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    Jun 7, 2006 8:57:26 PM

    mish
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    mish
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    Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    I don't know if any of you have tried this, but I just replaced the air in my Cayenne Turbo tires with Nitrogen and there seems to be a BIG difference in performance.

    The car seems to FLOAT along now with little or no road shudder - this despite the car being on 22's....Overall the Turbo seems much zippier off the mark - and a lot nimbler around corners.

    So far, I have been very, very impressed.


    Anyone else tried this with their 997? I may take the c4s for some similar treatment!

    Jun 7, 2006 9:03:12 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    You REALLY don't want me to comment on this, do you?!

    BTW: only advantage is actually that the air doesn't get out as easy as with normal air. Meaning: the tire pressure stays more "constant" for a longer while.

    Worth the extra money? No way. Especially since all new models will be equipped with TPMS in the near future and I check tire pressure once a week anyway...bad (good?) habit.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:05:08 PM

    maoun
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    lol

    Jun 7, 2006 9:06:29 PM

    mish
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Come on RC, if you have something ...spill the beans!

    I am telling you, the Turbo's handling has increased, the car feels much lighter and faster.

    I was told that the wheels are now 30% lighter in weight also.

    Nitrogen is used in Nascar / Racing tires. All the reports I have read have been positive, am I missing something?

    Jun 7, 2006 9:10:44 PM

    1st997
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    1st997
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    The present composition of the atmosphere is 79% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, and 1% other gases.....

    Jun 7, 2006 9:11:19 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Quote:
    mish said:
    Come on RC, if you have something ...spill the beans!

    I am telling you, the Turbo's handling has increased, the car feels much lighter and faster.

    I was told that the wheels are now 30% lighter in weight also.

    Nitrogen is used in Nascar / Racing tires. All the reports I have read have been positive, am I missing something?



    You're missing what car manufacturers have tested...
    We have a saying in German: Glauben versetzt Berge. So shall it be.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:13:17 PM

    pierre
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    pierre
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Quote:
    mish said:
    I am telling you, the Turbo's handling has increased, the car feels much lighter and faster.



    Did you put it into your tires or did you sniff it?

    Jun 7, 2006 9:15:07 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
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    Reply to: 1st997

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Quote:
    1st997 said:
    The present composition of the atmosphere is 79% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, and 1% other gases.....



    The problem with "normal" air in tires is actually WATER.
    When heat builds up, the water evaporates and...tire pressure gets lower. One reason some racing teams are using nitrogen in their tires, it keeps the tire pressure constant for a longer while. No other reason (unless they believe in Santa... ). Nitrogen in tires was "a la mode" over here in Germany a few years ago, it was possible to recognize the tires filled with Nitrogen by a green valve cap. Not sure if they still do it.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:15:52 PM

    mish
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    mish
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    mish said:
    Come on RC, if you have something ...spill the beans!

    I am telling you, the Turbo's handling has increased, the car feels much lighter and faster.

    I was told that the wheels are now 30% lighter in weight also.

    Nitrogen is used in Nascar / Racing tires. All the reports I have read have been positive, am I missing something?



    You're missing what car manufacturers have tested...
    We have a saying in German: Glauben versetzt Berge. So shall it be.






    So why don't NASCAR tires, which take a much heavier beating, use regluar air? Just because Porsche don't offer it, it doesnt mean there isn't a better alternative!





    And $10 for 4 tires is hardly going to break many banks now is it?

    Jun 7, 2006 9:53:13 PM

    PS CA Offline
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    According to a seller of nitrogen, here are the benefits of nitrogen (for truck tires):

    Jun 7, 2006 10:14:57 PM

    SoCalHoosier
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    Reply to: PS CA

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    You guys got it all wrong... you have to use helium!

    It will let your car "float" around corners.

    Jun 7, 2006 10:17:01 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: PS CA

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Costco does this everytime you buy new tires. Supposedly it will increase the thread life (questionable). It will do nothing to the handling or braking.

    Jun 7, 2006 10:31:42 PM

    bstew
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    bstew
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Quote:
    mish said:
    I don't know if any of you have tried this, but I just replaced the air in my Cayenne Turbo tires with Nitrogen and there seems to be a BIG difference in performance.

    The car seems to FLOAT along now with little or no road shudder - this despite the car being on 22's....Overall the Turbo seems much zippier off the mark - and a lot nimbler around corners.

    So far, I have been very, very impressed.


    Anyone else tried this with their 997? I may take the c4s for some similar treatment!



    All I can say is WOW. I'm starting to think owning a 997 is too high maintenance. I have read everything from what brand of gas to what type of gas to what brand of tire to now what goes in the tire. Hey why not.

    Jun 7, 2006 11:10:24 PM

    MKW
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Lexus quietly factory filled it's LS sedan tires with nitrogen in the early 90s as part of several stategies to impress cross shoppers with its wallowy " Oldsmobile " quietness. I pick Olds because when the brand was being established here in the late 80s' there were few MBZ/BMW conquests . Most of it's customers were trading in Oldsmobiles and Buicks , who were used to that isolated ride. Up to that time , MBZ and BMW big sedans in this country still had high top speeds on " noisy " VR rated tires geared towards performance and handling as it's customers to that time expected . As these two brands began losing customers to Lexus " quietness " , they slapped on 130 MPH speed limiters and put on squishy HR rated rubber in the early 90s in order to try to compete on American style " Lincoln Town Car " smoothness and quiet .
    Only now is Lexus trying to change that " Oldsmobile " perception , but you still see many of the German models limited to 130mph with HR tires in our market .

    Jun 7, 2006 11:29:04 PM

    GT2R
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    Reply to: SoCalHoosier

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    This one I have to respond to. I collect Porsches and also track many of my cars.
    Nitrogen is used in race cars to avoid the H2O (that is present in the air we breath) from getting into the tire air. When tires on the track heat to over 200 degrees the water vapor expands much more rapidly that Nitrogen. Thus a greater increase in tire pressure. You will get a lower increase in pressure with the nitrogen than with air. If you live in a dry climate such as I in the mountains or in the desert the air is very dry and there isn't much of an advantage. If you live in a very high humidity area like Florida where the humidity level reaches 80-90% then for tracking a car it may be of benefit to use nitrogen.
    In a car for the street you will see no difference. And no the tires/wheels won't weigh any less. The floating effect you are feeling is simply a placebo effect!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Jun 8, 2006 1:51:35 AM

    frayed
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    Reply to: GT2R

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    ken has it right.

    RC, the problem is increase in pressure under track conditions, not decrease.

    Jun 8, 2006 2:23:40 AM

    GA997S
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    Reply to: frayed

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    You'd have to displace all the air to have N2 take full effect. Ideally, an open valve stem at the top would release the air as N2 is filled at the bottom. Regular compressed air is much dryer than atmosphere but there is still H2O that would expand under increased heat. Especially when 212F is reached!

    Farm tractors have tires filled with water to increase weight & traction. Good thing farmers don't have track days for their tractors.

    Jun 8, 2006 7:55:25 AM

    mish
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    mish
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    Reply to: GA997S

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    This is no placebo effect!


    The car feels completely different to drive, much smoother and lighter. I was on 22's and the road was always rough and bumpy, now it physically feels much smoother.

    There is also no change in the PSI.

    Anyways, I am very happy to have done this, perhaps a few of you doubters should spend the $10 and see for youselves

    Jun 8, 2006 9:24:34 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Quote:
    mish said:
    So why don't NASCAR tires, which take a much heavier beating, use regluar air? Just because Porsche don't offer it, it doesnt mean there isn't a better alternative!



    They use it in Formula One tires as well, the reason being is that Nitrogen retains its volumen better as temperature increases hence the tire's pressure is not influienced nearly as much as the tire heats up or changes temperature, so its easier to maintain a set constant tire pressure inspite changing temperatures. This is an advantage for race cars but no so much street cars.

    The advantage for street cars is what RC already mentioned, nitorgen filled tires do not lose tire pressure over time, so you don't have to refill your tires over time. In racing this is not important.

    So it is better with nitrogen, I have tried and experimented with it, and its true. But not worth the hassle of having to worry if the shop has hidrogen or not, especially if they charge for it (I was given the choice of filling them up with Nitrogen for free).


    As to the handling, I'm inclined t believe that the reason for the better handling you are experiencing may be that the tire pressures may have changed after they filled them with Nitrogen, and you may have developed over time low tire pressures before that and now what you notice is the car's handling with correct tire pressures. Nitrogen has NO effect on handling.

    Jun 8, 2006 9:26:53 AM

    Jeff (in SF)
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    I'd bet that the bumpy ride you felt before was simply having too much tire pressure in there to begin with. At a constant PSI, you'll detect NO difference in regular air or nitrogen. You don't hear differences in speaker wire too do you?

    Jun 8, 2006 11:01:33 AM

    JohnHS
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    Reply to: Jeff (in SF)

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    You mean you cant hear differences in speaker wire? Next you'll be telling me theres no Father Christmas!

    John

    Jun 8, 2006 12:31:57 PM

    mish
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    mish
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    Reply to: Jeff (in SF)

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Right, I just took the Cayenne on the highway and took her upto 212 km. There was no vibration, no sway and the car definitely seemed to have a more solid, stable feeling about it.


    I am in a hot country with prevalent humidity. I don't know exactly what, but something has most certainly changed in the overall drive of the car.

    As I stated previously, the PSI was always set to the factory recommended levels - and checked on a weekly basis, nothing has changed in that department.


    I have asked a few of my friends to do a similar experiment to see if they notice any difference. An E55 will be next on the testing deck...

    Jun 8, 2006 1:19:17 PM

    MBW_UK
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Is it worth running the tests with the various combinations possible of air and nitrogen filled tyres?
    That way we could assess which single wheel is best to inflate with nitrogen!
    Is this likely to change with LHD/ RHD cars?


    On a serious note: I doubt I would notice any difference.
    If you do, cool, its costs bugger all!

    Jun 8, 2006 1:51:06 PM

    AJVIP
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    Reply to: Jeff (in SF)

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    I'd bet that the bumpy ride you felt before was simply having too much tire pressure in there to begin with. At a constant PSI, you'll detect NO difference in regular air or nitrogen. You don't hear differences in speaker wire too do you?



    I hear differences in speaker wire -- especially if we are going from stock OEM wires to Transparent or Kimber Cables.

    Jun 8, 2006 2:02:12 PM

    GT-Boy
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    Reply to: AJVIP

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Also, the Water content in regular air will corrode TPMS systems over time. My Mechanic says that 95% of all TPMS failures he sees are due to the corrosion problem. Pure Nitrogen is an inert gas with ZERO water content. My mechanic says that he uses Nitrogen primarily to preserve his TPMS system, although he agrees that it does have the other benefits mentioned.

    Jun 8, 2006 3:05:45 PM

    bstew
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    Reply to: Jeff (in SF)

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    You don't hear differences in speaker wire too do you?



    I can hear the difference in speaker wire in my home system but that is another subject all together.

    Jun 8, 2006 3:28:46 PM

    roadtrip
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    costco uses nitrogen in all their tire related activities. i know they do this when you get new tires there or have one repaired. i haven't asked about just swapping out air for nitro... perhaps at the right store and time money would talk. yup they do put on green valve caps.

    Jun 8, 2006 3:47:40 PM

    Tony007
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    Reply to: Jeff (in SF)

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    I'd bet that the bumpy ride you felt before was simply having too much tire pressure in there to begin with. At a constant PSI, you'll detect NO difference in regular air or nitrogen. You don't hear differences in speaker wire too do you?



    If you can't hear the difference in speaker wires then your ears are broken

    Jun 8, 2006 4:52:46 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: frayed

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Quote:
    frayed said:
    RC, the problem is increase in pressure under track conditions, not decrease.



    Maybe I wasn't clear enough with my post. The "racing" part was ONLY related to a more constant tire pressure over a longer period of time, not the lower tire pressure (which was with reference to "normal" usage). Sorry for the confusion.
    Another thing is that the N2 molecule is somehow larger than some other molecules in air, meaning that it gets out the tire less rapidly than pure air (which of course contains N2 molecules too). I'm sorry for that simple explenation but my English isn't always too good to explain such stuff.

    Bottom line: no matter what the precise explenation is, nitrogen doesn't make much difference (unless of course you're racing NASCAR ). The safety argument may be true (it keeps the tire pressure at a similar level for a longer period of time) but the fuel saving argument is pure BS.

    Jun 9, 2006 7:14:07 AM

    jimy_q
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Just put Nitrogen in my Tires....

    Guys .. take it easy on mish.
    I have tried nitrogen on my many previous cars and believe it or not it is lighter than normal air... I am planing to do the same for the 997S soon..
    Come on it is around 15$ trial !! it worth it.
    Yes.. I do this for the safty feature in a 50C degree hot country it heats slower than normal air... if you go 210 -220 in such heat you would appreciate the nitrogen ,, or any other gas that is safer than air..

    give it a try ... it depends on your environment.. you might or might not get an effect...
    but sure it is safe to try
     
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