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    Nov 18, 2007 1:33:41 AM

    shin
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    shin
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    F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    As there has been very little info about the F149 (GT California), while we wait, I think it would be interesting to talk about how they would compare, performance-wise and style-wise (a bit of speculative, I know, but let's go at it anyway) based on what we know..

    1. The F149 will use a new alumunium chassis which will also be used by the mid-engined F142 and it's much of an improvement than the old 360/F430 chassis. It will use a faster F1 transmission and possibly magnetic ride so even if the F149 is supposed to be a GT, I think it will give the F430 a run for its money if driven hard..?

    2. As the F149 is front-engined, the proportions could already be guessed but as it's a 2+2 I don't think it will be a mini 599, ex the smaller engine will not make that long a hood and the 2+2 cabin will not be as cab-backward as the 599. To compare it with Aston Martin's lineup it should be like the DB9 but as it is a folding hardtop CC, I don't think it will be as low as the DB9 as the roof will probably be a bit bulbous..?

    3. I think the side profile would be somewhere between the mid-engined, -but still not cab-forward enough- F430 and the extreme cab-backward, front-engined 599..?

    Anyone with an opinion..?

    Nov 19, 2007 10:18:21 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: shin

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    If Ferrari plans to protect their credibility, the model would fit between the 430 and 599 (thus no entry Ferrari). Therefore, its performance will be close to 430 if not equal to it because undoubtedly the chassis will be light weight. However, it will not equal the performance parameters of the 599.

    Its styling I suspect will be a mishmash of 612, 599 and Maserati. I have never liked the looks of a front engine Ferrari and I very much doubt I will like the looks of the 149 if there is such a car.

    Too me Ferrari should be about high performance sport cars which are sexy and very stylish. The smiley front ends do nothing for me.

    Nov 20, 2007 6:20:36 AM

    SrfCity
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    The car will be the new entry level F-car.

    Nov 20, 2007 6:52:11 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: SrfCity

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    The car will be the new entry level F-car.



    Correct. Future Ferrari lineup will be (in Euro): California GT for 150k, F430 successor for 200k and 599/612 for 250k and above.

    Nov 20, 2007 6:57:50 AM

    shin
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    shin
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    Reply to: SrfCity

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    Nick, I share your opinion about the looks of a front engined Ferrari and I'm kinda hoping the F149 would be different (read : prettier). If Aston can make front-engined cars so beautiful, why can't Ferrari, right? I mean, after the 612, surely they can't make something uglier..

    But, the F149 will be the new entry level car. No point of raising the price and class of the F142 if this is not the case. And, you miss the point of the F149 in the first place : it is a car Ferrari builds for the emerging markets and not just the USA anymore. No point of doing it if they price the car higher than the F430. Ferrari is also worried about Aston Martin with their V8 Vantage and Lamborghini with the upcoming V8 Gallardo.

    I don't think Ferrari will have a 4-car lineup forever, though. They have stated that they're phasing out the V12 and if the F149 turns out to be so successful, I don't think we will see a successor to the 612. As global recession looming, demand for ultra-expensive V12 2+2 GT cars will decrease and at its price point which is much higher than the DB9/Cont GT/CL 65, the 612 will be first to be hit.

    Lamborghini had seen it coming so they axed the Espada project. I think Ferrari is trying to phase out the 612, too..

    Nov 20, 2007 7:16:58 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: shin

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    Quote:
    shin said:
    I mean, after the 612, surely they can't make something uglier..


    That was nasty.

    Not sure if the 612 really will be diccontinued though. 599 and 612 are not that much apart and by the time the detuned Enzo V12 will find its way into a facelifted 612, the difference will be even smaller. If the big V12s are a dying breed, the 599 will be affected as well.

    Nov 20, 2007 7:25:09 AM

    shin
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    shin
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    Quote:
    Rossi said:

    Not sure if the 612 really will be diccontinued though. 599 and 612 are not that much apart and by the time the detuned Enzo V12 will find its way into a facelifted 612, the difference will be even smaller. If the big V12s are a dying breed, the 599 will be affected as well.



    I was talking about their successors, though. If their next hypercar uses turbocharged V8, like the F142 before it, I'm sure we will see the same configuration in the 599's successor.

    Ferrari is trying to be greener (whatever that means for a supercar maker), and aside from direct injection and turbocharger (less CO2, more horsepower), they're also focusing the future on their V8 (better fuel efficiency)..

    They may be the first to do so, as I think Aston and Lambo would still be having V12s long from now..

    I even heard that the Vantage would be having a V12 version at some point of its life span. Apparently, its engine bay is large enough for a V12..

    Nov 20, 2007 2:55:10 PM

    WBH
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    WBH
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    Reply to: shin

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    Tend to be skeptical re: eco posturing.....some 25yrs ago, as a kid, recall bleak era of increasingly detuned cars; predictions of econoboxes-only/demise of V8/12; 55MPH speed lims, etc.....as a young car nut, thought future was doomed....who would have predicted in '82 that, in '07 guys are casually commuting in urban traffic in new 65s/599s???? Or that middle-income guys in US are still casually buying/driving new 12MPG/6000lb+ SUVs to drive self for daily 60mi round-trip commute???

    What is real volume demand in 3rdWorld for new F's? Even in US, aside from regions like CA/NYC, few new F's are sold in minor mkts b/c of poor roads/weather/consumption culture.....and many of car nuts in perf car-unfriendly places buy/keep their F's at wkend houses in CA/FL.....similarly, suspect many affluent car guys in 3rdWorld will buy/keep new F's at wkend houses in EU/US....globalization and incrd prevalence of far-flung wkend houses....cars (vs luxury goods like Patek/Petrus/clothes, etc) are harder to consume b/c of infrastruc/security/cultural issues in many settings....

    Wouldn't take eco stuff too seriously as well b/c many major new F buyers are prob rather addicted to gas-guzzling big private planes to time-efficiently travel for business/easily head to discretionary wkend houses.....for those comfortable w/fuel burn/costs of G550s, suspect MPG diffces of V12 vs V8, etc are rather trivial....

    Also, not sure how much more economical many of these motors are in real-world driving.....in my expce, cars ranging from 997TT to CL63 to CL65 to 599 all deliver some 12MPG in mix of urban driving/fwy/mtn twisties....don't really see material real-world MPG advantage of a puny 997TT motor vs 600hp+ V12s.....

    Nov 20, 2007 3:24:33 PM

    Leawood911
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    WBH
    interesting style/format....to your writing/comments/post....sometimes I get anxious/nervous/jittery...just reading. Like I am not going fast/quickly enough... and need to catch...my breath/relax/drink a mug of beer/smoke one/etc. just to relax/unwind...after one of your posts.
    Cheers/prost/in good health...eh

    Nov 20, 2007 3:35:05 PM

    Ferdie
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    Ferdie
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    Reply to: Leawood911

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    Quote:
    Leawood911 said:
    sometimes I get anxious/nervous/jittery...just reading.





    In fact, I sense something changed in WBH's writing in respect of content. Very funny to read...

    Nov 20, 2007 4:25:44 PM

    SrfCity
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    Yes, I agree that the eco thing is probably not as big a deal to worry about as they make it seem. Sure car manufacturers will make efforts in that direction but when it comes right down to it we'll still be able to buy the high powered sports and luxury cars.

    The whole global warming thing is a scheme to tax you more anyway.(man's influence on GW is only 3% while the warming of the suns rays represent 70%) In future we may have to pay a little more tax to enjoy the privilege of driving these cars.

    Nov 20, 2007 7:47:38 PM

    vinnie
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    vinnie
    Loc: Australia , Australia
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    Reply to: Leawood911

    Re: F430 vs 430 GT California ?

    Quote:
    Leawood911 said:
    WBH
    interesting style/format....to your writing/comments/post....sometimes I get anxious/nervous/jittery...just reading. Like I am not going fast/quickly enough... and need to catch...my breath/relax/drink a mug of beer/smoke one/etc. just to relax/unwind...after one of your posts.
    Cheers/prost/in good health...eh





    I like his style of writing/format.

    When I was new to the forum I could always tell apart his posts from other people's without seeing his name.

    Like his style or not all his posts are accurate/relevant.
     
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