Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo - Page1

Jun 12, 2006 8:06:55 PM

TulsaTurbo: Co-Pilot; Loc: Oklahoma, USA; Posts: 284, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 24, 2006; Reply to: RC

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
GT said:
Now I don't think that this was "again" a competely inexperienced driver etc etc since they only drive porches in that magazine..

1. it makes a difference if somebody drives ONLY Porsche cars and doesn't drive home in a VW Golf.
2. most car journalists seem to be "clever" enough to make claims about Tiptronic but they apparently "forget" that there is a manual mode too with Tip.

Oh well...what do I know...I'm just the guy who had similar discussions with 996 Turbo critics (it was about the 420 HP "only" and other 993 Turbo vs. 996 Turbo related issues) and some of the critics ended up paying up to 50000 USD (hi Steve! ) because they didn't listen (and didn't "pay attention" to our subtle hints).

For maximum possible performance in the hands of 95% of the drivers out there...Tip it is. It isn't my fault if most of the people choosing manual are considering themselves part of the remaining 5%. And a REALLY last word regarding manual vs. Tip: there is nothing wrong with manual, it is fun of course. But I bet that 90% of those choosing manual would have chosen PDK instead if available. And this is actually the point where I start to doubt the logic behind some of the decisions regarding manual. But like I said before: to each his own but don't say I didn't tell you. I hate to be right (almost) all the time.

RC, I listened.

Yes, some of us listen to you!

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2006 8:13:19 PM

TulsaTurbo: Co-Pilot; Loc: Oklahoma, USA; Posts: 284, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 24, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
AUM said:
A question: In two weeks do you think Tip enthusiasts will join the real world and admit that Tip sucks?

Yes
No

And what if it doesn't suck?

My best friend drives a Murcielago. He is a track guy who drives very well. We have already agreed to take our cars to the track.

Yes, my 997tt with Tip has him concerned!

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2006 8:57:17 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: TulsaTurbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Since more driver skill is required for a manual than for an auto, why would the alleged lack of skill of every single reviewer who did not like the Tip be an issue (when they could manage the more demanding manual without any problems)? Is it the little buttons that require a high degree of skill to push at the right time?

I sincerely hope the Tip does not suck.I hope the Tip works great for those who want that experience.But if I had ordered one, I would be very concerned by the 'fun killer / manual feels faster' reports from everyone who has driven the Tip.

Two weeks should put the issue to rest.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2006 9:21:28 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2875, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Aum: being the grammar scholar who corrected my error with a cut and paste definition on complement and compliment. You should know never to start a sentence with "but", it would be considered a fragment. I hope you find my critique helpful.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2006 9:24:48 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59598, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: rhino

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

You should "teach" me more often, I'm willing to learn.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2006 9:26:33 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2875, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: RC

Jun 12, 2006 9:56:37 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: rhino

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
rhino said:
Aum: being the grammar scholar who corrected my error with a cut and paste definition on complement and compliment. You should know never to start a sentence with "but", it would be considered a fragment. I hope you find my critique helpful.

Can we start a sentence with a conjunction?

"You must not start a sentence with a conjunction" has been the mantra of many an exasperated English teacher, especially since the oiks started getting state education. Any pupil brave, daft or naive enough to raise a hand and ask "Why?" would probably have received some Kafkaesque explanation along the lines of "Because it is said."

So now we're all grown up, we'll ask again - why? The honest answer is that there is no reason. It's just an arbitrary rule that's been passed through the ages. But all language is arbitrary, isn't it? Words and letters are but abstract concepts, the understanding of which can only come through the education of rules.

As usual with these issues, the argument is between the way English is used and the way it is "supposed to be". Sometimes a full stop is required to drive home a sentence or give a meaningful pause. And an afterthought like this one gets more impact when it's a sentence rather than a conjoined clause.

So when someone tells you not to start a sentence with a conjunction, say: "But I've already done it.":)

http://www.gpuss.co.uk/english_usage/start_sentence_conjunction.htm

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2006 11:34:15 PM

GT: Senior; Loc: london , United Kingdom; Posts: 618, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 14, 2006; Reply to: RC

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
GT said:

"2. most car journalists seem to be "clever" enough to make claims about Tiptronic but they apparently "forget" that there is a manual mode too with Tip. "

He did not forget.. I am afraid he tried the manual mode as well and he politely said that it was too slow (ie it sucked!) He then just said that for any conceivable advantage in straight line performance you have to use the automatic mode..

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 1:33:23 AM

svtrader1: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 821, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2003; Reply to: AUM

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
AUM said:
Quote:
rhino said:
Aum: being the grammar scholar who corrected my error with a cut and paste definition on complement and compliment. You should know never to start a sentence with "but", it would be considered a fragment. I hope you find my critique helpful.

Can we start a sentence with a conjunction?

"You must not start a sentence with a conjunction" has been the mantra of many an exasperated English teacher, especially since the oiks started getting state education. Any pupil brave, daft or naive enough to raise a hand and ask "Why?" would probably have received some Kafkaesque explanation along the lines of "Because it is said."

So now we're all grown up, we'll ask again - why? The honest answer is that there is no reason. It's just an arbitrary rule that's been passed through the ages. But all language is arbitrary, isn't it? Words and letters are but abstract concepts, the understanding of which can only come through the education of rules.

As usual with these issues, the argument is between the way English is used and the way it is "supposed to be". Sometimes a full stop is required to drive home a sentence or give a meaningful pause. And an afterthought like this one gets more impact when it's a sentence rather than a conjoined clause.

So when someone tells you not to start a sentence with a conjunction, say: "But I've already done it.":)

http://www.gpuss.co.uk/english_usage/start_sentence_conjunction.htm

rhino,

I suggest you tuck your tail between your legs on this matter.

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 1:41:35 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: AUM

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
AUM said:
Since more driver skill is required for a manual than for an auto

Oh my! All the skill demonstrated by F1 drivers is lost in current F1 cars...

I drive a 6-speed and have driven manuals all my life, thank you... but my next P-car will be an auto/manual - tip or PDK.

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 1:52:43 AM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: ADias

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Thats not really a fair comparison. Driving a tiptronic turbo is easier than the manual, but driving an F1 car is a whole different animal.

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 2:49:12 AM

Hurst: Veteran; Loc: Potomac, MD; Posts: 1255, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 15, 2005; Reply to: ADias

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
ADias said:
Quote:
AUM said:
Since more driver skill is required for a manual than for an auto

Oh my! All the skill demonstrated by F1 drivers is lost in current F1 cars...

I drive a 6-speed and have driven manuals all my life, thank you... but my next P-car will be an auto/manual - tip or PDK.

the F1 argument is invalid with tips (the reason f1 uses the electronic system is due to time saving via shifting. Nothing more, nothing less. The tip does not achieve this).

Furthermore, there are rumors that the sport aims to return to manuals around 2008. The reason? Viewers find the shifters too boring, too dross.

Remember the days when Senna was running through Monaco with a busted gearbox, unable to get into 3rd or 4th gear; having to go from 2nd to 5th? Now it seems like a scratch happens to any of these F1 technological wonders and the car shuts down...

The purists want more!!

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 3:59:43 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Hurst

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
Hurst said:

the F1 argument is invalid with tips (the reason f1 uses the electronic system is due to time saving via shifting. Nothing more, nothing less. The tip does not achieve this).

I challenge anyone to shift manually (with a six speed + clutch) faster than a tip shifts. You may think you are faster, but you are not.

Quote:
Remember the days when Senna was running through Monaco with a busted gearbox, unable to get into 3rd or 4th gear; having to go from 2nd to 5th? Now it seems like a scratch happens to any of these F1 technological wonders and the car shuts down...

I'm known to shift a 4-speed box without a clutch (failure of clutch cable)

I'm very comfortable to state that time for advanced auto trannys (like the new tip-S) is long overdue. Let's concentrate on driving and still shifting (but electromechanically) far faster than any human can.

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 4:12:13 AM

eclou: Veteran; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 1182, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: ADias

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

An automatic car wash will wash your car faster than one can wash it by hand. Which would you find more gratifying?

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 4:23:08 AM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: eclou

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

I recently read an article in which they timed the shift speeds of a f430 (not sure) both manual and f1. The fastest times for the F1 were about a tenth of a second slower than those done with the manual. I think it was in Automobile Magazine, I'll have to look it up. I would be surprised if the new tip shifts as fast as the Ferrari F1 transmision, making it slower than a standard 6 speed.

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 6:51:56 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: rhino

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
rhino said:
Aum: being the grammar scholar who corrected my error with a cut and paste definition on complement and compliment. You should know never to start a sentence with "but", it would be considered a fragment. I hope you find my critique helpful.

But why?

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 9:40:18 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2875, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: svtrader1

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Quote:
AUM said:
Quote:
rhino said:
Aum: being the grammar scholar who corrected my error with a cut and paste definition on complement and compliment. You should know never to start a sentence with "but", it would be considered a fragment. I hope you find my critique helpful.

Can we start a sentence with a conjunction?

"You must not start a sentence with a conjunction" has been the mantra of many an exasperated English teacher, especially since the oiks started getting state education. Any pupil brave, daft or naive enough to raise a hand and ask "Why?" would probably have received some Kafkaesque explanation along the lines of "Because it is said."

So now we're all grown up, we'll ask again - why? The honest answer is that there is no reason. It's just an arbitrary rule that's been passed through the ages. But all language is arbitrary, isn't it? Words and letters are but abstract concepts, the understanding of which can only come through the education of rules.

As usual with these issues, the argument is between the way English is used and the way it is "supposed to be". Sometimes a full stop is required to drive home a sentence or give a meaningful pause. And an afterthought like this one gets more impact when it's a sentence rather than a conjoined clause.

So when someone tells you not to start a sentence with a conjunction, say: "But I've already done it.":)

http://www.gpuss.co.uk/english_usage/start_sentence_conjunction.htm

rhino,

I suggest you tuck your tail between your legs on this matter.

What is the reason to start a sentence with but? This is how AUM's sentence reads " But if I had ordered one, I would..." He should have started the sentence with If not but. Now SVtrader if you think I should tuck my tail, you should look up yours and make sure no one stuck something in there telling you it doesn't matter now that we are all "grown up"

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 9:42:28 PM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: rhino

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Wow that was a weird post

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 9:49:49 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2875, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: rhino

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

"all language is arbitrary, isn't it? Words and letters are but abstract concepts, the understanding of which can only come through the education of rules"

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 9:54:08 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2875, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: trip

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

More weird is correcting someones language in a world wide car forum.

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 9:55:54 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2875, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: rhino

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Since most English words are just spliced and modified smaller words, it's little wonder that people have urges to continue the tradition. Sometimes it leads to applications that are plainly wrong.

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2006 10:22:16 PM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: rhino

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

This thread has become ridiculous and boring, lets get back on topic or close the thread.

Next
Threads

Jun 14, 2006 12:42:41 AM

LoranTw: Senior; Loc: Canada; Posts: 569, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2006; Reply to: rhino

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Quote:
rhino said:
More weird is correcting someones language in a world wide car forum.

You are spot on...it's disrespectful..period.

Next
Threads

Jun 14, 2006 5:03:57 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2875, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: LoranTw

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Next
Threads

Jun 14, 2006 7:13:40 PM

xraydoc: Newbie; Loc: RHODE ISLAND, USA; Posts: 32, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2006; Reply to: TX 911

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

I like manual. I'm steeped in tradition. To me sports cars were made to shift even if I'm .2 sec late getting to sixty. I am however sure TIP guys will be very happy with their choice. Life is about choices.

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	5/14/24 3:43 AM rhino	802643	1804
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	448382	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	265921	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	89923	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	6395	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	885335	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	832142	3868
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	399121	1454
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	395420	1526
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	381951	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	370659	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	5/12/24 6:23 PM blueflame	293303	669
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	265141	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	243785	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	238461	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	222104	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	172945	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	144825	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	120935	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	111304	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	85459	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75682	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	54722	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	5/13/24 3:18 PM Grant	26172	246
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21633	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	20056	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16997	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	14220	225
Motor Sp.	24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018	5/25/23 10:42 PM Grant	11437	55
Porsche	Porsche Mission X Hypercar	12/3/23 8:52 AM 996FourEss	11184	63

Crown

Forum - Thread

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

Forum

Boards