CloseQuote:
Jeannot said:
Like on humans :-)
So the math 10% loss per 1000m or 3000feet is about right.
Thanks for the reply!
Here a pic from today, 2005 meters....
Quote:
RC said:
And maybe it is this marketing ploy which annoys me most and not necessarily the car itself. Unfortunately this bad feeling reflects upon the Cayman. It is a pitty, this product deserves a better reputation.
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:Its only a matter of time until someone lets you drive a 73 911 with a uprated 993 engine and brakes.
Then you will see the light
Quote:
RC said:
I'm pretty sure that the Cayman sells well in some regions because people buying it either don't have a clue about Porsche tradition/heritage or fell for the "911" for less money marketing ploy. ... And maybe it is this marketing ploy which annoys me most and not necessarily the car itself. Unfortunately this bad feeling reflects upon the Cayman. It is a pitty, this product deserves a better reputation.
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:Its only a matter of time until someone lets you drive a 73 911 with a uprated 993 engine and brakes.
Then you will see the light
Quote:
jlr said:
Well, RC, I certainly don't think it's a "senseless" discussion, and you may not really think that yourself as you've devoted a half page to it, though any conversation about anything other than ethics, love, or friendship may be considered "senseless." As others have recently pointed out, Porsche has allowed its "lower" models to outrun the 911 on occasion. The 944 turbo is one example, and the 911 is not so sacred that Porsche would not abandon it if it stopped making them money over a stretch of years. After all, at one point they wanted to abandon it, but couldn't because it was still profitable. It isn't written in the stars that the Cayman cannot have LSD or more power, though it may seem that way for now. It is simply a matter of demand, and the models are distinct enough to appeal to different customers. When customers begin buying enough Ruf Caymans, Cayman GTRs, aftermarket tuning packages, etc., when the press continues to criticize Porsche for watering down their products, or when another manufacturer produces a similarly focused product with more peformance hardware like a LSD, they may change their tune.
Quote:
schao said:
RC, I think you have stated your views of the Cayman S often enough that no one really responds anymore. I myself have chosen to shrug at most of the generally mocking comments of the car from many others because it doesn't influence my enjoyment of the car. However, I think you have finally figured out that the problem is really you and your views of Porsche marketing, and not their cars.
Ultimately, buyers have to decide what is right for them, just as the 911 die-hards rejected the 928 as a successor in the past. Porsche now is happy to offer 911/Boxster/Cayman models because of the extensive parts and development sharing among these models, which was not the case with front-engined 924/944/968/928 models with the 911, and that lack of sharing is what ultimately doomed them. And the classic business case lesson in competition is "better to lose a sale to another product you produce than to a competitors product", so that is why the Boxster/Cayman's future is not in doubt in my mind.
Finally your quote really shows either your arrogance or ignorance as to why people buy Porsche's in different parts of the world. You are providing an excellent venue with rennteam.com for enthusiasts to talk about Porsche's; why would you care what someone wants to buy/drive? An analogy might be drinking Scotch (which I no longer do), but there are multiple brands, and within brands you have multiple years of aging, and single malt vs blends. Does the consumer of the single malt scotch really care if someone chooses the "lesser" scotch, or (horror of horrors) think less of this "obviously inferior" person? Life is about choices, and in the greater scheme of things, letting a sports car define who or what you are is a rather sad sign. But as you say, this is your forum, and people can choose to take it or not. In the end, I've chosen to stick around, but don't intend to just lurk and miss out on the fun! Cheers.Quote:
RC said:
I'm pretty sure that the Cayman sells well in some regions because people buying it either don't have a clue about Porsche tradition/heritage or fell for the "911" for less money marketing ploy. ... And maybe it is this marketing ploy which annoys me most and not necessarily the car itself. Unfortunately this bad feeling reflects upon the Cayman. It is a pitty, this product deserves a better reputation.
Jun 2, 2006 4:39:07 PM
(Boxster lost some 15% - the only cab selling like hot cake is the 997 cab).Jun 3, 2006 4:17:29 PM
Quote:
WAY said:
Until Porsche builds a Cayman with more grunt and LSD, I will be keeping my 997.
Quote:
WAY said:
The two latest comparison reviews I can think of are the Best Motoring Japan April 2006 issue and Wheels magazine (Australia). Both showed that the 997 is faster and "better". Until Porsche builds a Cayman with more grunt and LSD, I will be keeping my 997.
Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
I have to say that I am very much impressed about the advantages of the -20mm/LSD set-up (compared to the PASM) and would like to see what this set-up could do in the Boxster S or Cayman S (unfortunately not available)
Quote:
wtsnet said:Quote:
RC said:
Porsche could install even a 400 HP engine into the Cayman S and it would still be a...Cayman.....Don't fall for illusions and daydreams: Porsche will never allow the Cayman or any other car priced below, to "threaten" the 911.
Agree with your comments RC, but perhaps I was too subtle in the point I was trying to make. Original thread topic was 'Cayman handles great, but if they gave it more power and LSD it would probably lap faster than 911'
'Aha,' said someone. 'But you can't have cheap cars go quicker than expensive cars! That's bad for business!'. So I said that on that basis, give the Cayman the same power as 911, and if you like LSD, and price it at or above 911 price. That would keep the 'Rules of Porshce' consistant, and give us buyers a choice of equally fast car to buy at that price point... That would keep us ALL happy, right? Probably not, for the reasons I was trying too subtly to say, and you less subtly concluded - the Cayman is too Boxster-like to price it at 911 levels and still sell, regardless of power or ability. I still like it though, more for being a winter version (or hotter climate version!) of the Boxster. Though would prefer it priced closer to the Boxster. (Either move the Boxster up, or the Cayman down).
Quote:
andy987s said:Quote:
WAY said:
The two latest comparison reviews I can think of are the Best Motoring Japan April 2006 issue and Wheels magazine (Australia). Both showed that the 997 is faster and "better". Until Porsche builds a Cayman with more grunt and LSD, I will be keeping my 997.
WAY, That Wheels test was for a Base Cayman and they counted lap times etc for their points (maybe acceleration too - I just skimmed it). BTW Best Motoring is an even lower quality source of information (and thats saying something because wheels comes up a long short).
I think the best mags are Auto Motor und Sport, and Sport Auto (neither in english unfortunately). Road & Track, Car and Driver, and even Motor Trend are perfectly good. And Motor in Oz is OK.
But after you've read what everyone else has to say the acid test comes when you try things for yourself. I think you did just the right thing trying both cars on road and track. I did the same and went the other way - Cayman S.
For me it's the better choice. I really like the way it feels and the styling. A 997S with LSD, sports suspension and -20mm would be very tempting though. The 911 clearly has a lot my torque and instant urge out of tight corners. But I fell in love with the CS...
Enjoy you 997.
Oct 7, 2007 8:17:16 AM
Quote:
chapse said:
I was always curious if Porsche could remove the back seats of a 911, turn the engine/transmission around, and make the 911 midengine. Have it as an option , might resolve the issues of keeping the icon symbol of the 911, and apease the guys that want better handling or the need for two extra seats in the back.
Quote:
andy987s said:I was deciding between a 997S (with 10k on it) and Cayman S. I've put my order in for the Cayman S, and I have tee'd up with the dealer to fit KW v3 (height, bump and rebound indepentantly adjustable) coilovers.
I'm pointing this out to you as it will allow -20mm (and more if need be) as well as tightening the damping for track work. Presumably the same set would fit your Boxster also.
I agree that it's a pity that it isn't a factory option, but getting them dealer supplied is the next best thing (I made it a condition of the sale). Incidentally the KW's are made in Germany and have a lifetime warranty.
Andy
Oct 7, 2007 4:16:57 PM
Quote:
faterikcartman said:
Good lord man hold your tongue! I was all but run off either here or rennteam a year or so ago for daring to suggest that a Cayman with more oomph would handle turns faster than a 911 due to front/rear balance. (...)
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
