Porsche delivering 'real HPs' and more stuff for the money, and everything's cool and everybody's proud of mommy Porsche. So why couldn't Nissan play the same game?...
As a reminder as it has been highlighted many times: it is acording to the law at least in EU perfectly allright to feature a greater HP number as the one officially quoted as long as it stays within a given relatively narrow tolerance (don't have the exact value at hand).
It is what among others PAG does, if I am correct they make sure to be in the plus part of the tolerance i.e. the engine delivers at least the quoted HP-figure.
When one is out of tolerance, breaches the law. It is what AMG did in the past upon launch of the SL 55 AMG, and it seems it is what will happen with Nissan if the current offical HP-figure/engine configuration remains by the time they launch the GT-R.
Apr 4, 2008 11:40:14 AM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
If I recall correctly the tolerance is 5% - it's not so much the HP figure the authorities are interested in, it's the topspeed (Autobahn driving). If they assume the car is safe as a claimed topspeed of 300 km/h (as an example), 330 km/h (+10%) may be over the top for the specific model. The stress for suspension/brakes etc. at these crazy speeds isn't increasing linear....
Apr 4, 2008 12:16:04 PM
- thuggy
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
JoeRockhead said:Quote:
nberry said:
Well much of this depends on the test and equipment used. Here is a comparison between the GT-R and 997TT.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/nissan-gt-r-meets-the-dyno-997-porsche-turbo-and-e92-bmw-m3/2
Whatever the real power, isn't the sole issue performance? Assume for the moment the GT-R has more hp than advertised. So what? It is faster and about 40% less expensive than the TT. Or does that matter?
The GT-R is nipping at the heels of the 430 too. And it's what, 30% the cost? By that logic, you should be absolutely furious at Ferrari.
Nipping at the heels? Destroys it performance wise actually. But no one will argue that the GT-R comes even close to the emotion a Ferrari can evoke.
Apr 4, 2008 3:42:23 PM
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nberry
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Re: Nissan GT-R dyno test...
Quote:
JoeRockhead said:Quote:
nberry said:
Well much of this depends on the test and equipment used. Here is a comparison between the GT-R and 997TT.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/nissan-gt-r-meets-the-dyno-997-porsche-turbo-and-e92-bmw-m3/2
Whatever the real power, isn't the sole issue performance? Assume for the moment the GT-R has more hp than advertised. So what? It is faster and about 40% less expensive than the TT. Or does that matter?
The GT-R is nipping at the heels of the 430 too. And it's what, 30% the cost? By that logic, you should be absolutely furious at Ferrari.
Make no mistake, I love what Nissan has done. It has skunked all the "high performance car manufacturers" and put them in their place. Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche can eat crow and I am happy for it. You do not have to spent a ton of money for unsurpassed performance AND NOW THEY KNOW WE KNOW
Apr 4, 2008 3:53:51 PM
- easy_rider911
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