18.03.2008 05:53:41
18.03.2008 06:33:59
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Spyderidol said:
I agree with much of what was written.
There is one point, in particular, that I have been trying to say on this forum for some time.
De Lorenzo says it better:
"And I've responded in kind with this: Promoting short-term profitability ahead of decades of accrued brand equity is a fool's errand, one that will ultimately prove to have disastrous consequences. Sell enough Cayenne SUVs and the upcoming Panamera four-door sedans to people whose interest in the vehicles only goes as far as wanting a Porsche emblem - an emblem that's being slapped on a wider array of vehicles totally disconnected from the brand's raison d'etre - while being clueless as to why they're buying it in the first place - and eventually they'll displace the hard-core True Believers who bought into Porsche's original brand essence in the first place."
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racerx said:
The only thing watering down the image is the fact that porsche co-developed the exterior with VW and the V6 version power-wise.
Ironically, the single car that built the most of the porsche image was the 928. And on the racing side the legend of the 917. the 956/962 and Mclaren tag turbo didn't hurt.
There is nothing wrong with more model lines as long as they lead their category in design and performance. The panamera looks like a major flop waiting to happen.
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racerx said:
The only thing watering down the image is the fact that porsche co-developed the exterior with VW and the V6 version power-wise.
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racerx said:Ironically, the single car that built the most of the porsche image was the 928.
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ADias said:Quote:
Spyderidol said:
I agree with much of what was written.
There is one point, in particular, that I have been trying to say on this forum for some time.
De Lorenzo says it better:
"And I've responded in kind with this: Promoting short-term profitability ahead of decades of accrued brand equity is a fool's errand, one that will ultimately prove to have disastrous consequences. Sell enough Cayenne SUVs and the upcoming Panamera four-door sedans to people whose interest in the vehicles only goes as far as wanting a Porsche emblem - an emblem that's being slapped on a wider array of vehicles totally disconnected from the brand's raison d'etre - while being clueless as to why they're buying it in the first place - and eventually they'll displace the hard-core True Believers who bought into Porsche's original brand essence in the first place."
Precisely! And unfortunately it's happening already. The majority of 911/Boxster/Cayman buyers have no clue about the engineering/design/driving characteristics, they bought thesew cars for the badge's cachet. They will switch to another brand soon enough, the same way they change a shirt.
There was this talk that WW would be history. Is Wendelin being fired or what?
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The Groom said:
You've got to be kidding. The 928 was a landmark (it's the car that got me addicted to Porsche in the first place), but your refusal to acknowledge the 911 is ridiculous.
Even though the 928 was the superior vehicle, even though Porsche management wanted to phase out the obsolete and costly 911, customers kept buying the latter because the 911 was and remains the iconic Porsche.
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racerx said:...
Of course the 911 is a great part of Porsche, and since the demise of the 928 and Le Mans domination, IT IS PORSCHE. But we are talking about the image of Porsche, as the top maker of quality high performance luxury cars.
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racerx said:...Your lack of knowledge about the company is showing. The 924 has no connection to the 928 except for engine placement. It, the 924, was a stillborn effort for Audi, rebadged for porsche....
18.03.2008 20:57:34
18.03.2008 22:02:57
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Atzporsche said:
guys the 911 started it all for porsche and is indeed porsches classic image.
The 928 is a superb car in every way. It was actually meant to replace the 911.. but [beep] indeed happened. did you guys know it was the fastest production car on the market in its time...
I wish porsche would put as much effort in their new stuff, especially considering the budget available.
I am willing to argue that the 944 is a true porsche as well because it show cased their evolution ability rather than revolution ability of others. The 944 was Porsches evolution from the "audi" 924.
Sad reality is that the new 928, which will probably come out, will just be a quick and lazy sister of the Panamera, which is a quick and lazy concept alltogether
At the end of the day, i think the general car buyer is ruining the whole automobile industry.. Porsche is unfortunately falling into this secment to sell sell sell but this takes away their true root of being sports car like. THey got to keep making CGTs and 959s and GT1s to compensate for Cayenne, Panamera...
my $.02
19.03.2008 09:55:31
19.03.2008 12:32:26
19.03.2008 16:41:37
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easy_rider911 said:
For me, the proof of how Porsche has simply been chasing profits while appearing to forget (1) its sporty origins and (2) its philosophy of developing cars for purists is the release of so many 'special editions' which are in reality anything but special. Those special editions are just special deals on a particular combination of options! It's so transparently just a way of milking some extra money from their existing R&D investment.
I love my Porsche. It's very special to me but I won't kid myself into denying what seems obvious now.
IMHO Porsche's sporty pedigree is now largely historic and not so much 'current' anymore. As such, talking about race success and building cars for purists is more to do with clever marketing than making a statement based on reality.
I think nberry's post was 100% correct.
19.03.2008 17:56:44
19.03.2008 18:05:50
19.03.2008 18:28:07
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Porsche-Jeck said:Quote:
964C2 said:
I remember in the early 60's all the Porsche purists saying the last "real" Porsche was the 356
tempora mutantur: in 20 years people will praise the pure and raw driving experience of a 996 C4 Tiptronic
19.03.2008 18:41:27
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reginos said:
Strange that they won overall the Sebring 12H last weekend, one of the most celebrated races in the USA.
When I read about the "purist era" I wonder when such period of time existed. Because in the 60s "purists" complained about the 914, in the 70s-80s about the 924/944 and in the 90s-00s about anything watercooled. IMO the present range has nothing to be jealous of engineering-wise and from the sporty driving point of view from any other Porsche period and from any other manufacturer for that matter.
Like everything in life things move on and staying attached to sterotypes and formulae of the past makes us look like romantic fools.
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racerx said:Quote:
reginos said:
Strange that they won overall the Sebring 12H last weekend, one of the most celebrated races in the USA.
When I read about the "purist era" I wonder when such period of time existed. Because in the 60s "purists" complained about the 914, in the 70s-80s about the 924/944 and in the 90s-00s about anything watercooled. IMO the present range has nothing to be jealous of engineering-wise and from the sporty driving point of view from any other Porsche period and from any other manufacturer for that matter.
Like everything in life things move on and staying attached to sterotypes and formulae of the past makes us look like romantic fools.
Well said, not any purer perhaps, but a high point had to be 1985 with total domination of F1, endurance racing, and the high end sports car market.
Their engineering is still superb, its the design that could use a little help. And I would like to see a 575 hp, ceramic braked, $145,000.00 928 in a Porsche showroom today.
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racerx said:
I did some math, Crash. If the 928 was to be relaunched and keep its position in the porsche line-up relative to the turbo as it existed in the mid 1980's to today's 997tt, the numbers I mentioned would be the numbers.
575 hp, 550 tq, 145K price, 215 top speed, but 0-60 3.8.
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4trac said:Quote:
racerx said:
I did some math, Crash. If the 928 was to be relaunched and keep its position in the porsche line-up relative to the turbo as it existed in the mid 1980's to today's 997tt, the numbers I mentioned would be the numbers.
575 hp, 550 tq, 145K price, 215 top speed, but 0-60 3.8.
Hey, didn't Porsche just release a front engine 928 style coupe, with even faster 0-60 time than 3.8 sec, incredible handling, F1 tranny, and for Cayman prices?? Oops, sorry, that was Nissan..
20.03.2008 03:01:21