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    997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    I received several mails over the past few weeks regarding my short 997 Turbo "review".
    Apparently some readers misunderstood me or got the false impression that I don't like the 997 Turbo.

    I want to clarify a few things because I don't want people to miss a lifetime opportunity to own one of the best sportscars on this planet:

    1. I own a 997 Turbo, I own it since end of June 2006 and I already have almost 6000 km on the speedo.

    2. The 997 Turbo is a blast to drive, it is very fast, even compared to my former 996 Turbo RS-Tuning with 543 HP and although I see some room for improvement regarding the chassis and the AWD setup, I love to drive this car.

    3. The 997 Turbo is in my opinion lightyears ahead of the 996 Turbo, so comparing both cars is not only impossible, it would be ridiculous. The 997 Turbo has been improved a lot compared to the 996 Turbo, the only thing I'm missing from the 996 Turbo is the more safety oriented AWD setup.

    4. I plan to drive my 997 Turbo for the next 5 years, so there is nothing wrong with this car. Of course I would love to have more power (working on it ) and I would love to have a more enjoyable exhaust sound (actually the MOST annoying thing in the 997 Turbo, working on it too...soon to be a problem of the past ) but overall, I couldn't be happier with my 997 Turbo.

    5. So far, my 997 Turbo has been 100% trouble-free, no repairs (just a broken turbo charger oil pan due to an upleasant contact with the asphalt in a construction zone), no unexpected dealership visits, this car is the most reliable and trouble-free Porsche I have ever owned (well, my wife's Boxster S has now more than 13000 km and hasn't have a single problem yet too).

    So if you plan to get one but my review somehow gave you second thoughts, think again, you don't know how much fun you're missing. The 997 Turbo is absolutely great and much better than the 996 Turbo. I just expected more from Porsche in my "greed" for more power and more performance. Still, with the exception of the Corvette Z06, you're getting the best buy for your buck in my opinion.
    I'm a very "critical" type of guy and it is my "job" here on Rennteam.com to point out the weaknesses and flaws of a car. I know that some other car forums are actually only "hallelujah, praise my car" forums but this is definetely the wrong place for it. It should be possible to criticize a product but at the same time to enjoy it, right?!

    And now PLEASE: DO NOT send me mails about my car anymore, if you have questions, ask them in the forum, so I don't get almost the same mail over and over again. Thanks for your understanding.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Got it!

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    IMHO the turbo with a nice exhaust (AWE sounds the best to me so far) and some provision for lowering about 20-30 mm without ruining the PASM would be the cat's meow. Oh, and possibly some wheels, and a GT2 front bumper

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Thanks for this.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    i'm at 2000km and i love the car...looks great and goes FAST!

    i think to work on the exhaust sound near Christmas,maybe

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Am waiting 90 days to get the my 997TT , used the 996TT i had no major problem with the car

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    RC- any thoughts as to why/how the suspension setup seems to have regressed a bit? Why didnt they keep the 996 setup if it worked better?

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Quote:
    bostonmini said: Why didn't they keep the 996 setup if it worked better?



    "Better" is in the eyes of the beholder.

    Ever since the 964 C4, Porsche has been chastised for the under-steering tendencies of their AWD system. The neutral balance has been improving with every successive generation - 964-993-996-etc. However, there's still a reputation of under-steer following AWD Porsche designs around in the perception marketplace. You know, "Not authentic sports car handling."

    Perhaps "expert" drivers were judged by Porsche marketing to prefer a bit of "loose" handling as opposed to "push" in their vehicles.

    Or, it may be possible that the new electronic stability systems actually like a native chassis setup closer to over-steer in order to get the most out of the car with the system TURNED ON. If one defeats the system, perhaps one is expected to allow for the over-steering nature in one's driving approach?

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said: Why didn't they keep the 996 setup if it worked better?



    "Better" is in the eyes of the beholder.

    Ever since the 964 C4, Porsche has been chastised for the under-steering tendencies of their AWD system. The neutral balance has been improving with every successive generation - 964-993-996-etc. However, there's still a reputation of under-steer following AWD Porsche designs around in the perception marketplace. You know, "Not authentic sports car handling."

    Perhaps "expert" drivers were judged by Porsche marketing to prefer a bit of "loose" handling as opposed to "push" in their vehicles.

    Or, it may be possible that the new electronic stability systems actually like a native chassis setup closer to over-steer in order to get the most out of the car with the system TURNED ON. If one defeats the system, perhaps one is expected to allow for the over-steering nature in one's driving approach?



    This is correct. For a trained driver the 997 TT performs better than a 996 TT. A good DE and a lot of practice will do wonders.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    IMHO the turbo with a nice exhaust (AWE sounds the best to me so far) and some provision for lowering about 20-30 mm without ruining the PASM would be the cat's meow. Oh, and possibly some wheels, and a GT2 front bumper



    only this???

    u changed everything!!!

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    Quote:
    eclou said:
    IMHO the turbo with a nice exhaust (AWE sounds the best to me so far) and some provision for lowering about 20-30 mm without ruining the PASM would be the cat's meow. Oh, and possibly some wheels, and a GT2 front bumper



    only this???

    u changed everything!!!



    I would consider them "exclusive" options that should have been offered in the first place

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Quote:
    993S said:
    This is correct. For a trained driver the 997 TT performs better than a 996 TT. A good DE and a lot of practice will do wonders.



    I fully agree with what Mike said, apparently Porsche wanted to make the 997 Turbo more "911-like". They succeeded pretty well and a good driver can be damned fast in this car but I'm not sure this is the setup I would want on a daily driver. I also think that the tires play a huge role in this setup, they seem to be more "forgiving", offering more of a "slide" than an "abrupt" traction loss, it is hard for me to explain it in English.

    There is also another thing which concerns me regarding this setup: I'm getting my winter wheels soon and I plan to drive my 997 Turbo during winter time too. Living in Bavaria, I will have to deal with snow and ice sooner or later and I wonder if the AWD setup of the 997 Turbo allows me a safe winter driving or not. Maybe the tires will change the oversteer behaviour too, I'm eager to find out.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I fully agree with what Mike said, apparently Porsche wanted to make the 997 Turbo more "911-like". They succeeded pretty well and a good driver can be damned fast in this car but I'm not sure this is the setup I would want on a daily driver. I also think that the tires play a huge role in this setup, they seem to be more "forgiving", offering more of a "slide" than an "abrupt" traction loss, it is hard for me to explain it in English.

    There is also another thing which concerns me regarding this setup: I'm getting my winter wheels soon and I plan to drive my 997 Turbo during winter time too. Living in Bavaria, I will have to deal with snow and ice sooner or later and I wonder if the AWD setup of the 997 Turbo allows me a safe winter driving or not. Maybe the tires will change the oversteer behaviour too, I'm eager to find out.



    You make a valid point , however you have to consider that on public roads ESP/PSM should always be active. The PSM in conjunction with the PTM makes the drive and traction the best in real road conditions. Really better than the 996. The electronics are amazing. At that point it is the car you really want as a daily driver. Me too btw.

    Of course on the other hand with PSM disabled the PTM has on less "ally" and you will definitely feel the rear wheel drive priority set up. And this has been done to respond to feed back that Porsche got. The car is a much more involving track car and with cup tires it is very close to a GT3. To me it is the best of both worlds.

    I look forward to your remarks about the car once you have the winter tires. But I am pretty sure I know what you will say. You will be driving a car which will give confidence and a lot of traction. You'll see.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    I completely agree with you RC, I received mine at the end of july and already drove 7900 km...

    this car is perfect ! except the exhaust pipe as you said (I would be happy to know how it can be improved once you have found a way)

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    By the way, RC, your English is excellent. If I didn't know otherwise, I wouldn't have believed from your posts that it's not your first language.

    I have just reached 2,000 miles and I wondered what your opinion is regarding an oil change.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Quote:
    andrew34 said:
    By the way, RC, your English is excellent. If I didn't know otherwise, I wouldn't have believed from your posts that it's not your first language.



    Yup! And he's just as proficient verbally.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:


    There is also another thing which concerns me regarding this setup: I'm getting my winter wheels soon and I plan to drive my 997 Turbo during winter time too. Living in Bavaria, I will have to deal with snow and ice sooner or later and I wonder if the AWD setup of the 997 Turbo allows me a safe winter driving or not. Maybe the tires will change the oversteer behaviour too, I'm eager to find out.



    Just remember Porsche 'launch' the 997TT to the press this pass winter in snow and ice with winter tires on. If Porsche has so much faith launching the car to a bunch of yahoos in the snow, you will be fine.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    Quote:
    993S said:
    You make a valid point , however you have to consider that on public roads ESP/PSM should always be active. The PSM in conjunction with the PTM makes the drive and traction the best in real road conditions. Really better than the 996. The electronics are amazing. ...




    Although I agreee with your opinion, one should bear in mind that the ESP has a hard time if the car starts sliding over all four wheels. This might be the case under tricky conditions (e.g. icey surface) and I even have experienced - under controlled conditions and on purpose - ESP systems being unable to control a spin if you surpass a defined threshold. So although ESP can do wonders it is definately not impeccable.

    Since Porsche extensively test their cars in winter conditions and even, as mentioned above, presented the car to a selected group of journalists last winter, I would be extremely surprised if the car would be less than perfect in those conditions. In fact, the new electronically-controlled AWD system should be far superior to its predecessor's!

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    I changed mine at 2000 miles. Even though the service manager said there was no need, I went ahead and did it. I feel better for having done it and there is clearly no risk if you do it.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Clarification on my opinion...again!!!

    I changed mine at 3500 kilometers (@ 2100 miles) and feel good that I did it early also. Changed it again at 10,000 and will probably change it every 8000 kilometers thereafter.

     
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