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    Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Hi Guys,

    I have had my 997 TT TIP since a month now and have already done 5,000 KM. I ran it in properly, drive it slowly until oil is warm and generally do everything to treat the car very well.

    I have taken it on the highways to test its performance. My points (and disappointments) are:

    -Acceleration 0-100km/h is very good, but

    -After you are in 3rd gear (and higher), acceleration is no good for a proper sports car. This is supposed to be the icon of THE German Sports car manufacturer ? You gotta be kidding !!! It is a disgrace to say the least. I hate BMWs, but for example a BMW M6 has basically the same acceleration 0-200km/h than the 997 TT and is probably faster above 200km/h. This is a full-blown 4-seater with a N/A engine, even costs 30,000 EUROS less, and has the same or better performance than THE German Sportscar ??? Come on...

    I am not even talking about F430s, Z06s, Lambos, etc...

    -Even not comparing the 997TT to any other car, it just does not feel really fast.

    -Above 250km/h acceleration is almost non-existant.

    I did check the times of my car, and yes it does 0-200km/h in 12.2 secs, so there is nothing wrong with it. It is just underpowered for what it is supposed to be.

    Other negative points:

    -There is very well a serious turbo lag, maybe not as bad as on earlier models, but still way too much lag.

    -Exhaust sound is ridiculous. But that has been discussed already intensively..

    -Sound system is a total joke. The worst I have ever heard on any car costing more than 25,000 EUROS.

    -Quality control apparently seem to have reached below Mercedes standards:
    1. On delivery, interior lighting did not work at all. Had to go back to Porsche to have it fixed.
    2. Unidentifiable noise from the rear seats, Porsche has yet to find a solution.
    3. Unidentifiable noise from the rear axle, Porsche has yet to find a solution.
    4. Stitching of leather on drivers seat has several defaults, leather on passenger seat as well.
    5. Drivers side window squeaking when putting it down. Making wind noise at speeds above 180km/h

    And a few other defaults, all since delivery.

    Where is the build quality of earlier Porsches ???

    I always thought Wedeking was doing a good job at Porsche, but now he seems to me like a cousin of Schrempp...

    In my opinion, the car is underpowered by at least 100hp. I know there are tuners out there who make the car faster, but the point here is that it should be much faster in its original state.

    And quality control should be MUCH better.

    What do you guys think ? Am I wrong, or do you see my point ?

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    I understand your point but, maybe you just bought wrong car

    My guess is also that RC will not agree with most of your remarks.

    Did you test drive manual version of 997 turbo?

    Also, as far as we all know 997 turbo(in both version TIP and manual) is as fast as F430 or Gallardo till 300km/h...

    You need something that much faster then 997 turbo TIP?

    Hmm... RUF RT12 is a nice solution as well as Ferrari 599GTB.

    Honestly, I am really sorry that you are that much dissapointed with 997 turbo TIP.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Sounds like you got a lemon, haven't heard of any quality control complaints for the TT to the extent of what you just mentioned...

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    Hi Guys,

    I have had my 997 TT TIP since a month now and have already done 5,000 KM. I ran it in properly, drive it slowly until oil is warm and generally do everything to treat the car very well.

    I have taken it on the highways to test its performance. My points (and disappointments) are:

    -Acceleration 0-100km/h is very good, but

    -After you are in 3rd gear (and higher), acceleration is no good for a proper sports car. This is supposed to be the icon of THE German Sports car manufacturer ? You gotta be kidding !!! It is a disgrace to say the least. I hate BMWs, but for example a BMW M6 has basically the same acceleration 0-200km/h than the 997 TT and is probably faster above 200km/h. This is a full-blown 4-seater with a N/A engine, even costs 30,000 EUROS less, and has the same or better performance than THE German Sportscar ??? Come on...

    I am not even talking about F430s, Z06s, Lambos, etc...

    -Even not comparing the 997TT to any other car, it just does not feel really fast.

    -Above 250km/h acceleration is almost non-existant.

    I did check the times of my car, and yes it does 0-200km/h in 12.2 secs, so there is nothing wrong with it. It is just underpowered for what it is supposed to be.

    Other negative points:

    -There is very well a serious turbo lag, maybe not as bad as on earlier models, but still way too much lag.

    -Exhaust sound is ridiculous. But that has been discussed already intensively..

    -Sound system is a total joke. The worst I have ever heard on any car costing more than 25,000 EUROS.

    -Quality control apparently seem to have reached below Mercedes standards:
    1. On delivery, interior lighting did not work at all. Had to go back to Porsche to have it fixed.
    2. Unidentifiable noise from the rear seats, Porsche has yet to find a solution.
    3. Unidentifiable noise from the rear axle, Porsche has yet to find a solution.
    4. Stitching of leather on drivers seat has several defaults, leather on passenger seat as well.
    5. Drivers side window squeaking when putting it down. Making wind noise at speeds above 180km/h

    And a few other defaults, all since delivery.

    Where is the build quality of earlier Porsches ???

    I always thought Wedeking was doing a good job at Porsche, but now he seems to me like a cousin of Schrempp...

    In my opinion, the car is underpowered by at least 100hp. I know there are tuners out there who make the car faster, but the point here is that it should be much faster in its original state.

    And quality control should be MUCH better.

    What do you guys think ? Am I wrong, or do you see my point ?



    So, you're trolling this board too?

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    as far as the Gallardo is concerned, the Turbo is faster and here's the video

    http://www.gt3000.com/download.php?file=997turbo.wmv

    from the videos I've seen so far, there is a thread of a member with some youtube videos, I have to admit that after 4th gear the acceleration seems to be less powerful to the point that it made feel a bit disappointed maybe

    BUT when you see how faster the Turbo is from the Gallardo it makes you realise that it's the ferocity with which the car pulls til 4th gear that makes you feel that the rest 2 gears don't have so much power left...at least that's the assumption I made...in any case, it's fast enough for me

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    aah986 said: So, you're trolling this board too?



    With all due respect to you Sir, I think that comment is really uncalled for. This poor guy is expressing his disappointment and frustration. He needs a sympathetic ear from us not wry comments like this. If you have a 997TT of your own and resent criticism of the car you currently enjoy, please don't take his comments personally. We all have different hopes/expectations of a car.

    LukasLuis, I hope you find a solution to your difficulty. It seems to me that you may need to exchange your 997TT for something more suited to your needs. Perhaps a F599/F430? An LP640? 997GT2? (when it comes out)

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Quote:
    aah986 said: So, you're trolling this board too?



    Perhaps a F599/F430? An LP640? 997GT2? (when it comes out)



    Or perhaps an Enzo or Veyron, they would suit your needs too.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    @easy_rider911: Well said, thanks for the support.

    I would love to love my 997TT, but I simply cant, because of the issues above. I am not really into Ferraris, Lambos etc. Perhaps when the 997TTS comes out I will be happier with the performance. And if they improve build-quality and quality-control.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    The performance of the Veyron would definitely suit me..;-)

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:

    I always thought Wedeking was doing a good job at Porsche, but now he seems to me like a cousin of Schrempp...




    that's funny.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    Hi Guys,

    I have had my 997 TT TIP since a month now and have already done 5,000 KM. I ran it in properly, drive it slowly until oil is warm and generally do everything to treat the car very well.

    I have taken it on the highways to test its performance. My points (and disappointments) are:

    -Acceleration 0-100km/h is very good, but

    -After you are in 3rd gear (and higher), acceleration is no good for a proper sports car. This is supposed to be the icon of THE German Sports car manufacturer ? You gotta be kidding !!! It is a disgrace to say the least. I hate BMWs, but for example a BMW M6 has basically the same acceleration 0-200km/h than the 997 TT and is probably faster above 200km/h. This is a full-blown 4-seater with a N/A engine, even costs 30,000 EUROS less, and has the same or better performance than THE German Sportscar ??? Come on...

    I am not even talking about F430s, Z06s, Lambos, etc...

    -Even not comparing the 997TT to any other car, it just does not feel really fast.

    -Above 250km/h acceleration is almost non-existant.

    I did check the times of my car, and yes it does 0-200km/h in 12.2 secs, so there is nothing wrong with it. It is just underpowered for what it is supposed to be.

    Other negative points:

    -There is very well a serious turbo lag, maybe not as bad as on earlier models, but still way too much lag.

    -Exhaust sound is ridiculous. But that has been discussed already intensively..

    -Sound system is a total joke. The worst I have ever heard on any car costing more than 25,000 EUROS.

    -Quality control apparently seem to have reached below Mercedes standards:
    1. On delivery, interior lighting did not work at all. Had to go back to Porsche to have it fixed.
    2. Unidentifiable noise from the rear seats, Porsche has yet to find a solution.
    3. Unidentifiable noise from the rear axle, Porsche has yet to find a solution.
    4. Stitching of leather on drivers seat has several defaults, leather on passenger seat as well.
    5. Drivers side window squeaking when putting it down. Making wind noise at speeds above 180km/h

    And a few other defaults, all since delivery.

    Where is the build quality of earlier Porsches ???

    I always thought Wedeking was doing a good job at Porsche, but now he seems to me like a cousin of Schrempp...

    In my opinion, the car is underpowered by at least 100hp. I know there are tuners out there who make the car faster, but the point here is that it should be much faster in its original state.

    And quality control should be MUCH better.

    What do you guys think ? Am I wrong, or do you see my point ?



    If you're only looking for straight-line performance, then perhaps you should try the SL65. It's brutally fast. Also, the 997TT is almost 10 seconds faster to 300 km/h than the M6.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Know at least 3 colleagues who traded-in their early 997TTs b/c of similar complaints/disappointments....each since got 599 (which they had prev spec'd)...and I haven't heard of any performance/feel/quality disappointments w/599 in early driving/daily use w/admittedly small sample size....

    Interesting early comparo I keep hearing from owners is that 599 offers a unique blend: raw performance that few street-legal cars on planet can match (w/no turbo lag BS and great aural theatrics), yet 599 has civility/ground clearance/visibility/excellent damping vs bumpy roads/smooth tranny in auto mode/fuel tank cap/trunk space/traction/Bluetooth, etc for daily use (even in rain) in dense urban traffic

    Arguably, 997TT's only (but very important) advantage over 599 is superior passive safety. Perhaps P will fix some of 997TT's issues w/eventual PK, PDK and PSE options...but what will that upgraded 997TT cost, esp when factoring in P's legendary one-yr deprec on fully loaded cars??? Tough cost comparo, as a fully loaded $340K 599 has $0 one-yr deprec in US....and prob superior resale value in Germany/UK, too....perhaps counter-intuitively making the 599 the frugal sportscar buyers' car of choice...

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    If you look at published times from several mags that compare the Z06 - Gallardo - M6 - 997TT u see the TT pulls frkkn stronger after 150mph. But it does have the quieter engine and some sloppy wind noise issues that might make it
    feel less dramatic.

    Hey VK, in a Viper GTS ( the coupe) you can have the side windows down at 140mph and still smoke a cigar, there is very little buffeting inside the cabin at speed. Can you do that in a 599?????

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    The performance of the Veyron would definitely suit me..;-)


    I thinck a GT2 (2wheeldrive) or a GT3 would give you more atisfaction. I think the TT is too smooth for you. The GT2 and GT3 give more a real "driversfeel" , i think you're not missing real speed , but the "feeling" of going flat out.
    IMHO the TT is too good and for that too softfeeling...

    That's the reason why i'd never buy a 4-wheeldriven porsche.
    E.g: I had a 993 targa before, the difference in "speedfeeling" and driverscarfeeling with the beautiful 993 4S is eeeeeeeeeeenormouuuuuuus. They look like two different cars.
    I suppose the GT2 would be your best choice.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Buy a 2007 Z06,It has all the power at low end or top end.Its comfortable and can be used as a daily driver if need be. It doesn't have the TT looks but it Has serious power.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    If you look at published times from several mags that compare the Z06 - Gallardo - M6 - 997TT u see the TT pulls frkkn stronger after 150mph. But it does have the quieter engine and some sloppy wind noise issues that might make it
    feel less dramatic.





    All published times I've seen show the P car losing its advantage after 120mph to the cars it was compared to.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Keep in mind the 997TT base price is $120,000. Of course with a modicum of options it will price out close to $135,000-$140,000. When compared to the Ferrari and Gallardo it is the (dare I write it?) the "cheap mass produced premium sport car".

    It is very similar to the comparison of the Corvette and 997TT. The Corvette Z06 will perform as well if not better than the 997TT for a hell of a lot less in money.

    Look at this way, the 997TT is the Corvette in the upper class sport car world. Don't expect more than what you paid for.

    My advice is try the gallardo or 430. The excitement of driving these cars compared to the 997TT is like night and day. Of course, that is why you will pay a lot more for them.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    The 997TT can become 599 fast with an ECU flash. I ran even with a Yamaha R6 on the highway from 60-1xx mph stock. With the ECU (adds roughly 80-100 hp) flashed, the car will be a serious monster for very little additional $$$. Granted, there is the possibility of warranty issues, but you could probably buy 2 more spare 997TTs for the market price of the 599.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Quote:
    aah986 said: So, you're trolling this board too?



    With all due respect to you Sir, I think that comment is really uncalled for. This poor guy is expressing his disappointment and frustration. He needs a sympathetic ear from us not wry comments like this. If you have a 997TT of your own and resent criticism of the car you currently enjoy, please don't take his comments personally. We all have different hopes/expectations of a car.

    LukasLuis, I hope you find a solution to your difficulty. It seems to me that you may need to exchange your 997TT for something more suited to your needs. Perhaps a F599/F430? An LP640? 997GT2? (when it comes out)


    I will not believe for one minute that someone can be so unlucky to have all these problems in the same car. Sorry, I don't buy it .

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    I am a member on a few car forums, and so far I know 3 people who have already sold their 997 Turbo's.

    Most have upgraded from a 996 TT and say the car is 10% better in all areas, but not worth the price increase.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    NeVeTaS said:
    I am a member on a few car forums, and so far I know 3 people who have already sold their 997 Turbo's.

    Most have upgraded from a 996 TT and say the car is 10% better in all areas, but not worth the price increase.



    It was clear I believe that 997TT was not supposed to be a revolutionary product, rather evolutionary to 996TT.

    As far as rapid sell of the car, although it is a new product there are 8 for sale on ebay.

    http://motors.search.ebay.com/search/sea...ntrypage=search

    IMO Porsche made several mistakes with the launch of 997TT.

    1) No PDK at launch time.
    2) Didn't break the 500 hp (although 480 is close but figure wise doesn't impress).
    3) Didn't get rid of turbo lag. Even though turbo cars do have turbo lags it seemed to have improved just a tid bit on the 997TT compare to 996TT.
    4) higher price for nothing drastic design wise.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    The 997TT can become 599 fast with an ECU flash. I ran even with a Yamaha R6 on the highway from 60-1xx mph stock. With the ECU (adds roughly 80-100 hp) flashed, the car will be a serious monster for very little additional $$$. Granted, there is the possibility of warranty issues, but you could probably buy 2 more spare 997TTs for the market price of the 599.



    I am picking up my TT in about 30 days (am in Tx too). Where/what did you flash your ECU/with?

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    I am doing the GIAC flash which is offered thru EVOMS, AWE, Sharkwerks, Brandywine Porsche, and ImagineAuto. I chose AWE, but there may be some advantage to having Brandywine do it as they are an authorized dealership

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Sorry to hear of your disappointment. Sounds like you have a few legit issues (quality control, etc), but some of the others, like many others bandied about on these boards, are just a case of "you can't please all the people all the time."

    Some complain about PDK, yet I read all the time about how boring these systems are after a while. Lag, some say it's huge, some say it's non-existant. Lack of horsepower (my favorite), like 99.9% of the people driving these things could possibly come close to utilizing these machines anywhere near their limits.

    I'm not saying everyone has to be happy with the car, but I do wonder if some people can ever be satisfied.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    LukasLuis,

    Your criticism of the 997TT could be classified in three categories:
    1. Design/Engineering,
    2. Marketing/Pricing,
    3. Manufacturing/Assembly

    All three are areas in which you had pre-purchase information (within your control) and post-purchase misfortune (not under your control and somewhat due to chance).

    You surely must have been aware of reported specs. and reviews not colored by car industry favoritism (most car mag. reports)-I see you registered here as recently as last October-you should have joined ALOT earlier. The reviews HERE by rennteam MEMBERS (including our well-informed and intelligent editor, RC) might have helped inform your purchase decision, both pre-launch and post-launch. Issues such as the muted exhaust note, turbo lag, and acceleration "feel," i.e., not how fast one is actually travelling, but rather how fast one "feels" he is travelling, are all INTENTIONAL IMO since they make the car appeal to the non-sports car enthusiast segment of the market, the potential buyer turned off by the 911Turbo in the past due to its widowmaker reputation. Not that this was a perfectly executed plan, since they also of course wanted to hold on to the Porsche nut base (people like us), who naturally compare our cars' performance versus others (like you comparing the 997TT to a Bimmer family sedan-i.e., the M5).

    This is a classic case of "marketing-trumps-engineering"-with a muted exhaust that also increases back-pressure and heat retention, a detuned VTG that scares even enthusiasts from tuning the car due to official pronouncements that the VTG can't handle more than 550HP, and ultimately programming the TipS to out-perform the manual.

    Because I know the car can be chipped and tweaked by changing the exhaust and ECU negating those marketing maneuvers, and because it is still an advance over the 996TT in many ways, I am still interested in this car-I have tested one, BTW (but I am on my dealer's list for one as well as a 997GT2 and 997TT-PK/TTS to help decide).

    BUT, like you, I completely agree the car IS underpowered (for our segment of the market), and I too worry that PAG is "spending" its earned reputation as a maker of superior sports cars that can serve as daily drivers-although I understand the rationale-shorter term profit.

    As for your experience with multiple gremlins-many of which sound minor (if not frustrating), there is a certain amount of bad luck when buying these cars, so while the risk carries relatively favorable odds, when you encounter problems, you feel like the risk is 100%. And I suspect that while assembly of any product can be improved, data will demonstrate that this car's overall quality leads this market segment-bad luck always befalls everyone now and then.

    In the end, perhaps maintaining patience with the gremlins and tuning the car to its potential next year (if this fits your checkbook and your dealer's policy) will change your mind about this vehicle....

    Al

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    kush said:
    Sorry to hear of your disappointment. Sounds like you have a few legit issues (quality control, etc), but some of the others, like many others bandied about on these boards, are just a case of "you can't please all the people all the time."

    Some complain about PDK, yet I read all the time about how boring these systems are after a while. Lag, some say it's huge, some say it's non-existant. Lack of horsepower (my favorite), like 99.9% of the people driving these things could possibly come close to utilizing these machines anywhere near their limits.

    I'm not saying everyone has to be happy with the car, but I do wonder if some people can ever be satisfied.



    I sympathize with LukasLuis' critique of the car's power output, one can feel the difference between a 480HP and 580HP car (assuming they are otherwise the same car) even without pushing the car to its power limit-assuming one pushes it to its torque-limit.

    BUT a turbocharged engine will always have some lag, since the turbochargers have to spool from the engine revving, to make boost and then increase power and torque. The advantage of the turbo, however, when properly set up, is that the torque (and power) curve can "take off" from the boost, adding to the car's performance "feel." If this phenomenon annoys and disappoints, then one should stick with a big-displacement NA engine instead.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    get a murcielago, used if need be, not really as much more money as youd think....incredible car.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    I ran even with a Yamaha R6 on the highway from 60-1xx mph stock.



    me too,but from 0 km/h to 180 km/h,what an experience!!

    And regarding the thread,...if today someone stole my Turbo...well,tomorrow i will go to my dealer to order another one with the same specs..no 430,no Lambo,no Z06,again another 997 Turbo!

    Ciaoo

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Issues such as the muted exhaust note, turbo lag, and acceleration "feel," i.e., not how fast one is actually travelling, but rather how fast one "feels" he is travelling, are all INTENTIONAL IMO since they make the car appeal to the non-sports car enthusiast segment of the market, the potential buyer turned off by the 911Turbo in the past due to its widowmaker reputation.



    I'm also under the impression, that LukasLuis' disappointment may be not based on objective data (accelaration times), but on how the car feels when driving it. Perhaps he should have tried a GT3 (certainly no better accel-data compared to the TT, but providing a rawer drive feeling).
    That leads me to the question, whether LukasLuis has gone for an extensive testdrive with a democar prior to ordering the TT Certainly it's hard to explore the limits of a car like the TT during a testdrive (especially on public roads), but it should be sufficient to gain an impression about the car's character and to decide whether this car is the right one for you.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    I am lucky enough to have a Gallardo , 430 and a BMW M5 upgraded to 550 bhp as well as a manual 997 tt with the only modification being a tubi exhaust ( a must in my opinion) and I can only assume you got a bad car as my TT is definitely quicker than the other cars in a straight line and by some margin. In any weather other than bone dry there is no contest and I live in scotland so that is an issue for me. On the twisties different deal Gallardo is quickest in dry conditions with 430 the most fun. Sports exhaust on TT has transformed it for me as great sports car sound now inside and out. Build quality on my car is excellent far ahead of 996 tt of which I had 3.If you need something quicker I suggest it might be feels quicker more than actually quicker as the figures peak for themselves.Thats where the sports exhaust comes in. If you can afford it the carrera Gt is awesome and feels quicker if not actually tha much quicker. It does however need a good level of driver skill not to get into trouble if you are pushing it.
    Sorry you are disappointed with the car.

     
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