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    Dec 9, 2006 5:18:50 PM

    easy_rider911
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    easy_rider911
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    Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    I write as a first time owner of a 997S. I've wanted a sports car since I was a young boy. But somehow previous Porsche designs over the past 15 years never captured my fascination enough to make me want to buy a Porsche. It took the 997 to attract me to step into the world of Porsche.

    I'm now head over heels in love with my car. I simply adore the Carrera S/4S and the Targa 4S.

    Although I find the 997TT too busy, IMO posters of the 997 GT3 and GT3 RS are definitely worthy of a place on any bedroom wall.

    I wonder whether Rennteamers think the 997 will become a design revered in the same way the 993 is?

    Dec 9, 2006 5:22:41 PM

    jamesaug
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    hell yes it will! Although I absolutely adore the new gt3 rs(especially in black and orange), sometimes I just prefer the simplicity of the standard C2 & C4 shapes...which is somthing I dont think the cab quite encapsulates (no disrespect to cab owners..it is a car that I highly covet!) because it looses the rounded side-back windows...conversely, i do prefer the looks of the last generation 996 turbos..although generally the interior of the 997 generation is light-years better...

    Dec 9, 2006 7:00:36 PM

    Ian C
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    Reply to: jamesaug

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Yes, I think it is a great shape. Modern, but reminiscent of the 993 which is a classic Porsche.
    Much as I enjoyed my 996 it never really gave me that buzz when I looked at it, whereas the 997 does

    Dec 9, 2006 7:06:01 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:


    I wonder whether Rennteamers think the 997 will become a design revered in the same way the 993 is?



    IMHO, will take a while to know. Personally I believe the question of how dependable over the long term the car is must first be answered.

    IOW, the reviews of the car have all been extremely positive saying, Porsche "perfected" the 911 with this new model. They wondered if it is now as good as it can ever be. So it has alot going for it to become a "legend" like the 993.

    If, however the electronics and software start going nuts and costing huge amounts of money and causing lots of frustration, after ten years of ownership then the car's "legend" is doomed.

    There's also the hard-to-top aura of the Porsche air-cooled engine to overcome. Those engines sound fantastic and do so without any artificial-and-quite-intentional sound engineering. THAT and other "poser-ish" items (like SC, 19s, and fake quads) may be hard to overcome for the 997's legacy.

    IOW, depending on the direction of the company in the future, the 997 may be regarded as the beginning of the trend of Porsche's unabashed pandering to GM-type buyers in order to sell more cars.

    Dec 9, 2006 10:14:46 PM

    Joost
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Though I am a technician for profession, most of my love for the 911 comes from the looks. I got into porsches duringthe reign of the 996, but I fully understand the emotions about the 993. I also share the feeling most porschephiles have about the headlights of the 996. I think, regarding the looks, the 997 is of an unparallelled beauty. It has the disadvantage that it is water cooled, and the purists still don't like that, but as years go by, I think that that won't be a problem.
    -Joost-

    Dec 10, 2006 1:29:37 AM

    SVNSVN
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    Reply to: Joost

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Yes, I believe it will.... like it even better than the 993- and that's saying something. The design is very clean and classic, IMO.

    I LOVE my " baby!!!!!!!"

    Dec 10, 2006 2:22:41 AM

    MMD
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    Reply to: SVNSVN

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    One of the things that really distinguishes the 993 (and earlier models) from the 996 and 997 is the instrument panel and the low-ness of the dash and resulting almost-panoramic views out the windshield. The 993 and earlier guages reminds me of avionics; really distict for a car and something that we'll never see again.

    The 997 is like the 996: has more of a "normal" car dash.

    bottom pic is a 911SC, can't find a suitable 993 pic

    Dec 10, 2006 2:43:44 AM

    911Dave
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    The 997 is a great car and looks wonderful, but it ain't no 993. The 993 took the world by storm and ignited passion like no other 911 ever has before or since. So far, the 997's biggest claim to fame is that it looks better than a 996. I wouldn't exactly call that making a splash.

    20 years from now, if gas-powered cars can still be driven, I predict the 993 will be more desirable and talked about than the 997.

    Dec 10, 2006 3:04:15 AM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: 911Dave

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    The 993 will be talked about because it was the last air cooled 911, but the 911 variants before it were better looking. IMO, a 964 looks much better than a 993. The lines around the headlights/hood on the 993 are ugly, and it's taken me some time to realize this, but the line of the body of the car is quite different (and less attractive) from every 911. It starts low at the rear end, courses upwards around the cars "hips", is roughly horizontal through the doors, but then curves DOWN again to the headlights. Prior 911's and the original design did not do that, and I really think its unattractive. The 993 Turbo NEEDS to be lowered to look remotely good.

    The 997 is a gorgeous modern take on the original design, but it is big and heavy. The shear production volume will prevent it from ever being a 'classic' of any kind. That doesn't mean it isn't a spectacular car though . . . I certainly love mine!

    Dec 10, 2006 7:09:48 AM

    BC
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Yes...

    Dec 10, 2006 10:34:34 AM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: SVNSVN

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    SVNSVN,

    I was just wondering - when are we going to see photos of your new car???

    Dec 10, 2006 2:46:15 PM

    SVNSVN
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    SVNSVN
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Easy,

    Hopefully today I'll figure out how to reduce the size of my pics from Germany- still no decent ones since being reunited ( too busy driving, enjoying.. ).

    Sorry, I'm such a slacker and computer lame.

    Cheers mate!
    Love hearing how much you're enjoying your gorgeous "baby." Glad I'm in very good company!

    Dec 10, 2006 4:46:56 PM

    Mr Bean
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    You have obviously never had a 993..
    I'v had both '93 and '97........whilst latter is "A nice Drive" it will never have that majic quality of '93.
    '97 has got lardy and soft to catch the US market
    But it depends what you want from a car....best car in my stable is my Lotus Exige S1..........But not for 'er indoors to go shopping in.

    Dec 10, 2006 7:16:43 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: Mr Bean

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Here's some pics to keep this interesting thread going:

    Dec 10, 2006 7:19:33 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    another:

    Dec 10, 2006 7:20:31 PM

    MMD
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    MMD
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    and this:

    Dec 10, 2006 7:23:47 PM

    MMD
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    MMD
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    here:

    Dec 10, 2006 9:59:35 PM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    The 993 in the setting sun posted by MMD reveals exactly what I was writing about. The busy lines around the headlights/hood/front bumper area are ugly, and the slope down to the headlights is too steep - this is vastly different from every 911 except the slant nose variations from the 80's!

    The 993 looks fine, but is NOT the beauty among the 911's that preceeded it, nor along side of a 997.

    Dec 10, 2006 10:03:19 PM

    GRN2RSMO
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Yes in terms of design. I agree with a previous member that production numbers of the 997 will diminish its' ability to become a true classic.

    One of the main reasons I decided to purchase a 911 now,other than the fact that I can afford one, is that the current 997 has a timeless design. Many of the design cues look similar to that of pre 1990 models.

    The 964 seemed to lose those characteristics, and almost bankrupted Porsche. The 993 a beautiful car and looks best in a C4S body. The 996 well the headlight issue will probably always be debated, the dash is lacking in erogonomics and the rear part of the body lost its' hips ( except the C4S and the Turbo)as with the 964.

    For Porsche minimal to no change exteriorly is probably a good thing.


    997 S Slate Blue in production Dec/ Jan delivery

    Dec 11, 2006 12:16:21 AM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: GRN2RSMO

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    As far as outside lines, they are all great! The 993 is nicer than 996 but not than 997 (close). My gripe with the 993 is the interior, unacceptable in mid 90s standard, let alone now. The 996 fixed the inside of the 993, the 997 fixed the outside of the 996.

    Dec 11, 2006 2:31:29 AM

    stork
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    stork
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    yes it is so cool a classic

    Dec 11, 2006 3:59:04 AM

    Dan L
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    Reply to: stork

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    It's too early to say for sure at this point. As an earlier posted stated, time will tell if the reliability of the 997 becomes a factor. There's more to a Porsche than a pretty face.

    Having driven every 911 varient since the 1960s I can only say that Porsche's ability to continue to improve the handling of the '911' is remarkable. We're extremely fortunate that other modernized technologies (brakes, tires, engine management, emissions) are adopted by Porsche in their quest for the ultimate 911. But time will tell.

    Dec 11, 2006 4:11:46 AM

    John H Offline
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    The 993 will be talked about because it was the last air cooled 911, but the 911 variants before it were better looking. IMO, a 964 looks much better than a 993. The lines around the headlights/hood on the 993 are ugly, and it's taken me some time to realize this, but the line of the body of the car is quite different (and less attractive) from every 911. It starts low at the rear end, courses upwards around the cars "hips", is roughly horizontal through the doors, but then curves DOWN again to the headlights. Prior 911's and the original design did not do that, and I really think its unattractive. The 993 Turbo NEEDS to be lowered to look remotely good.

    The 997 is a gorgeous modern take on the original design, but it is big and heavy. The shear production volume will prevent it from ever being a 'classic' of any kind. That doesn't mean it isn't a spectacular car though . . . I certainly love mine!



    Absolutely spot on....

    Dec 11, 2006 7:56:25 AM

    993Targa
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    My 993, I love it!


    A classic like the 997 will become!

    Dec 11, 2006 8:15:46 AM

    993Targa
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    993Targa
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    As far as outside lines, they are all great! The 993 is nicer than 996 but not than 997 (close). My gripe with the 993 is the interior, unacceptable in mid 90s standard, let alone now. The 996 fixed the inside of the 993, the 997 fixed the outside of the 996.



    Good point about the interior, had some problems too with it. My interior is black, and I mean black! So what I did is I got some alu rings for the gauches, not the plastic stuff in modern Porsches , but real alu. Also changed the stick to a 993 RS stick,and the hand brake much more elegant now.

    Next I installed a Becker Traffic Pro Navigation, with Ipod and blue tooth phone connection. Now it feels and looks more like a modern car!

    Dec 11, 2006 9:17:12 AM

    CarlosF
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    Reply to: 993Targa

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Quote:
    993Targa said:
    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    As far as outside lines, they are all great! The 993 is nicer than 996 but not than 997 (close). My gripe with the 993 is the interior, unacceptable in mid 90s standard, let alone now. The 996 fixed the inside of the 993, the 997 fixed the outside of the 996.



    Good point about the interior, had some problems too with it. My interior is black, and I mean black! So what I did is I got some alu rings for the gauches, not the plastic stuff in modern Porsches , but real alu. Also changed the stick to a 993 RS stick,and the hand brake much more elegant now.

    Next I installed a Becker Traffic Pro Navigation, with Ipod and blue tooth phone connection. Now it feels and looks more like a modern car!


    Beautiful car,
    Hope to see her at a meet in late spring at a summit of a pass!
    Carlos

    Dec 11, 2006 2:57:49 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: CarlosF

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    The 997, in both styling and S-power, is what finally nudged me over the top to order a brand-new one. Prior to that, I was in love with my 993. I had an interest in the 996 C4S, but never enough to pull me over the edge. After almost two years of ownership, I'm still smitten by the beauty of my 997, inside and out. Definitely a classic, definitely a timeless beauty, as a 911 should be.

    In retrospect, I should have kept my 993 as well. Two thoroughly different cars, both wonderful in their own respects. And I liked the way that the classic interior carried into the 993, such that I could have that nostalgic pure 911 experience behind the wheel, but with better performance and handling. I never had a problem with the front end styling. It was modern, and it flowed. It didn't look like a slapdash re-hash modernization of an old body-style, the entire form was clean and integrated.

    I find the 964 is "alright" looking, but a bit clumsy and duck-like, as the bumpers just don't integrate well. It was an unholy marriage of old and new, a car that Porsche was trying to milk every last drop of shelf-life out of, like me trying to look like I fit in at a teenage nightspot by wearing hip-hop clothes..

    The 993 on the other hand looked as if the 911 was first invented in 1995. Even with the original roof still hanging in there, it was modern, fresh, and struck a clean profile. I've read the nit-picks regarding the front end, but I just can't see it that way at all. I thought the cars were stunningly fresh and beautiful when they first appeared, and they still look great driving down the road today. The design has legs, it isn't aging nearly as fast as the 964 has.

    From a collector's standpoint of styling, I like 64-72, I like 77-89, 95-98, and 2005+. Mid-seventies, the 964, and the 996, will always be sitting toward the bottom of the collectible totem-pole as "off years". The C4S 996 will always be a looker on its own, only drug down by its un-911-like layed-loaves-of-bread interior.

    Dec 11, 2006 3:12:58 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Gotta say after seeing the photos again (haven't seen a 993 in months) the 993 is a reeeeally good looker.

    It's like they perfected the orginal 911 in the 993 and then went on to a new direction (sylistically, designwise) with the 996 and perfected THAT direction with the 997.

    Dec 11, 2006 3:27:59 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Gotta say after seeing the photos again (haven't seen a 993 in months) the 993 is a reeeeally good looker.

    It's like they perfected the orginal 911 in the 993 and then went on to a new direction (sylistically, designwise) with the 996 and perfected THAT direction with the 997.



    I agree wholeheartedly. Those pictures make me really miss my black/tan '96 C2 coupe!!!

    Dec 11, 2006 5:50:51 PM

    SVNSVN
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Is the 997 on course to become a design classic?

    GORGEOUS, 993Targa! Thanks for posting!
     
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