Nov 10, 2007 7:38:29 AM
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Marwan Arakji
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Nov 10, 2007 8:49:19 AM
- Georges G. Hayek
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Nov 10, 2007 8:51:08 AM
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MKSGR
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
The Scuderia is a great car. However, it is miles away from Ferrari's highly-refined and highly-exclusive special editions like 288GTO, F40, F50 or Enzo. The special editions have always been at the very top of the sports car world upon market introduction. The Scuderia is just one of many attractive sports cars.
P.S.: You can answer the question most easily if you asked yourself whether the Scuderia will still be that attractive if the much faster and more refined CS version of the 430 successor will be availbale in 3 years or so... You see my point? The Scuderia is a special version of the 430. As soon as the 430 has a successor the 430 and the Scuderia will be just former V8 models.
In essence, if you order the Scuderia you should buy it to have fun with the car on the street and at the track. You should NOT order it as you hope for very stable prices etc. The car will sell at fairly moderate prices in 5-10 years time. Just look at the 360CS - prices are decreasing as the Scuderia becomes available.
P.S.: You can answer the question most easily if you asked yourself whether the Scuderia will still be that attractive if the much faster and more refined CS version of the 430 successor will be availbale in 3 years or so... You see my point? The Scuderia is a special version of the 430. As soon as the 430 has a successor the 430 and the Scuderia will be just former V8 models.
In essence, if you order the Scuderia you should buy it to have fun with the car on the street and at the track. You should NOT order it as you hope for very stable prices etc. The car will sell at fairly moderate prices in 5-10 years time. Just look at the 360CS - prices are decreasing as the Scuderia becomes available.
Nov 10, 2007 12:25:27 PM
- vinnie
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Nov 10, 2007 3:55:31 PM
- Modrocket_stereo
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
The Scuderia's sense of purpose is on point is not a wonderful car to look at. It is stunning but unlike earlier Ferrari's it does not have that same I am melting just looking at it quality. I feel that the design direction of Ferrari will continue this trend.
The 430 Scuderia is the it car everyone wants to have. MKSGR said it best: As soon as the 430 has a successor the 430 and the Scuderia will be just former V8 models.
The 430 Scuderia is the it car everyone wants to have. MKSGR said it best: As soon as the 430 has a successor the 430 and the Scuderia will be just former V8 models.
Nov 10, 2007 5:26:52 PM
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Marwan Arakji
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Nov 10, 2007 5:31:01 PM
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Marwan Arakji
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Quote:
Modrocket_stereo said:
The Scuderia's sense of purpose is on point is not a wonderful car to look at. It is stunning but unlike earlier Ferrari's it does not have that same I am melting just looking at it quality. I feel that the design direction of Ferrari will continue this trend.
The 430 Scuderia is the it car everyone wants to have. MKSGR said it best: As soon as the 430 has a successor the 430 and the Scuderia will be just former V8 models.
you guys are right... the 288 GTO was amazing when it came out... still the nicest post-70 Ferrari... I was hoping to hear that the Scuderia would go down that same path
Nov 10, 2007 5:46:45 PM
- Moogle
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Nov 10, 2007 9:38:43 PM
- Rossi
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Quote:
Marwan Arakji said:
Will the Scuderia go down the Ferrari Hall of Fame, with the F40, GTO 288, etc.?
No. Sure, it's a great car, but on the other hand it is nothing else than "just" a special version of a car, that is already the facelifted version of an entrylevel-V8-Ferrari designed and engineered way back in the nineties.
The GTO, F40, F50, Enzo have been the on the top of the Ferrari model line, built in very limited quantities (except for the F40). The Scuderia (as the Challenge Stradale) is just not special enough to have the same reputation as these cars. If the Scuderia had 550hp, was 250kg lighter and was produced only in hundreds, you could put it in a row with Ferrari's greatest cars. But that was not the intention.
So if the F430 will be presented with the latest technology and a design for the V8-models, the F430/Scuderia will look dated.
Nov 11, 2007 4:22:35 AM
- WBH
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Notion of a "classic" re: cars is absurd....classicism may apply to low-tech items like Patek/Petrus/bespoke items of clothing, but not to tech-intensive cars/smartphones/flat-panel TVs/laptops/iPods, etc....
Any car is a rapidly obsoleting, disposable tech device...so, if mfr has productive R&D and mfg, any car model will have many quiet/obvious advances/debugs every few mths....
And, unlike a conventional consumer tech device, cars represent one of few choices/situations in life where affluent owners/drivers face great physical risk to own health during use (w/events and life-altering decisions often occurring within secs)...
And older cars (i.e., >6mos old and/or >5K mis) have various decay curves of use/non-use to consider....such as tires/brakes/wheels/airbag systems.....raising decay-related safety issues/unknowns, in addition to obvious obsolescence-related safety weaknesses....
Any car is a rapidly obsoleting, disposable tech device...so, if mfr has productive R&D and mfg, any car model will have many quiet/obvious advances/debugs every few mths....
And, unlike a conventional consumer tech device, cars represent one of few choices/situations in life where affluent owners/drivers face great physical risk to own health during use (w/events and life-altering decisions often occurring within secs)...
And older cars (i.e., >6mos old and/or >5K mis) have various decay curves of use/non-use to consider....such as tires/brakes/wheels/airbag systems.....raising decay-related safety issues/unknowns, in addition to obvious obsolescence-related safety weaknesses....
Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Quote:
MKSGR said:
The Scuderia is a great car. However, it is miles away from Ferrari's highly-refined and highly-exclusive special editions like 288GTO, F40, F50 or Enzo. The special editions have always been at the very top of the sports car world upon market introduction. The Scuderia is just one of many attractive sports cars.
P.S.: You can answer the question most easily if you asked yourself whether the Scuderia will still be that attractive if the much faster and more refined CS version of the 430 successor will be availbale in 3 years or so... You see my point? The Scuderia is a special version of the 430. As soon as the 430 has a successor the 430 and the Scuderia will be just former V8 models.
In essence, if you order the Scuderia you should buy it to have fun with the car on the street and at the track. You should NOT order it as you hope for very stable prices etc. The car will sell at fairly moderate prices in 5-10 years time. Just look at the 360CS - prices are decreasing as the Scuderia becomes available.
You couldn't said it any better.. Nicely done my friend.....
Nov 11, 2007 7:23:36 AM
- Georges G. Hayek
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Quote:
Georges G. Hayek said:
A true masterpiece Marwan! Mabrook BTW! 345 days to go for the both of us
Quote:
Marwan Arakji said:I have decide to stay without a car, and test my patience... it would also surely make me appreciate it more... going to maranello for pick-up?
I'm keeping my 997 for moment. Will probably sell it early summer 08... I am considering picking up the Scud form Maranello, what about you?
Nov 11, 2007 10:48:23 AM
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Marwan Arakji
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Quote:
Georges G. Hayek said:Quote:
Georges G. Hayek said:
A true masterpiece Marwan! Mabrook BTW! 345 days to go for the both of usQuote:
Marwan Arakji said:I have decide to stay without a car, and test my patience... it would also surely make me appreciate it more... going to maranello for pick-up?
I'm keeping my 997 for moment. Will probably sell it early summer 08... I am considering picking up the Scud form Maranello, what about you?
I just sold my C2S Cab... the facelift with PDK and extra bhp is coming as early as June, with introduction at the Geneva motorshow... I will be going to Maranello too... paid for EE plates... I can't think of any other car which can be exclusive, fun, and low on the depreciation scale! unless I run into a super clean, hardly used exotic, already depreciated (a Lambo or Aston)... but no more porsches (unless there is a MKII GT3RS)...
Nov 11, 2007 10:51:06 AM
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Marwan Arakji
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Quote:
WBH said:
Notion of a "classic" re: cars is absurd....classicism may apply to low-tech items like Patek/Petrus/bespoke items of clothing, but not to tech-intensive cars/smartphones/flat-panel TVs/laptops/iPods, etc....
I beg to differ... products which introduce new and revolutionary technology do become classics... the Scuderia may not be one, many products have gone down in history as classics, simply for their revolutionary technology at the time...
Any car is a rapidly obsoleting, disposable tech device...so, if mfr has productive R&D and mfg, any car model will have many quiet/obvious advances/debugs every few mths....
And, unlike a conventional consumer tech device, cars represent one of few choices/situations in life where affluent owners/drivers face great physical risk to own health during use (w/events and life-altering decisions often occurring within secs)...
And older cars (i.e., >6mos old and/or >5K mis) have various decay curves of use/non-use to consider....such as tires/brakes/wheels/airbag systems.....raising decay-related safety issues/unknowns, in addition to obvious obsolescence-related safety weaknesses....
Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Quote:
WBH said:
Notion of a "classic" re: cars is absurd....classicism may apply to low-tech items like Patek/Petrus/bespoke items of clothing, but not to tech-intensive cars/smartphones/flat-panel TVs/laptops/iPods, etc....
Objection: Patek is not a low-tech item
Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Quote:
OCG said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
The Scuderia is a great car. However, it is miles away from Ferrari's highly-refined and highly-exclusive special editions like 288GTO, F40, F50 or Enzo. The special editions have always been at the very top of the sports car world upon market introduction. The Scuderia is just one of many attractive sports cars.
P.S.: You can answer the question most easily if you asked yourself whether the Scuderia will still be that attractive if the much faster and more refined CS version of the 430 successor will be availbale in 3 years or so... You see my point? The Scuderia is a special version of the 430. As soon as the 430 has a successor the 430 and the Scuderia will be just former V8 models.
In essence, if you order the Scuderia you should buy it to have fun with the car on the street and at the track. You should NOT order it as you hope for very stable prices etc. The car will sell at fairly moderate prices in 5-10 years time. Just look at the 360CS - prices are decreasing as the Scuderia becomes available.
You couldn't said it any better.. Nicely done my friend.....
Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Quote:
WBH said:
Notion of a "classic" re: cars is absurd....classicism may apply to low-tech items like Patek/Petrus/bespoke items of clothing, but not to tech-intensive cars/smartphones/flat-panel TVs/laptops/iPods, etc....
Any car is a rapidly obsoleting, disposable tech device...so, if mfr has productive R&D and mfg, any car model will have many quiet/obvious advances/debugs every few mths....
And, unlike a conventional consumer tech device, cars represent one of few choices/situations in life where affluent owners/drivers face great physical risk to own health during use (w/events and life-altering decisions often occurring within secs)...
And older cars (i.e., >6mos old and/or >5K mis) have various decay curves of use/non-use to consider....such as tires/brakes/wheels/airbag systems.....raising decay-related safety issues/unknowns, in addition to obvious obsolescence-related safety weaknesses....
.... 
Nov 11, 2007 4:11:48 PM
- Turbo4ever
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Nov 11, 2007 8:26:13 PM
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Marwan Arakji
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Nov 12, 2007 3:46:48 AM
- Modrocket_stereo
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Marwan, he never hinted he would buy a Challenge Stradale over a Scuderia. Just saying the Scuderia is not as special as the Challenge Stradale, which I agree. Although the Scud ultimately has a higher output and reworked aerodynamics, the Challenge was very raw. I don't think the Scuderia has fire-resistant seats or the plastic window with the window slidings.
Nov 12, 2007 7:03:12 AM
- Georges G. Hayek
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
How can you judge a car that hasn't been on the roads yet?! Have you driven a 430 Scuderia in order to compare it with the 360 CS?! Has anyone!? the Scud is practically the same concept as the CS => lightweight. But coming up-close and personal we'll fine this:
- 60 m/s (the quickest of all Ferraris) shifting vs. 150 m/s for the 360 CS
- Manettino enables you to control fully the electronics of the car i.e. E-diff, Trac...
- Equals the Enzo lap time @ Fiorano
- Shumy himself modded the car
- It is a "back to the future" car for the 360 CS
- And the list goes on-and-on...
Now how does it make the 360 CS more special than the 430 Scuderia?! If you're talking aesthetically wise, no one can argue on personal taste but when it come to facts...
...Probably I didn't get you right
Hope I didn't offend anyone, just my opinion...
- 60 m/s (the quickest of all Ferraris) shifting vs. 150 m/s for the 360 CS
- Manettino enables you to control fully the electronics of the car i.e. E-diff, Trac...
- Equals the Enzo lap time @ Fiorano
- Shumy himself modded the car
- It is a "back to the future" car for the 360 CS
- And the list goes on-and-on...
Now how does it make the 360 CS more special than the 430 Scuderia?! If you're talking aesthetically wise, no one can argue on personal taste but when it come to facts...
...Probably I didn't get you right
Hope I didn't offend anyone, just my opinion...
Nov 12, 2007 7:04:51 AM
- Georges G. Hayek
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Nov 12, 2007 11:03:45 AM
- vinnie
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Great video Georges. 
The reviewer seemed to think it was very special, he said that this car will be talked
about for many years to come.
The Scudera changes gears as fast as their F1 cars did 3 years ago.
Ferrari are coming a long way in bringing their F1 technology to their road cars.
The reviewer seemed to think it was very special, he said that this car will be talked
about for many years to come.
The Scudera changes gears as fast as their F1 cars did 3 years ago.
Ferrari are coming a long way in bringing their F1 technology to their road cars.
Nov 12, 2007 1:08:35 PM
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Marwan Arakji
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Quote:
Georges G. Hayek said:
Marwan, if you haven't seen this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZzRICBFlIA
I have seen every video I could find, given that's all I got for the next -365 days!
Nov 12, 2007 1:56:27 PM
- Modrocket_stereo
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
I don't think you need to drive a car to determine if it will be special in the future. Just because the Scuderia has the latest hardware and software does not mean anything. Look at how magazines compared the Ferrari supercars. The Enzo is faster than its older stablemates but people cannot help but be drawn to the magic that is the F40, despite being decades older. Same theory can apply to the 360 Challenge Stradale to the Scuderia.
And again like MKSGR said, "As soon as the 430 has a successor the 430 and the Scuderia will be just former V8 models." It happens with all cars. Look at how the 996 GT3 MKI was so highly coveted then the MKII came out and people forgot about the it. With the 997 GT3, no one here really talks about the 996s in this forum. Same thing with the Challenge Stradale when we heard about the F430; people no longer talked about the 360 Challenge Stradale. Much of the talk started to become more about what will the new Challenge Stradale be like. People want to the talk about the Scuderia but rarely the base F430. By the time Ferrari releases a new generation and CS/Scuderia version of that, everyone will have moved on. And then you can argue if the new one will be special by neglecting how immersed we were with the cars of the day by saying some nonesense like:
- 45 m/s (the quickest of all Ferraris) shifting vs. 60 m/s for the 430 Scuderia
- Super Manettino enables you to control fully the electronics of the car i.e. E-diff, Trac, and fly through the fabric of time and space
- Equals the FXX lap time @ Fiorano
- Shumy himself designed the car
- It is a "back to the future" car for the 430 Scuderia
- And the list goes on-and-on...
So when does it all stop? When can we look back and appreciate something so original that even the modern faster cars are just that, faster cars? I think the 996 GT3 MKI is more special than the 997 GT3, despite lacking pace. And this applies to the Challenge Stradale, the Ferrari everyone wanted in its day.
And again like MKSGR said, "As soon as the 430 has a successor the 430 and the Scuderia will be just former V8 models." It happens with all cars. Look at how the 996 GT3 MKI was so highly coveted then the MKII came out and people forgot about the it. With the 997 GT3, no one here really talks about the 996s in this forum. Same thing with the Challenge Stradale when we heard about the F430; people no longer talked about the 360 Challenge Stradale. Much of the talk started to become more about what will the new Challenge Stradale be like. People want to the talk about the Scuderia but rarely the base F430. By the time Ferrari releases a new generation and CS/Scuderia version of that, everyone will have moved on. And then you can argue if the new one will be special by neglecting how immersed we were with the cars of the day by saying some nonesense like:
- 45 m/s (the quickest of all Ferraris) shifting vs. 60 m/s for the 430 Scuderia
- Super Manettino enables you to control fully the electronics of the car i.e. E-diff, Trac, and fly through the fabric of time and space
- Equals the FXX lap time @ Fiorano
- Shumy himself designed the car
- It is a "back to the future" car for the 430 Scuderia
- And the list goes on-and-on...
So when does it all stop? When can we look back and appreciate something so original that even the modern faster cars are just that, faster cars? I think the 996 GT3 MKI is more special than the 997 GT3, despite lacking pace. And this applies to the Challenge Stradale, the Ferrari everyone wanted in its day.
Nov 12, 2007 2:16:24 PM
- racerx
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Nice car, reminds me of the time i did laps in a stradale. Nice exhaust sound and fun paddle shifting, but all this talk about milliseconds to shift is just garbage.
That's the marketing hype that sells these for the bump in price. My 23 year old tranny seems to shift just as quick to my senses and gives more kick than the CS. The human body can't perceive things that infintesimle.
If price doesn't matter to you, then a fun ride.
That's the marketing hype that sells these for the bump in price. My 23 year old tranny seems to shift just as quick to my senses and gives more kick than the CS. The human body can't perceive things that infintesimle.
If price doesn't matter to you, then a fun ride.
Nov 12, 2007 2:16:32 PM
- Georges G. Hayek
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
IMHO, you cannot compare Porsche to Ferrari. Don't get me wrong, I am a 997 owner and love my car. But stepping into a Ferrari IS another story. Each Ferrari is by itself a class of its own. You are right about what the replacement will do for the 430, but we're talking about: How much is the HIT impact? The 430 Scud will surely depreciate the 360 CS, but by how much? Not much I guess. Same as the F430 depreciated the 360... Not much either. Whereas Porsche's 911 and GT3's are in someway mass produced compared to Ferraris. Then, the introduction of a new Porsche depreciate it's predecessor much more than Ferrari does.
Anyway, I never said that the 430 Scud will be "special" as the Enzo or so, but saying that the 360 CS is more special than the 430 Scud, this I cannot agree. It is like finding Windows XP more special than Windows Vista (although I'm a mac user :P )
Again, please do not feel offended, I do respect your point of view.
Cheers
Anyway, I never said that the 430 Scud will be "special" as the Enzo or so, but saying that the 360 CS is more special than the 430 Scud, this I cannot agree. It is like finding Windows XP more special than Windows Vista (although I'm a mac user :P )
Again, please do not feel offended, I do respect your point of view.
Cheers
Nov 12, 2007 2:28:00 PM
- Modrocket_stereo
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Re: Scuderia, an instant classic???
Hayek, I am glad you respect my point of view but you interpreted my post rather incorrectly. I never said you stated the 430 Scuderia will be "special" as the Enzo, so I don't know where you go that from. I was merely using the Enzo and the F50 and F40 as examples but you decided to think I was implying the Scuderia. Wow, forget it because this will just continue a long line of posts that detracts from the whole topic.
Nov 12, 2007 2:33:23 PM
- Georges G. Hayek
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Nov 12, 2007 2:38:08 PM
- Modrocket_stereo
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