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    Re: Performance upgrades on a 997 S ?

    Quote:
    Gnil said:

    I have a K&N filter..should I be worried ?




    Only if you plan to keep your car for a while . Lol

    Why do you think K&N put a big warning on the filter not to use it when it's raining, or at lower outdoor temperatures and to clean and oil the wretched thing every other week?


    A clean, freshly oiled filter is ~30% efficiency (at best) which means that 70% of air borne dirt(@3 microns or smaller) goes past it .And it gets progressively worse as the filter surfaces get coated with dirt .
    A paper filter on the other hand starts at ~85 -90% efficiency and gets BETTER , the dirtier it gets .

    Use the oiled filter for an afternoon at the track if you really need an extra 3-5 hp , but not on a daily driver .

    Do a web search on OIL SLUDGE and you'll see what can end up in your engine .

    Re: Performance upgrades on a 997 S ?

    I am really perplexed by 'frayed' comments,

    On the F77 package as reviewed in Excellence: the owner's page of report noted 10[I think--using memory]-20ft-lbs over the 'range', and an average of 8 bhp over the range [by the way the dyno must have been oddly set up, as bhp is torque times revs, and bhp % increases must be the same as torque % increases].

    More importantly, the owner reported decreased lap times of 2.5 sec in a near 2 min lap, under less than ideal comparative conditions. Also, top speed over straights [one given] of 4mph over 1000ft. Editor Stout reports that the modified 3.8S did not show its normal shortness of breath as highest revs of 6-7K are approached. Overall, he and the owner were very happy with the results. Your reporting, 'frayed' was incomplete and biased against after- market items.

    My experience with Acura CL-S and TL-S has been very favourable: I use a 1/2 km of road signs/markers, rolling start and red-line each gear, recording the speed as one passes the final marker. The speeds are very reproducable and not sensitive to minor changes in gear shifts [speed and revs]. My other test is 70-100mph, in the lowest gear possible with no change (typically this means circa 4500/5000 to 6000 rpm): accelerate gently to 70, floor it as the timer is started [by a light companion], and stop the timer as 100mph is reached. Again not very sensitive to minor variations in technique etc. I had significant increases is final speeds 5mph with the Comptech headers/exhaust on the CL-S------and in an informal drag race, my new TL-S 6 speed [more basic power, less trans friction]was only equal in acceleration to my old and now hotter CL-S Auto!

    I have just added 'Science of Speed' headers and exhaust [Cantrell and ARK]to my 10 year old NSX Auto-Stik [as its birthday present], and its 70-100mph time is 6.5 sec, only 0.5 slower than my beautiful and strong C2 997. I expected over a second difference, given the power difference still expected in these 2 cars.......The NSX sounds quite splendid now, as in standard form the exhaust-note was not giving an appropriate sound for such a lovely motor.

    Returing to the F77, remember that the ECU tuning was done by Champion, and the owner said he WANTED improved lap-times----the engine may have been tuned for increase at the mid-upper revs, and not max power. Normally, headers will give largest increases at max revs, and even slight losses at lower revs...

    Finally, I have installed EVOMS headers and exhaust on the C2: the engine at 10,000 miles already spun to 7K rpm with enthusiasm (one reason I like the 3.6 over the 3.8), and its 4-7K rpm willingness to rev has further improved, with an oustanding sound-----before it was just loud, now it has character.

    I am sorry that your experiences have been so different 'frayed'.

    Cheers

    KiwiCanuck

    Re: Performance upgrades on a 997 S ?

    I'll have to look at the article again, as I do recall a bump in tq through the midrange but don't recall a 20 ft lb bump through any sort of "range".

    Quite obviously there was no 20 lb ft bump anywhere near peak hp.

    Anyway, I do recall that the owner was pissed after he dyno'd the car b/c it didn't come even remotely close to its specs. He was ready to return it and demand his money back. Fact is, on the dyno it did NOT perform as advertised.

    Champion points to the 'ram air effect' and the fact that the dyno does not report hp at speed b/c dynos are static, but I find this highly suspect. . . an excuse. Porsche's own published specs based on extrapolation of measured positive pressure on the 996 GT3 RS and the 997 GT3/RS do not support the claims made by champion.

    The owner did find a drop in laptimes. However, I SERIOUSLY doubt that the hp/tq bump, even at 20 lb ft somewhere in the midrange is the reason this fella dropped a few seconds. In my experience, there is more variation track day to track day due to a wide range of factors (tire choice, tire condition, tire pressure, track conditions, track temperature, hydtration/concentration levels etc etc). There is no way I would take away from that editorial of an amateur driver in non controlled testing that the F77 engine package was causally linked to the better lap times.

    However, it sure made the owner happy, justifying the cash outlay and damage to his engine warranty. In the end, that's what counts I suppose.

    I've modded multiple cars I've owned, including a fully sorted track car that really is not street drivable. My point is this:

    Your money is best spent elsewhere on a 997S other than motor. And, even if you get the hp you desire, it is tough to 'feel' other than the 'feel' drivers' invent to feel good about the rather large cash outlay.

    Believe what you will; I no longer own a 997 Carrera/S, and mods on my GT3 will not include anything in the drivetrain other than a ltw fly.

    Re: Performance upgrades on a 997 S ?

    Quote:
    stom_m3 said:

    Hi Frayed,

    I agree with you about the whole BMW header thing. Coming from the E36 M3 as well, the headers were no place to find power for the E36 M3. That said, I was one of the Beta testers for the JC cam kit and was able to gain 43rwhp. Of course, that's not without changing cams, intake manifold, MAF, Fuel injectors, removing the engine fan, remap of the ECU, Cold air intake and removing the dsc butterfly from the intake.

    I do believe it's possible to find hp but it might not be very easy to get as you can see I had to go to great length to stay NA but still gain a 20% increase in power for the M3. In the end, I'm all for people exploring different ways to find power. On the cayman forum, they've been able to find 38rwhp and +40ftlbs with full exhaust, intake and ecu. I'm hoping that people get curious enough to unlock some hp from the 997S. Just my .02.

    steve



    I missed this post. Hey stom, I used to moderate the E36 M3 section over at bf.com and remember your dynos and the great luck you had with the Jim C cam kit.

    That kit is indeed proven, though results to vary. (as a sidenote, I'm friends with Jim C and Josh). But the depth of engineering that went into the kit, and the number of components changed is beyond the F77 kit. The corollary to the Jim C cam kit is the factory X51 package, not the intake/exhaust/ECU package from Champion.

    Of course, all IMHO.
    --------------------

    To me, the thought that the aftermarket outdid Porsche's X51 package for less money, w/o cracking the head, and only with intake/exhaust/ECU is absurd. But hey, to each his own. . . what is it they say about fool and his money.

    Re: Performance upgrades on a 997 S ?

    Frayed -
    I do not think you need to refer to folks who seek performance via the aftermarket as 'fools'.

    Your experience has obviously been negative for one reason or another.
    All that proves is that we should not buy our speed gear from you.
    Seems like excellent advice.

    You sound like the famous SNL character 'Fred Garvin - Male Prostitute.'
    To quote him 'Woman don't have orgasms. I know, I have been with a lot of woman.'

    Thanks for your advice anyway. Some of us will proceed without your blessing if that's OK.

    Re: Performance upgrades on a 997 S ?

    Quote:
    Leawood911 said:
    Frayed -
    I do not think you need to refer to folks who seek performance via the aftermarket as 'fools'.

    Your experience has obviously been negative for one reason or another.
    All that proves is that we should not buy our speed gear from you.
    Seems like excellent advice.

    You sound like the famous SNL character 'Fred Garvin - Male Prostitute.'
    To quote him 'Woman don't have orgasms. I know, I have been with a lot of woman.'

    Thanks for your advice anyway. Some of us will proceed without your blessing if that's OK.




    Leawood, I ask that you not put words in my mouth. You've taken my comment completely out of context. My 'fool' comment is meant to address those who believe the claims of the aftermarket tuners w/o independent validation of those claims. The aftermarket is notorious for stretching the truth, sometimes to absurd proportions. A fool is one who believes such claims blindly.

    Also, I don't sell speed gear, nor do I have an interest in having people seek my blessing.

     
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