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    997 Prophecy

    Just a small prediction that Porsche is under stating performance numbers on new 997 not to hurt current 996 sales. The previously released numbers were 355 hp fpr base 997 and 380 for 997 S. They would have to insane to keep the base model the same hp. Ive been to several porsche dealers in the country and they have very big 996 inventories(no to mention boxters as well). They should have cut back production long time ago to help dealers. They should have added solid rear wing like older models and also made front and rear arches a drop wider. Car is way to expensive to look like a base car.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    mmm208 said:
    The previously released numbers were 355 hp fpr base 997 and 380 for 997 S.



    I think Porsche's public relations people would be surprised to hear that they had "previously released" higher horse power figures for these models.

    Or do you have copies of the press release to help them remember?

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    mmm208 said:
    Just a small prediction that Porsche is under stating performance numbers on new 997 not to hurt current 996 sales. The previously released numbers were 355 hp fpr base 997 and 380 for 997 S. They would have to insane to keep the base model the same hp. Ive been to several porsche dealers in the country and they have very big 996 inventories(no to mention boxters as well). They should have cut back production long time ago to help dealers. They should have added solid rear wing like older models and also made front and rear arches a drop wider. Car is way to expensive to look like a base car.



    You're not good at prophecy, try something else for a living.
    I'm not sure I understand you but I'm still trying hard, honestly.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    mmm208 said:
    Just a small prediction that Porsche is under stating performance numbers on new 997 not to hurt current 996 sales. The previously released numbers were 355 hp fpr base 997 and 380 for 997 S. They would have to insane to keep the base model the same hp. Ive been to several porsche dealers in the country and they have very big 996 inventories(no to mention boxters as well). They should have cut back production long time ago to help dealers. They should have added solid rear wing like older models and also made front and rear arches a drop wider. Car is way to expensive to look like a base car.



    You're not good at prophecy, try something else for a living.
    I'm not sure I understand you but I'm still trying hard, honestly.



    I think M&M was trying to say that it was Porsche's intention to help boost sales of the current 996s by understating the current model's power figures. I know it hasn't been publically released, but the information from a few months ago indicated that the base 997 would have at least 340 HP, with the Carrera S receiving over 360, if I'm not mistaken. You can see that Porsche has seriously understated the power figures by simply looking at the Nordschleife ring times. A heavier car, lacking 60 HP completes the 20 km lap in only 5 seconds more than the current 911 Turbo. Suspension upgrades by themselves don't do that. I hope I cleared it up for you RC

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    I think Porsche's public relations people would be surprised to hear that they had "previously released" higher horse power figures for these models.

    Or do you have copies of the press release to help them remember?

    I dont think EVO magazine pulls numbers out of thin air!!!

    You seem to be getting emotional. Relax , its just a car.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    EVO is just guessing.

    As are we sometimes.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    mmm208 said:
    I think Porsche's public relations people would be surprised to hear that they had "previously released" higher horse power figures for these models.

    Or do you have copies of the press release to help them remember?

    I dont think EVO magazine pulls numbers out of thin air!!!

    You seem to be getting emotional. Relax , its just a car.



    MmM, EVO magazine DOES pull magazine out of thin air, if you count everything but official Porsche figures as thin air, of course. They get their figures the same way as everybody else - from informants. Don't worry about RC being emotional. He never is, unless you remind him of selling his red Turbo. Although, when I think about it, I also get emotional at the thought of selling a supercar to get a sedan. If it were me, RC, I'd rather sell my wife and kid and buy a Carrera GT on top of the Turbo.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    I think M&M was trying to say that it was Porsche's intention to help boost sales of the current 996s by understating the current model's power figures.



    That's a hell of a compliment to Porsche's engine developers, to imply that they are so good that they could afford to "understate" the power output of their engines by such a margin. Mostly you just read complaints of car manufacturers overstating their performance figures.

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    You can see that Porsche has seriously understated the power figures by simply looking at the Nordschleife ring times. A heavier car, lacking 60 HP completes the 20 km lap in only 5 seconds more than the current 911 Turbo.



    Since that lap time started circulating before Porsche released any information on the 997, it isn't even an "official" figure. Can you be so sure that it is based on fact?

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    fritz said:

    Since that lap time started circulating before Porsche released any information on the 997, it isn't even an "official" figure. Can you be so sure that it is based on fact?




    I've read several times in this forum that the figure of that lap time is for shure.

    Once again I wonder if it was done in a standard 977S (the one first costumers will have -with no future powerkits or with less weigth-) and if with regular petrol and tires.

    If it really was that way, the chassis, gearbox and susspensions of the car have to be outstanding ............if they are not that fantastic, I simply, can't understand it

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    Byron said:
    I've read several times in this forum that the figure of that lap time is for shure.





    So, if a claim is repeated often enough, it automatically becomes true? Interesting concept.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    ...... I'd rather sell my wife and kid and buy a Carrera GT on top of the Turbo.



    Your wife and kid would surely be flattered to read that you think you'd get so much for them.

    On second thoughts, maybe you'd better not show them your post.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Byron said:
    I've read several times in this forum that the figure of that lap time is for shure.





    So, if a claim is repeated often enough, it automatically becomes true? Interesting concept.



    Absolutely not, of course. Maybe I don't express myself with the sufficient accuracy. I was just wondering (without, in principle, putting in doubt what other members of the forum said) how this could be achieved with the given "official" power of the car's engine (355 HP), and considering other improvements in the car, not so easly reflected in a number.

    In any case, we all know that "miracles" are really rare.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    Byron said:
    I was just wondering how this could be achieved with the given "official" power of the car's engine (355 HP), and considering other improvements in the car, not so easly reflected in a number.




    Exactly my thinking, and that's why you have to think about the validity of the lap time. Especially since the information was not credited to any named source, as far as I am aware......

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    I know it hasn't been publically released, but the information from a few months ago indicated that the base 997 would have at least 340 HP, with the Carrera S receiving over 360, if I'm not mistaken. You can see that Porsche has seriously understated the power figures by simply looking at the Nordschleife ring times. A heavier car, lacking 60 HP completes the 20 km lap in only 5 seconds more than the current 911 Turbo. Suspension upgrades by themselves don't do that. I hope I cleared it up for you RC



    1. Porsche hasn't released ANY information regarding the 997 power figures before May 11th. Period.
    2. The first GT3 (MK I) with "official" 360 HP (a lot of people know that most cars had around 345-350 HP!) did the Nuerburgring Nordschleife in 8 min. 03 seconds (the 7:57 time is the "official" time done by Walter Röhrl on a closed circuit).
    So I think you're missing a lot of facts and you're also mixing up a few things.
    3. On the paper, the 997 S is only around 55 kg heavier than the 996 C2. It is 25 kg lighter than the current 996 C2 Cab.
    And it is 70(!) kg lighter than the C4S. If you're checking the road tests done by various car magazines in the past, you'll find out soon that there is almost no dramatic performance difference between these cars.
    4. As far as I heard, the 997 S has done that "fantastic" Nordschleife time with the 20 mm suspension/LSD and PSM turned off.

    For me, the 997 Carrera and even the 997 S are "entry-level" 911 models. If somebody feels the need for more power or a better track setup, the 997 GT3 is rumored to be available too in the near future. Not to speak about the 997 Turbo and a possible 997 GT2 and even 997 GT1.
    Is it about money and a good value? Well, look what Ferrari is charging for the 360 Modena, you pay mostly for the looks and not performance.

    What did you expect? A gift from Porsche, a 911 with 400 HP for 50000 bucks?
    They did a clever thing by offering a 997 S and at the same time keeping the price for the "base model" almost the same. People who barely can afford a 911, can go for the 997 Carrera and others can choose the 997 S or even the more "advanced" models like GT3, Turbo and GT2. This strategy sounds perfectly right to me.
    The whole discussion reminds me a little bit of the time of the 996 introduction. The 996 got 14 HP more than the 993 and it blew it off the street anytime performance-wise.

    Regarding wings and spoilers and that stuff: there is the Exclusive department, there is Tequipment and there will be the GT3, maybe GT2/GT1 and the Turbo. So what's the problem?

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    RC said:

    4. As far as I heard, the 997 S has done that "fantastic" Nordschleife time with the 20 mm suspension/LSD and PSM turned off.

    For me, the 997 Carrera and even the 997 S are "entry-level" 911 models. If somebody feels the need for more power or a better track setup, the 997 GT3 is rumored to be available too in the near future. Not to speak about the 997 Turbo and a possible 997 GT2 and even 997 GT1.
    Is it about money and a good value? Well, look what Ferrari is charging for the 360 Modena, you pay mostly for the looks and not performance.

    What did you expect? A gift from Porsche, a 911 with 400 HP for 50000 bucks?
    They did a clever thing by offering a 997 S and at the same time keeping the price for the "base model" almost the same. People who barely can afford a 911, can go for the 997 Carrera and others can choose the 997 S or even the more "advanced" models like GT3, Turbo and GT2. This strategy sounds perfectly right to me.
    The whole discussion reminds me a little bit of the time of the 996 introduction. The 996 got 14 HP more than the 993 and it blew it off the street anytime performance-wise.

    Regarding wings and spoilers and that stuff: there is the Exclusive department, there is Tequipment and there will be the GT3, maybe GT2/GT1 and the Turbo. So what's the problem?




    Can't agree more. I sincerely think that a 997S is a more than reasonable proposition from Porsche (just take a 996 an add some extras, and you'll realize that they are giving more for almost the same price).

    As previously said, "miracles" are rare, so If someone wants an increased figure in HP should go to another price tag (If Ferrari, a "Posing" incredibly increased tag).

    I feel that the performance of the 997S with sportive susspension and correctly adjusted, will surprise to all of us.

    I'd like so much to have an available evolution of the 997S (GT3, Turbo, GT1 ...) but life is life, and there are no shortcuts. We will have to wait...........

    In any case, waiting with a 997S will be much, much more sweet! :

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    .

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    @ fritz

    ... did we ever get any information from you ... what's the reason you are attending this forum ... sarcasm is nice from time to time ... but as a principle it's quite boring ... ?!

    So please don't get me wrong ... but it would be great to hear something substantial from you ... considering that you seem to have a strong technical background ... just give it a try ...

    Greetz

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Understand that im not attacking here. Im just voicing my opinion. Im the owner of several porches and i loved them all. I never bought a base car 911 just because it didnt offer value. I just dont understand why the base car has to always seem like its missing something whethet it be so so looks or poor performance for its price range.

    The 911 base car never appealed to me. Ive always had a turbo version. It would be nice to have a 380-400hp base version with a wing and with nice 19 inch wheels etc for the base price. Why do i have to spend 120-130 for the turbo? The base car should very fast and the turbo should be outrageous. The base car should be very wide , and the turbo extremly wide. I also think the whole problem with the 996 was that the rear and front fenders had too much overhang. took away from the old look. The 993 was the last 911 to have shorter overhang and i think thats what made it look better. I thought 997 should have adressed that issue.

    How much would a wing (say like the gt2) cost to put on 997 base. Not much, then why not.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    RC said:The 996 got 14 HP more than the 993 and it blew it off the street anytime performance-wise.



    The reason for the better performance of the 996 is largely due to far better gearing of the transmission. The 993 tranny has very tall gears that are very widely spaced - a real shame. The US version is even worse in this respect (to meet fuel consumption requirements). This is not widely discussed...

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Carlos, thank you very much for the figures!

    As I already said, I do not doubt about oppinions in this forum.

    Not the moment to discuss, but the moment to welcome a new CARRERA, that, with an extremely similar price, performs much better!

    What's wrong then?

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    Rookie said:
    @ fritz

    ... did we ever get any information from you ... what's the reason you are attending this forum ... sarcasm is nice from time to time ... but as a principle it's quite boring ... ?!



    I have to disagree here. Sarcams aside, I for one have learnt many things, lots of it technical in nature, form fritz's posts.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Very interesting data, Carlos.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    Rookie said:
    @ fritz

    ... did we ever get any information from you ... what's the reason you are attending this forum ... sarcasm is nice from time to time ... but as a principle it's quite boring ... ?!

    So please don't get me wrong ... but it would be great to hear something substantial from you ... considering that you seem to have a strong technical background ... just give it a try ...

    Greetz



    Rookie, sarcasm is a strong part of german culture. You should know that. I don't say I like it but it is much more civilized(and even much more entertaining) than insults and bad language.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Very interesting data, Carlos.



    Credit goes to Atlantis, who posted the article from which it came from

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    997 GT1 meaning back to Le Mans?

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    Jean said:
    997 GT1 meaning back to Le Mans?



    Oh please Porsche , If your reading this, please go back to racing .....
    Yes , Yes I know you do the GT 3 cup thingy but a nice Gt1 at maybe ,,,oh , lets say Le Mans that would be nice too!

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    Quote:
    Rookie said:
    ... did we ever get any information from you ... what's the reason you are attending this forum ... sarcasm is nice from time to time ... but as a principle it's quite boring ... ?!

    ... but it would be great to hear something substantial from you ... considering that you seem to have a strong technical background ...



    Hi Rookie,

    I don't quite know how to start answering your post, so I'll just address your points in sequence:

    - I did not realise that it was a pre-requisite for posting on this site that one provides "information". This could rule out most people from posting, because they may be looking for information, but are not in a position to provide any.

    - If you start expecting people to justify attending this forum, then you are quite likely to scare off a few potential posters.

    However, I'm not sensitive, so I'm quite happy to tell you that my primary reason for being here is because I've been a car enthusiast since I was a kid, and enjoy reading the views of like-minded (and non-like-minded) people.
    A secondary reason is because I'm involved with the auto industry in my work, so I also look upon reading the views expressed here by other car nuts as my own personal low-level market research. (Note the word "personal" - I'm certainly not "lurking" professionally on behalf of any company or employer!).
    This involvement has a down-side, because it means that I could sometimes have "information" relating to other members' questions or posts, but cannot get involved for ethical or confidentiality reasons. Since I prefer participating to just spectating (= lurking"), I confess that I often find myself commenting on other members' posts without being able to permit myself to add anything of substance. Some of these comments may sometimes seem blunt, possibly a manifestation of my frustration at not being able to "climb into" a subject as I would like to.

    - Re "sarcasm": True sarcasm involves an element of malice. I have not written anything malicious to or about any member of this forum, with the possible exception of Nick Berry, and Nick would be extremely disappointed if he did not succeed in provoking that kind of reaction from other posters on rennteam.com. He would look upon it as a sign of failure in his vocation.
    I do often find myself adding my 2 cents in a manner intended to be "witty", and peppered with emoticons to signal this intent. If this doesn't come across, hell, I can live with it. Life's too short to take something intended by most of us to be a leisure-time diversion too seriously!

    Nichts zum ungut!

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    fritz, you don't have to justify yourself.
    I know how frustrating it must be to know the "truth" and not be able to talk about it.
    As much as we love gossip and rumors, we sometimes have accurate information we cannot post for several reasons. There is nothing more frustrating to watch people talk about something and not be able to comment.

    Re: 997 Prophecy

    @ fritz

    ... i think i got your point now ... hope it didn't offend you too much ... wasn't my best day ...

    Keep it up ...

    Greetz

     
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