Quote:
tony2006 said:
I would take it over a 911.
Apr 24, 2007 10:02:54 AM
Apr 24, 2007 11:24:37 AM
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
toplad, I really enjoyed reading everything you wrote in paragraphs 2-4 of your post #342609 above. It was very interesting to read your perspective comparing the Cayman and the Boxster 986S.
In fact, you touched on a very inportant issue, namely, that the Cayman felt, to you, like it was "all of one piece".
I can empathise with that totally. I assume the 997 you drove had either the standard (i.e. non S) 997 suspension or PASM.
My car has -20mm sports suspension with rear LSD. The improvement is really drastic. My car feels like it was carved out of one solid piece of lightweight metal. It feels THAT good. Zero body roll. No discernible flexing. I am not exaggerating. And the cornering is astounding. It literally corners like it's on rails. (People often say that when describing other cars but they're exaggerating IMO. I don't believe that I am exaggerating at all when I say that about the -20mm with rear LSD set up). The steering talks to me continuously. I can imagine only the 997 GT3 could be even better somehow...It is the most amazing car I have ever driven.
Anyway, my basic point is this, I don't think you have driven the best 911 Carrera set up so, with all due respect, please hold off making your judgement until you have done so.
Now, I need to turn to your opening paragraph. This was really uncalled for. If the article had come down in favour of the non-S 997 over the Cayman S, I can assure you with all sincerity that I still wouldn't give this article any credence. It's so poorly written with such transparent bias that I really would not be interested in anything this writer could possibly have to say (even if he was equally biased in the opposite direction in favour of the 997).
But what saddened me more was to read that you could think that the '911 crowd' here on rennteam could be so shallow as to applaud this mediocre writer if his conclusions were opposite. Please do not demean us in this way. We have far more integrity and sincerity than that comment would suggest. I do hope you will be good enough to take that remark back.
Apr 24, 2007 11:59:24 AM
Quote:
toplad said:
Even now silly comments like "Boxster with a fixed roof blah,blah " etc still prevail.
Apr 24, 2007 3:51:03 PM
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
For the 911 Carrera, the -20mm set up is the most sporty factory fitted suspension available.
The GT3 set up is -30mm BUT it is not conventionally sprung like the -20mm. The GT3 set up is an improved PASM set up AFAIK.
Of course, I agree about the 'slow in/fast out' cornering technique used by 911 drivers. When only 38% of the weight is on the front axle, one has to adapt one's driving style to take account of the light front end. But, as you rightly said, the traction out of corners is a unique and exhilarating feeling.
Regarding engine position, it all boils down to whether you prefer a 'mid-engined' or '911 rear-engined' experience. Obviously, this is an individual choice and there are no right or wrong answers. All that matters is what gives a particular driver the thrill or buzz that he/she is seeking.
If I had to put forward an opposing view to the 'greater poise' argument you made, it would be as follows. With the Boxster 987S and Cayman S that I have test driven, I felt that the car made light work of the cornering challenge. These cars flattered my driving ability. With the 997, it is less easy to get a corner just right i.e where one feels that one went round the corner as quickly as possible on the limit with maximum control. As such, it is more of a challenge and therefore more satisfying when one does get it right. Ultimately, I would argue that it's a more rewarding drive because of this challenge. By contrast, a mid-engined car requires less concentration and less skill IMHO. I think a 997 offers a 'more rewarding experience' as a result without us having to debate endlessly about which is the 'better car' because then we are scuppered by the issue of 'better for WHOM'...
Regarding the article, I hear what you say and, yes, we'll have to agree to disagree on that issue.
Regarding rennteamers' perceived prejudice, I must say I am still adamant that it's grossly unfair to generalise about what people may have written in the past. You can either generalise about all of us or not. I myself have not knowingly been rude about the Cayman so I would certainly hope you wouldn't include me in your generalisation. But then we're all being tarred with the same brush.
Quote:
toplad said:
DreamCar I don't know why I'm going to bother, but you imply the Cayman is just Boxster with a fixed roof and this doesn't offer any kind of benefit over the Boxster,
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
The AMS test was not very helpful. In fact its a rather misleading comparison and something they should be ashamed of publishing. Porsche has posited that the Cayman is one their sportiest handling cars while a stock suspension 997 is certainly not.
Better would have been to compare a PCCB equipped Cayman S against a base 997 Carrera equipped with the optional Sport Suspension and LSD ..or at least PCCB that removes some unsprung weight and makes for crisper turn in.
The 997 suspension is soft, the Cayman S suspension is not. End of story. A useless, almost Motor Trend like comparo by AMS. Shame on them.
Quote:
toplad said:
I knew I shouldn't have bothered with you.
Maybe if you weren't such a [beep] driver you'd be able to tell the difference.
Quote:
VGA18 said:
I would go for a Cayman S over a 997 (Not S). IMO there is not a such huge difference for the performance of the cars and Cayman S looks so wild.
But of course Carrera S a different story...
Quote:
dreamcar said:Quote:
VGA18 said:
I would go for a Cayman S over a 997 (Not S). IMO there is not a such huge difference for the performance of the cars and Cayman S looks so wild.
But of course Carrera S a different story...
Don't tell toplad, but so would I, not for the looks as much as the drive...
Apr 30, 2007 10:13:24 AM
Quote:
Jeannot said:
The weight distribution is the key to the quicker and more nimble steering of the Boxster and the Cayman not suspension
=> Funny, because I much prefer the 911 weight distribution.
It's MORE FUN. I had a boxster. Yes it is easier and quicker...but it does not communicate the same feeling that you *are*about*to*be*too*fast* that the 911 does.
Also, unless they fit a LSD to the boxster/cayman, there is no way back for me...I just love the traction of the 911...let alone the C4 I drive now.
A hairpin exit on the wet with a boxster/cayman is just a frustrating experience...
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Those that pout that the steering on a Cayman is better than a 997 might want to strengthen their limpy wrists and focus on driving more instead of playing with their cellphone, makeup, Cayman passenger etc..
Quote:
Jeannot said:
The weight distribution is the key to the quicker and more nimble steering of the Boxster and the Cayman not suspension
=> Funny, because I much prefer the 911 weight distribution.
It's MORE FUN. I had a boxster. Yes it is easier and quicker...but it does not communicate the same feeling that you *are*about*to*be*too*fast* that the 911 does.
Also, unless they fit a LSD to the boxster/cayman, there is no way back for me...I just love the traction of the 911...let alone the C4 I drive now.
A hairpin exit on the wet with a boxster/cayman is just a frustrating experience...