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    Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Just got back from Germany, found a fantastic road from Lanshut to Munich, it goes past the BMW plant in Dingolfing.

    What an incredible road, so flat and fast. It was about 6pm and I drove the whole distance above at or above 180km/hr..just incredible.
    Does anyone know the road Im talking about?

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    Just got back from Germany, found a fantastic road from Lanshut to Munich, it goes past the BMW plant in Dingolfing.

    What an incredible road, so flat and fast. It was about 6pm and I drove the whole distance above at or above 180km/hr..just incredible.
    Does anyone know the road Im talking about?



    Of course I know, this is one of my favorite Autobahns:
    my "record" is 45 minutes from Augsburg to Landshut, go figure.
    BTW: this is the Autobahn I drove almost 5 minutes CONSTANTLY at a speedo speed of more than 300 kph in my former E55 AMG.

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    In Antwort auf:
    RC said:
    In Antwort auf:
    RR4 said:
    Just got back from Germany, found a fantastic road from Lanshut to Munich, it goes past the BMW plant in Dingolfing.

    What an incredible road, so flat and fast. It was about 6pm and I drove the whole distance above at or above 180km/hr..just incredible.
    Does anyone know the road Im talking about?



    Of course I know, this is one of my favorite Autobahns:
    my "record" is 45 minutes from Augsburg to Landshut, go figure.
    BTW: this is the Autobahn I drove almost 5 minutes CONSTANTLY at a speedo speed of more than 300 kph in my former E55 AMG.



    was this E55 AMG unlocked???
    i mean, normally is the limit 250 electronic locked, or not??

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    My former E55 AMG had the following OFFICIAL AMG retrofits, done at Affalterbach directly (incl. FULL warranty, etc.):
    1. speed raised to 300 kph (still limited!)
    2. limited slip differential (30%)
    3. modified gearbox software for manual mode (gear is kept, no automatic upshift as on the standard software)
    4. thicker F1 safety car style steering wheel

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    not bad, not bad, what was the extra price for that options??

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    Strebel said:
    not bad, not bad, what was the extra price for that options??



    Not sure if I remember correctly but something around 8500 Euro incl. install.

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    oh, thats, ok *g* that will cost my first car. lol

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    My dream, such a road woud be amazing!
    Unfortunately, France is going the opposite direction, two of my friends who own sport cars have now lost their license, been caught at 175 and 180 kmh respectovely, this is really sad.
    On the other hand, we have 40% less dead on our roads so you can't really complain, can you? Tricky...

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    Fanch said:

    On the other hand, we have 40% less dead on our roads so you can't really complain, can you? Tricky...



    In Germany most death ending accidents do not occur on speeds above 160 km/h, but below!

    Its also 3 or 4 times the traffic than in france, we have in Germany. I'm always wondering, after passing the boarder, there are only half the cars left!

    L@rs

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    I don't know the latest statistics but as far as I remember, only 5% of the deadly accidents happen on the german Autobahn.
    Compared to accident figures in Europe (all other EC states have a speed limit!), Germany has a pretty "good" accident figure. Which proves to me one thing: speed limits aren't the best solution to lower accident figures.
    You need a very good driver education (as far as I remember, more than 60% fail the first driving exam, theory or practice), you need an institution like the german TUEV which has very strict rules about technical mods and the technical status of older cars.
    From time to time, I receive a flashing light from the car I passed because the driver apparently feels I'm driving too fast in a "truck". This didn't happen in my 996 Turbo or E55 AMG. But I don't care too much.
    Interesting: mostly older drivers try to "block" me or keep their car on the left lane and make it difficult for me to pass.
    They drive at 160 kph or slightly more and they probably think that everything over this speed must be crazy.
    Same applies to women, whereever I have a problem with a car in front of me, it is a woman in 80-90% of the cases.
    Biggest mistake they make: when I come from behind at a speed of 260 kph, they move from the right lane to the left one to pass another car because they don't seem to be able to tell the distance between me and them. I don't know if this is something built in the genetic code but my wife has the same problem. She almost got killed once when she move at 140 kph to the left lane to pass a slowlier car and a fast car was coming from behind at more than 200 kph.

    Fact is: speed doesn't kill, it is the driver who drives the car or who makes a mistake. Good driver education AND common sense do the job to avoid an accident.
    I always take in consideration that the drivers in front of me make a mistake and this is why I NEVER drive at the limit on public streets. NEVER.

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    My dream, such a road woud be amazing!
    Unfortunately, France is going the opposite direction, two of my friends who own sport cars have now lost their license, been caught at 175 and 180 kmh respectovely, this is really sad.
    On the other hand, we have 40% less dead on our roads so you can't really complain, can you? Tricky...



    The streets in France are very good, you can go over 200 kph without a problem. This was actually always my "travelling speed" over there.
    And another thing: most french drivers seem to be very civilized, the let you pass and move to the right immediately if you're coming from behind at a higher speed. German drivers usually "block" you until there is a huge gap between the cars on the right.

    BUT...France has one problem: there are a few (very few) drivers which apparently have a lot of hot temper and it shows. Some of them are driving like crazies, never saw such stupid driving behaviour, honestly. They're looking for Father Death, apparently they already have an appointment with him.
    And in Paris, motorcycle drivers are the worse but also drivers of little vans. They drive like they're the only ones on the street, I had to avoid several impacts to get out of France without any bruises (to myself and my car ).
    Hot temper is a very bad thing when driving, no matter how good someone drives. Hot temper shuts off the brain and as soon as this happens...BOOOOM.

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    The problem is ... you have a lot of objects at very different velocities ... and that makes it dangerous driving fast on a Autobahn without Speedlimit ... because most of the other participants didn't ever experience a fast car ... and can't anticipate the speed of a "flying Porsche", e.g the time it needs to be right at their side ...coming from distances like 500m behind them l !!! They simply don't know !?

    i was quite shocked when attending a drivers training ... two cars started on an oval track on two different lanes... with a time gap of 5 seconds they both accelerated up to "only" 160 km/h ... then the leading car slowed down to 140 kmh ... when the faster car from behind reduced distance to approx. 50m the leading car hit the brakes heavily ... the following faster car did the same ... the result was scary although predictable ... the faster car coming from behind stopped approx. 20m (!) later ... that means if it had driven in the same lane ... both cars would have been destroyed and the drivers ... would have been dead most likely I asked myself ... when did i leave more than 50m of distance when driving up to a slower car ... which i wanted to move away from the left lane ?????????????? I tried to learn from that although i really know the correlation between speed and distance ...

    So i personally believe ... there is no safe riding at speeds above 200 km/h on the Autobahn with other cars going 100-120 km/h ?!?!

    And i like going fast ... but i always have to force myself to keep maximum concentration ... and calculate the risk i'm taking ... not only for myself ...but i have to admit ... sometimes i was very lucky to prevent an accident ...

    Greetz

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    Rookie said:

    So i personally believe ... there is no safe riding at speeds above 200 km/h on the Autobahn with other cars going 100-120 km/h ?!?!

    Greetz



    Never had a dangerous situation because you CAN predict what the others are doing. I know this sounds crazy but it is true. Of course there is always the risk that a crazy guy wants to kill himself and he moves to the left when you're only 5 meters away. But the chances are the same if he does it when you do 150 kph.

    There are some certain rules for high speed driving on a german Autobahn and you HAVE to follow them precisely if you want to stay alive:
    1. always watch the drivers in front of you, even they only move a centimeter to the right or left, apply the brakes and be ready
    2. never pass two or more cars who are very close one to each other at a very high speed, slow down and be ready to break
    3. be careful in curves, some drivers ahead of you might have a dead spot in their mirror and they move to the left without being able to see you. Always slow down before curves, especially if you can't see "through" them because you never know what happens after the curve.
    4. when there is a lot of traffic in front of you, be prepared for a sudden stop, especially after a curve, even if the left lane if completely free.
    5. always keep your lights on and don't hesitate to flash your lights if somebody on the right seems to want change the lane. At the same time be prepared to brake or even slightly apply the brake.
    6. when you're driving fast and you're not sure what the cars on the right in front of you are going to do, remove the foot from the throttle and put your foot on the brake pedal to be prepared. This can save you a second or two which can decide between life and death.
    7. always keep your car in the best possible technical condition, check the tire pressure and keep it around 0.2 bar over the recommended max. pressure for a fully loaded car.
    8. concentrate on the cars and street in front of you ONLY, your brain has to be 100% focused on what is happening in front of you. The slightest distraction can be deadly. One second at 260 kph is enough. This is actually the toughest part because most drivers don't concentrate enough, they think about business, family, they even listen to the text of the songs playing on their radio or some even look left and right to admire the nature. DON'T DO that if you're driving fast.
    9. learn to judge the braking distance of your car at high speeds, especially when the car is fully loaded and/or has hot brakes.

    And a few last points which I realized after talking to friends and relatives about high speed driving: some people don't see too well, especially at a wider distance. Go to an eye doctor and get a new prescription for glasses/contact lenses before it is too late. Visibility is one of the most important things when driving fast.
    People with a viewing sharpness below 50% should also be careful.
    Another thing: some people get that "famous" tunnel view when driving fast. These people should NOT drive that fast.
    You also need to always have the feeling of FULL control over your car, if you don't have this feeling or you feel slightly unsecure, DON'T go that fast.
    Be careful with the steering wheel, at very high speeds, turning the steering wheel only a little bit too sudden can cause you loosing control of your car if you're not used to it.
    And people who don't have a feel for steering angles and the whole car, people who are very hot tempered and can't control themselves 100%, should AVOID driving very fast.

    I know my "rules" don't protect 100% from having a high speed accident and I'm also sure that I might have forgotten a "rule" or two but they have worked fine for me for the past 15 years and I NEVER had a dangerous situation when I would have said to myself: that was close. If you have such situations from time to time or even often, YOU are doing something wrong. Think about it.

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Rookie said:

    So i personally believe ... there is no safe riding at speeds above 200 km/h on the Autobahn with other cars going 100-120 km/h ?!?!

    Greetz



    8. concentrate on the cars and street in front of you ONLY, your brain has to be 100% focused on what is happening in front of you. The slightest distraction can be deadly. One second at 260 kph is enough. This is actually the toughest part because most drivers don't concentrate enough, they think about business, family, they even listen to the text of the songs playing on their radio or some even look left and right to admire the nature. DON'T DO that if you're driving fast.




    Right!!!!

    For two or three weeks I made my DMSB-Licence in Spa Francorchamps. I drove with a DMSB-instructor sitting right next to me. The first two rounds went very well. I hit all those points on the track that we learned in the morning lesson from our instructor. In the third round I drove a little bit faster but there was some traffic in front of me so I didn't hit the Eau Rouge 100%. So the instructor starts to explain to me what I did wrong. But with this in mind I only was thinking at the last curve and I didn't concentrate on the next curve in front of me. With the consequence that the next curve almost was my last one for this day .

    This was a big, big lesson for me that day!!!

    Since then I always try to concentrate without thinking on any other things than the things in front of me!!! And if there was a critical situation on the track which cost me some concentration - for the next one or two minutes I decrase my speed a little bit!!

    Take care!

    mobile

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    In concrete RC ... what distance do you leave to the car ahead that you are approaching with 260 km/h ... giving him the flashing lights as a sign that you would like to pass ?????? Honestly !!!!???????

    I guess many of us overestimate the distance ... and the control one can have in such complex situations ... only drivers who are trained on highspeed situations ... like racedrivers ... are capable to apply a certain routine ... maybe combined with the same born instinct that makes them so fast ... ?! I try to do trainings on a regular basis because i felt that i learned a lot for my daily driving ... but the greatest effect it had on me was that i started to judge different over the degree of control i have ... when things get tight ... i try to avoid certain constellations nowadays ...

    And i change my tyres when the profile comes down to 4,5mm !!!

    Still ... i think the control you feel ... is much of a autosuggestion ... the physics is still there ... and it doesn't change because i feel secure ...

    Greetz

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    RC it obvious that you are a very expert driver and know what you're doing on the road. You car is safe, your driving skills might compensate for any bad luck on the road, but there's nothing you can do if sudenly a tire blows or a dog cross the highway. At 120Kph you can do something, at 250Kph it will be a disaster. My intention is not to critice you, as I am a car nut too, and I always ride at those speeds too, but not with my family inside the car, it might seems stupid, but if something happens to me is very bad, if something happens to my wife and child it's the end of the world.
    Please don't take me wrong for saying that, you're a grown up man and you don't need anybody to say what you should do on the road, but seeing your beautiful child sitting on the Cayenne and imagine doing 270Kph with her inside made me vent my opinion.
    I've a 8 month boy, and sometimes I'm making 160Kph or even 180Kph on my Audi A6, and than my wife always say "slow down , it's dangerous even without anyone in front of you" and I think to myself "what a pain in the *** " but after few seconds I can see that she's right, and in fact the right thing to do is to slow down a bit.

    But when I'm alone, that's another story + 250Kph whenever I can As I said before it might seem stupid and even not logical to the rest of you, but that's how I feel.

    J.Seven

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    You've all brought up some good points.
    I wondered too, as I was driving, what if my tire blows...

    Does anyone know, what would happen with a tire blowout at 180, 200, or 240 on especially high performance cars, in the DRY, NOT WET..

    I'm not asking worry worts to speculate, I can do that myself.

    I want to know if anyone has any experience.

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    J,

    i did not see where RC said he brought his family along for high speed runs?? i think we all have "alone" speed vs family speeds when driving...as long as we are fully life insured

    so many hotrodders are crashing in malibu right now on their fun twisty runs, that i find i'm going even slower than usual on those roads!

    and one has to go to nevada, to run 250 kmh on a public road stateside -- and that is deserted 2 lane, not smooth autobahns. it's less safe than 100 kmh, but you can see for miles so worst case is hitting a coyote or a bird which we know from experience can cause $1000's damage but won't kill you if you drive through it and dont avoid.

    in USA, no one expects anyone to come along at 200-250 kn=mh so i always slow to 150 kmh in advance of passing a car and use long turn signals to make them aware before passing and then re-accelerate. also you have to slow down to 180-200 kmh to visually identify any oncoming traffic, as it may be a cop!, and then re-accelarate. this makes for less gas mileage but lots of fun "whoosh" acceleration in a GT2

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    You've all brought up some good points.
    I wondered too, as I was driving, what if my tire blows...

    Does anyone know, what would happen with a tire blowout at 180, 200, or 240 on especially high performance cars, in the DRY, NOT WET..

    I'm not asking worry worts to speculate, I can do that myself.

    I want to know if anyone has any experience.



    Here's what happened to a friend of mine 7 months ago. He was doing 250Kph on a Boxster S with a passenger inside at 1.00 AM, on a highway, when the rear right tire blown. He could controled the car for a few seconds but when the tire got out of the wheel and the wheel touched the tarmac he lost it, at least that's what he told me.
    He and the passenger survived without anything, it's a miracle. I saw the car few days after the accident.

    Looking at this thing, I couldn't believe my friend was there next to me alive, speaking about his accident experience. GOD exist.




    The windshield is lower than the driver roll bar, and he came out without nothing.






    The hardtop


    Cranked chassi


    J.Seven

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    watt, he said it in another thread in the Cayenne board.
    RC is a ex-rally driver so he knows what he's doing better than most of us. I just vented my opinion in a thread that each one of us has its own interpretation.

    J.Seven

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    I've seen those pics before, from rennlist....
    but what were the circumstances?

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    I've seen those pics before, from rennlist....
    but what were the circumstances?



    It's normal that you have seen this pics on the web, I posted on PPBB some time ago as we both were posters there, and it made a big rush at the time.
    I explained the circunstances on my post with the pictures. He now drives a M3 343Hp.

    J.Seven

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    J,

    A well known openroadracing.com expert blew a rear left in a 993 TT, with full cage, fire and cell, at 330 kmh [198 mph]. they flipped 15 times and may have walked away except that they had no arm restraints on and their arms were thrown out and broken with every roll of the car... but being a race it just happened that the safety crew and helicopter were nearby.

    several others have blown rear tyres in Nevada open road races between 300 and 360 kmh, some have lived like the recent Japanese driver in 2003 [shown below, he was doing about 337 kmh], others have died.

    a cage is critical in a roll. i agree that boxster guy was lucky and protected by Porsche's great attention to safety and the Lord Himself

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    BTW,

    the data from open road racing indicates crash risk and tire failure increase exponentially from say 120 to 220 mph. i.e., one's risk of tire failure is pretty moderate below 170...

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Fact is: speed doesn't kill, it is the driver who drives the car or who makes a mistake. Good driver education AND common sense do the job to avoid an accident .... I always take in consideration that the drivers in front of me make a mistake and this is why I NEVER drive at the limit on public streets. NEVER.



    Police in NZ issued a record amount of (speeding) tickets, collected record revenue, but the road toll increased. Next year, they plan to issue even more tickets, but will place greater emphasis on red light and seat-belt violations.

    People's following distances here are crazy. It is impossible for those behind you to have enough distance to stop. Most of the time, I can not even see their number plates in my rear view. If you leave a reasonable gap in front, they'll overtake you and cut in.

    Then, trying to get them to merge ... hmmm ... I had this lady almost ram me out of my lane, after she performed her 'lets overtake 5 cars then push' manoeuvre. Now, we have safety signs asking people to 'merge like a zip'.

    This type of road behaviour is the result of poor driver education and road-driver arrogance.

    I wish death on the 'speed kills' mantra. The Police are also using 'The faster you go, the bigger the mess'. OK, that's more factual - in a way, but they forget about mass. Guess they forgot that a car would need to be travelling at 350+ km/h to make the same 'mess' as a 20 tonne truck.

    So, my driving rules are: keep a safe distance. On suburban roads I often travel at the limit (50km/h) or less. On arterial routes I travel with the traffic (~60). On the motorway, I don't pass a single car with a speed differential over 30 km/hr. For multiple / close car situations I allow around 10 km/h.

    I always think 'what if ...'

    If the road is clear, then my speed is governed by the typical warning and associated slowing times that my radar detector will give when lower powered Ka (hidden) is used against it.

    Meanwhile, I love my laser jammers.

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    Rookie said:
    In concrete RC ... what distance do you leave to the car ahead that you are approaching with 260 km/h ... giving him the flashing lights as a sign that you would like to pass ?????? Honestly !!!!???????



    The distance is always sufficient to brake in time, believe it or not. And the trick with bi-xenon lights it: just flash for a fraction of a second with your lights, it looks like a light flash from behind, pretty cool. I usually do that only if I drive very fast and I approach another car which drives on the left lane without having ANY other car on the right lane (happens pretty often in Germany but many people here don't know that it is the LAW over here to drive on the right lane, unless you're passing another car!).
    I don't take risks, NEVER. I know this sounds hard to believe if somebody tells you that he drives at 260 ore more in a "truck" but you have to trust my words.

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    RC said:I usually do that only if I drive very fast and I approach another car which drives on the left lane without having ANY other car on the right lane



    Now that you drive a Cayenne you should just run right over those left lane hoggers selfish idiots instead, and do us all a favor in the meantime ... few things things tick me off more than having to brake for someone who is just wondering in the left lane all alone untill they finally realise they are not alone in the road and get back to their right lane! they are the same ones that wonder back and fourth into the left lane on left turns without looking just when someone is approaching from behind in the left lane overtaking.

    BTW: contrary to what revenue thirsty burocrats and politians may want you to believe, "speeding" doesn't kill... "inapropriate" speed does, which has nothing to do with speed limits but rather on traffic conditions, vehicle type and condition, country's general driver education, road conditions, driver's sport driving skills AND driver's traffic driving skills (two differnt things), enviromental conditions, etc.
    Thats why I trust RC's words.

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    Quote:
    J.Seven said:
    watt, he said it in another thread in the Cayenne board.

    RC is a ex-rally driver so he knows what he's doing better than most of us. I just vented my opinion in a thread that each one of us has its own interpretation.

    J.Seven



    Check the picture on my Cayenne driving at 270 kph, look especially at the display in the middle.
    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=35118&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&fpart=1
    When I professionally did Rallye racing, my max speeds were around 160-180 kph, usually lower.
    I don't think this helped much with high speed driving but of course you learn to react fast.
    When I'm was watching the F1 race on TV and when I saw the picture from the car cameras how the drivers were driving through Monaco, I almost got sick. Unbelievable coordination of mind, eyes, hands and feet. I could NEVER do that.
    This is why I said that it depends on the driver, not the car. Some drivers are capable of things we can't do and I have all respect for them.

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    I saw those images from Monaco too, unbelieveble the way they drive on those public roads.

    J.Seven

    Re: Autobahn experience Munich to Landshut

    rc--

    i agree that the driver is the most crucial element but i think you are unwise to drive suv's at such high speeds. suv centre of gravity makes rollover likely even with a quick avoidance maneuver. i just witnessed an ml430 rollover at 110kph when swerving to avoid a dog--pretty ugly.

    i believe the current fad for suv's will abate when inreased mortality statistics become more obvious. i find it ironic that the most popular aspect of these trucks--increased ride height--also makes them the most dangerous vehicles on the road.

    isn't the e55 amg available in europe as a wagon (estate)? this would be a much safer vehicle for you and your family at such high speeds.

    peace

    ignacio

     
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