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Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Well TB993tt there is certainly a difference between rolling dynos and road conditions but this is why I said "a tuner that knows what they are doing". Supposedly for the intake temperature they use huge fans to simulate as much as possible road conditions. As far as the load difference is concerned when driving a car vs the rolling dyno, that is I guess a problem that (at least the guys I ve used) try to solve with further fine tuning on the road. Ie its true that when you get say 1.2bar pressure on the dyno run you might get up to 1.35bar on the road because of the extra load. So once they figure out the optimum boost on dyno, they adjust on the road for the difference.
Regarding EGTs there can also be a difference since road conditions are certainly different to the 8 second run on the dyno. Again if the tuner knows what he is doing, he will have tested on the road (or a high speed track like nardo for example) to see whether sustained high speed runs create heat issues. Now I ve had problems with that EGT issue (as I had PMed u about in the past) but that was because I had NOT listened to the recomendation of my tuner and insisted in using stock exhaust instead of an aftermkt. As a result my car on dyno shows 600hp while on the road after 2-3 runs EGTs would raise and as a result car made 550-560hp tops. Well I had been warned and when I finally did what I was told in the beginning everything went back to normal.
Bottomline, a lot of things can indeed go wrong if people don't know what they are doing.
Regarding the added benefits, car indeed had better dyno chart results after customs, but most omportantly it also felt better every single time and was better in the stopwatch.
In any case this is just my opinion based on numerous experiences (and mistakes).
Regarding EGTs there can also be a difference since road conditions are certainly different to the 8 second run on the dyno. Again if the tuner knows what he is doing, he will have tested on the road (or a high speed track like nardo for example) to see whether sustained high speed runs create heat issues. Now I ve had problems with that EGT issue (as I had PMed u about in the past) but that was because I had NOT listened to the recomendation of my tuner and insisted in using stock exhaust instead of an aftermkt. As a result my car on dyno shows 600hp while on the road after 2-3 runs EGTs would raise and as a result car made 550-560hp tops. Well I had been warned and when I finally did what I was told in the beginning everything went back to normal.
Bottomline, a lot of things can indeed go wrong if people don't know what they are doing.
Regarding the added benefits, car indeed had better dyno chart results after customs, but most omportantly it also felt better every single time and was better in the stopwatch.
In any case this is just my opinion based on numerous experiences (and mistakes).
Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
GT, everyone thinks that their tuner "knows what he is doing" at least until somewhere down the line they get to know better 
!
I apologise, I was lumping you in with all the other "rolling road magicians", I had forgotten that you had a Sportec conversion.
Sportec are fairly unique in the way they do indeed seem to be able to use a combination of good airflow on a sub optimal (in loading terms) chassis dyno (is it Bosch FLA ?) then a large dose of real world turbo tuning knowledge to be able to make packages which do work on the road. That is very interesting what you say about adjusting the boost on the road to allow for lack of dyno loading...
As you say your acceleration numbers (0-300 in ~24s was it ?) tell the story....
The only thing to be aware with Sportec is that the numbers they get (paricularly torque) are usually on the high side - I know of cars measured by their machine have subsequently registered 10% less on Manthey's Maha - but the actual size of the dyno numbers should not matter if the road performance is there.
!
I apologise, I was lumping you in with all the other "rolling road magicians", I had forgotten that you had a Sportec conversion.
Sportec are fairly unique in the way they do indeed seem to be able to use a combination of good airflow on a sub optimal (in loading terms) chassis dyno (is it Bosch FLA ?) then a large dose of real world turbo tuning knowledge to be able to make packages which do work on the road. That is very interesting what you say about adjusting the boost on the road to allow for lack of dyno loading...
As you say your acceleration numbers (0-300 in ~24s was it ?) tell the story....
The only thing to be aware with Sportec is that the numbers they get (paricularly torque) are usually on the high side - I know of cars measured by their machine have subsequently registered 10% less on Manthey's Maha - but the actual size of the dyno numbers should not matter if the road performance is there.
Mar 19, 2008 4:49:23 PM
- Over the Hill
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Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Quote:
STRADALE said:Quote:
Crash said:
Looking good! Perhaps lowering it 1/2 to 1 inch would look even better
It would but it's just not a option for where I live/drive & how much I will use the car.
The Bilstein Damptronics coil overs will dramatically improve the ride. You could also lower it just a skosh without having to worry much about clearance issues.
As for ECU reflashing, I found in the fine print that because I can only get 92 octane gas where I live that I would only realize a 40 HP increase in power. Yes, the reflash would allow returning the ECU mapping to a stock setting and be transparent to dealer diagnostics. The fly in the ointment is if there is a major warranty claim the ECU would be sent back to Porsche NA, and there they would be able to determine that it had been modified. ALL BETS OFF!
That nixed for me. I paid for an extended warranty, so adding that cost plus the $3500 for the reflash and the risk/reward just wasn't worth it for me.
Mar 19, 2008 4:56:06 PM
- Over the Hill
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- Loc: Bellevue, Washington, USA
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Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Quote:
STRADALE said:
I know, thats what I heard re: UK OPC's. How about some pics I just came across.
Evil looking car man. BTW if you should ever want to change your wheel lug bolts to black, I would suggest ceramic coating them. It's durable and inexpensive ($60 in Seattle).
Mar 19, 2008 5:41:26 PM
- STRADALE
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Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Quote:
Over the Hill said:Quote:
STRADALE said:
I know, thats what I heard re: UK OPC's. How about some pics I just came across.
Evil looking car man. BTW if you should ever want to change your wheel lug bolts to black, I would suggest ceramic coating them. It's durable and inexpensive ($60 in Seattle).
Thanks.
The wheel bolts are Titanium so I wouldnt consider painting/ceramic coating them. Plus they say "Titanium" & "Porsche" which looks very cool up close.
Mar 19, 2008 5:47:17 PM
- STRADALE
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Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Quote:
Over the Hill said:Quote:
STRADALE said:Quote:
Crash said:
Looking good! Perhaps lowering it 1/2 to 1 inch would look even better
It would but it's just not a option for where I live/drive & how much I will use the car.
The Bilstein Damptronics coil overs will dramatically improve the ride. You could also lower it just a skosh without having to worry much about clearance issues.
As for ECU reflashing, I found in the fine print that because I can only get 92 octane gas where I live that I would only realize a 40 HP increase in power. Yes, the reflash would allow returning the ECU mapping to a stock setting and be transparent to dealer diagnostics. The fly in the ointment is if there is a major warranty claim the ECU would be sent back to Porsche NA, and there they would be able to determine that it had been modified. ALL BETS OFF!
That nixed for me. I paid for an extended warranty, so adding that cost plus the $3500 for the reflash and the risk/reward just wasn't worth it for me.
Lowering just isnt an option, you guys would understand if you drove around w/ me for a while. I already know what it's like to drive a car that is lower in front (my F430) & it can be hairy. The more clearance I have w/ the Turbo the better.
Mar 19, 2008 7:24:38 PM
- TT Surgeon
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Mar 20, 2008 4:35:17 AM
- atomic80
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Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Chris, you really have a problem with accepting other people's opinions don't you? Well, I'm not going to comment further on this matter because I know exactly where it's going to go. 
Gregg, that's the nice thing about those coilovers. You can have them adjusted to stock height and benefit from the improved handling characteristics. If you ever think that your handling needs improvement, then you know what I'd suggest. Damptronics of course.
Gregg, that's the nice thing about those coilovers. You can have them adjusted to stock height and benefit from the improved handling characteristics. If you ever think that your handling needs improvement, then you know what I'd suggest. Damptronics of course.
Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Quote:
atomic80 said:
Chris, you really have a problem with accepting other people's opinions don't you? Well, I'm not going to comment further on this matter because I know exactly where it's going to go.
Gregg, that's the nice thing about those coilovers. You can have them adjusted to stock height and benefit from the improved handling characteristics. If you ever think that your handling needs improvement, then you know what I'd suggest. Damptronics of course.
Thanks, down the road I may need to ask you some questions. I'm not going to consider suspension mods for at least 5 or 10K miles. Besides if Pete Stout is right the Cabrio. is set-up better than the Coupe so it may not be a good idea to mess w/ the suspenion. I'll know more once I get enough miles on her to start pushing hard. Crummy day out today but couldnt help but drive her to work. 1/4 of the way done w/ break-in.
Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Quote:
STRADALE said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
Alex_ said:
GT - I 'would' agree about the customized tuning but I haven't found a tuner who could do so without disconnecting the front wheel drive system first to do the 'wheel' dyno analysis. If there was someone who could do a customized map on an 'engine' dyno then I would be all over it.
Also, do you really want to get 100% power out of your car? Surely this would significantly shorten its life-span.
Lastly, I know there is a big risk in losing your Porsche warranty - but I don't see the difference between doing an ECU upgrade straight away or waiting after the warranty runs out.
Surely either way, if the car's engine is going to blow up after the ECU flash you are going to have to pay for it whenever that is. So I don't see the point in waiting if that is your intention. It's like waiting for the facelift 997, just get one now and start enjoying!!
I myself did decide to wait until I had run in my engine - to check there wasn't any major issues with stock before I did the re-map.
Oh, and I personally would only have gone with Ruf, RS-Tuning or Manthey.
Alex, I think the point he was making was that it would be prudent to wait, so that if there are any factory defects in the drivetrain, the warranty will cover them, as they usually appear early on. You would get majorly screwed if the engine would have blown anyway, but Porsche denied your warranty, based on you reflashing the ECU. Not a problem with you since you've had it for some time, but on a new car, this is significant.
I think I'm coming to my senses. It would be kind of dumb to throw out a drive-train warranty on a $180k car, especially during the first couple of years. I'm going to wait and see what tuners develop, take my time & see what happens with different tuning packages, see if one stands out as being the best/ most reliable & enjoy my car for a while & the piece of mind of a warranty. Maybe when the warranty is closer to expiring by then it will be worth the risk but it would be foolish for me to do an ECU now, it's not like I need the extra power for racing. The exhaust & plenum is as far as I want to go. Thanks for the comments, this is a very interesting thread.
As I was reading this thread I kept say WTF
Thank God you have come around. What you were contemplating at this time wasn't one of your better moments. 
Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
STRADALE said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
Alex_ said:
GT - I 'would' agree about the customized tuning but I haven't found a tuner who could do so without disconnecting the front wheel drive system first to do the 'wheel' dyno analysis. If there was someone who could do a customized map on an 'engine' dyno then I would be all over it.
Also, do you really want to get 100% power out of your car? Surely this would significantly shorten its life-span.
Lastly, I know there is a big risk in losing your Porsche warranty - but I don't see the difference between doing an ECU upgrade straight away or waiting after the warranty runs out.
Surely either way, if the car's engine is going to blow up after the ECU flash you are going to have to pay for it whenever that is. So I don't see the point in waiting if that is your intention. It's like waiting for the facelift 997, just get one now and start enjoying!!
I myself did decide to wait until I had run in my engine - to check there wasn't any major issues with stock before I did the re-map.
Oh, and I personally would only have gone with Ruf, RS-Tuning or Manthey.
Alex, I think the point he was making was that it would be prudent to wait, so that if there are any factory defects in the drivetrain, the warranty will cover them, as they usually appear early on. You would get majorly screwed if the engine would have blown anyway, but Porsche denied your warranty, based on you reflashing the ECU. Not a problem with you since you've had it for some time, but on a new car, this is significant.
I think I'm coming to my senses. It would be kind of dumb to throw out a drive-train warranty on a $180k car, especially during the first couple of years. I'm going to wait and see what tuners develop, take my time & see what happens with different tuning packages, see if one stands out as being the best/ most reliable & enjoy my car for a while & the piece of mind of a warranty. Maybe when the warranty is closer to expiring by then it will be worth the risk but it would be foolish for me to do an ECU now, it's not like I need the extra power for racing. The exhaust & plenum is as far as I want to go. Thanks for the comments, this is a very interesting thread.
As I was reading this thread I kept say WTF
Was it that bad of a brain fart? Guess so eh? Hey check out the view out my office window. If I put this pic on my desktop I wont have to turn around.
Mar 21, 2008 2:00:40 AM
- TT Surgeon
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- Loc: Long Island, NY , United States
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- Reply to: atomic80
Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Quote:
atomic80 said:
Chris, you really have a problem with accepting other people's opinions don't you? Well, I'm not going to comment further on this matter because I know exactly where it's going to go.
Gregg, that's the nice thing about those coilovers. You can have them adjusted to stock height and benefit from the improved handling characteristics. If you ever think that your handling needs improvement, then you know what I'd suggest. Damptronics of course.
Really Jason, you're the one who keeps jabbing at me. I could care less what you do with your car, but if somebody asks something that I have experience with(esp track) and can answer, I will, like it or not. I'm finished.
Gregg, nice car once again, can't believe you got a good deal at Legend, good for you. That was not my experience with them, you must know MS better than me!
Mar 21, 2008 2:45:12 AM
- STRADALE
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Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Quote:
TT Surgeon said:Quote:
atomic80 said:
Chris, you really have a problem with accepting other people's opinions don't you? Well, I'm not going to comment further on this matter because I know exactly where it's going to go.
Gregg, that's the nice thing about those coilovers. You can have them adjusted to stock height and benefit from the improved handling characteristics. If you ever think that your handling needs improvement, then you know what I'd suggest. Damptronics of course.
Really Jason, you're the one who keeps jabbing at me. I could care less what you do with your car, but if somebody asks something that I have experience with(esp track) and can answer, I will, like it or not. I'm finished.
Gregg, nice car once again, can't believe you got a good deal at Legend, good for you. That was not my experience with them, you must know MS better than me!
MS you mean Michael Siegel the owner? Michael is a great guy. This is my 3rd 911 (two of them Turbo's) from Michael in the last 5 years. Doesnt mean I didnt shop around each time just to make sure I was getting the best deal but it's been a pleasure dealing w/ him on all the other stuff too. He even installed my Exhaust & Plenum on this car for no charge. Plus he was very cool about all the changes/additions I made to my order & has really done everything top notch.
btw: Come on Chris. Jason. It's a silly arguement.
Kiss & make up! 
Re: So whats the low down on an ECU?
Quote:
STRADALE said:Quote:
Alex_ said:
I still think exhaust and plenum is plenty enough for Porsche to invalidate your warranty anyway.
So I don't see the difference myself. As soon as you change just one thing I think the can of worms is already wide open...
For example, I had a senior Porsche guy tell me that changing even the exhaust, changes the back-pressure, which 'can' mess up the engine. He said as soon as you change any component then you would almost certainly lose the whole warranty unless you could prove conclusively that the mod wasn't to blame (which is very hard to do).
- this is one of the reasons why I wanted an ECU map that had been developed in conjunction with the exhaust mod.
Guess it's different for different places but the exhaust & plenum wouldnt effect warranty work where as the ECU definitely will. Had this conversation w/ my Porsche dealer (w/ the owner of the dealership) when he installed my exhaust & plenum.
I also checked in CA and the dealer told me unless they can prove the problem (if any) was caused by the plenum or exhaust the warranty will be just fine but the minute they find out about the ECU tuning the warranty will be out the door. I agree with Stradale and will stay with my plenum and exhuast for now as it is plenty fast even faster than the GTR
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