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    Jun 7, 2006 2:06:31 PM

    69bossnine
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    Porsche quality moves up...

    This just in, Automotive News Online:

    Sources: Porsche, Hyundai make big gains in quality study

    Porsche and Hyundai will emerge as the biggest winners Wednesday when J.D. Power and Associates releases its 2006 Initial Quality Study, industry sources say.

    Porsche will vault to second overall in the study, improving from No. 32 in last year's ranking, making Porsche the top European nameplate.

    Hyundai will place third, up from No. 11 in 2005. That makes the Korean automaker the top mass-market nameplate.

    For the sixth year in a row, Lexus will retain the No. 1 spot.

    Toyota will round out the top four, moving up three spots from No. 7last year.

    The study, which measures quality after 90 days of ownership, asks owners to rate vehicle quality on 135 attributes.

    You may e-mail James B. Treece at jtreece@crain.com

    You may e-mail Jason Stein at jstein@craincom.de
    story

    Jun 7, 2006 2:46:04 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Hummmm. Owner's opinion after 90 days of ownership are completed, right?

    Must mean they fixed that major PITA system fault that used to occur after washing car or polishing the headlights.

    Jun 7, 2006 3:44:33 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    That's amazing considering the amount of new models/technology.

    Jun 7, 2006 4:03:37 PM

    wangt1015
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Awesome!

    Jun 7, 2006 4:13:34 PM

    WBH
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Have bought 3 outstanding quality, new P's in past 18 mos , but would argue these quality surveys are utterly worthless....

    Consider how many surveys are completed per brand/model vs sales. Then, consider what % of serial, new high-end car buyers will waste their time filling out some absurdly long survey (even for a crisp $1 bill ), whether they're satisfied/not....I'd bet the survey completion rates are a lot higher for Boxster/Gayman/Cayenne (non-S/TurboS) than for TurboS buyers....

    Most jaded custs have a fairly constructive, direct dialog w/their dealer and/or PCNA rather than any survey....

    And every mfr knows its warranty claims data/costs, so they know their "quality" levels more precisely than any idiotic cust survey data may indicate....

    Jun 7, 2006 4:51:49 PM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    What he just said,

    plus who cares of problems within the first 90 days, fixed under warranty... 5/6 years is what they should look at.

    Jun 7, 2006 4:59:41 PM

    EricAlain
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...


    - I totally agree this survey is just a very nice piece of junk that is completely worthless.
    - However, it has gained so much popularity among (stupid) buyers that car makers are now taking it very seriously.
    - Some of them have "dedicated" teams to twickle the numbers and to make sure they score nicely .... Some of them are "threatening" their customers just to make sure they will fill the form in an "adequate" way !!!!

    Jun 7, 2006 5:02:14 PM

    964C2
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    Reply to: EricAlain

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Regardless...as a relative measure to differentiate between brands, it's still valid.

    Jun 7, 2006 5:19:10 PM

    EricAlain
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    Reply to: 964C2

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...


    I'm not sure the sample of Porsche owners who answered is statistically significant.... this may explain how they moved from 32 to 2nd !!!!

    There is also a tendency of people complaining far less if the brand is being perceived a very good one because they don't want to appear as being "unlucky" versus other buyers.

    Jun 7, 2006 5:22:40 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: EricAlain

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    I have to agree with 964C2, whether the survey is good or not their objective applies to all cars equally. If they don't know how to rate a car then that goes for all makes and models.

    Jun 7, 2006 5:51:28 PM

    racerx
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Being talked about in 2 minutes on CNBC US tv with a 997 as a prop.

    Jun 7, 2006 6:52:25 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    I have to agree with 964C2, whether the survey is good or not their objective applies to all cars equally. If they don't know how to rate a car then that goes for all makes and models.




    Exactly.... any deviation or fudge-factor is going to apply rather equally to all makes (equal enough, I mean come on...). It's a bit of a reach to attempt to find some Freudian explanation as to why Porsche owners would tend to fill out those irritatingly long questionnaires less frequently.

    If anything, the more enthusiastic the car owner, the more compelled they would be to complete such a questionnaire (I mean, seriously, do you think that the guy who manages the Kinko's who just bought a new Hyundai because it was the cheapest transportation he could find, who drives his car through a gas station car wash once a year, who never checks his oil, sits down and fills out these surveys?).

    Also, is it not the 1st 90 days, when the car is still spanking new, and you're still giggling every time you walk into the garage, and you're still giddy in the newness of it all, that you get the most FURIOUS when you've got to leave your car at the dealer for a week or two while you get stuck with some smelly loaner while they bring in parts and fix your warranty glitch??

    In the 1st 90 days, I'm not saying, "Golly-gee-willikers, I sure am glad that reared it's head under warranty, goody-gumdrops for me!!"... I'm saying, "this is B.S., I just got the damn thing after months and months of waiting, and now I can't drive it..."

    So, take the survey results for what they're worth. They are not eminently scientific, but it IS one hell of an achievement for such a relatively small independent outfit like Porsche...

    Jun 7, 2006 7:09:24 PM

    sato
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Well said as ever boss. Actually, the JD Power survey has Porsche knocking Toyota's Lexus from the top spot with 91 complaints per 100 vehicles compared to Lexus' 93. Pretty cool, no matter how you slice the baloney.

    Industry average was 124. Of note Mercedes-Benz scored a 139, BMW scored a 142 and Volkswagen scored a 171 (just two spots above the bottom scoring Land Rover with 204).

    The 911 ranked second behind the Lexus SC430 in the Premium Sporty Car category. The Cayman ranked first in the Compact Premium Sporty Car category, followed by the Honda S2000 and Porsche Boxster.

    Jun 7, 2006 7:17:25 PM

    chapse
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    Reply to: sato

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    I can attest to the Hyudai number, have had one for 2 years, 25000 miles, Zero issues , never been back to the dealer, changed the oil once, not a sports car, but I still beat the crap out of it.

    Jun 7, 2006 7:34:48 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Toyota Dominates 2006 Quality Rankings
    Wednesday June 7, 3:11 pm ET
    By Sarah Karush, Associated Press Writer
    Toyota Dominates 2006 Vehicle Quality Rankings From J.D. Power


    DETROIT (AP) -- Toyota Motor Corp. continued to dominate the initial quality rankings, grabbing the top spot in 11 out of 19 segments in the 2006 survey by J.D. Power and Associates, released Wednesday.

    Porsche dominated the overall ranking of brands, averaging 91 problems per 100 vehicles. That compared with an industry average of 124 problems per 100 vehicles.

    The study, in its 20th year, was revamped to isolate consumers' concerns about design flaws, as distinct from defects and malfunctions. The change in methodology makes year-to-year comparisons impossible.

    However, a parallel survey conducted using the old methodology found that as a whole, the industry improved 8 percent from 2005, said Joe Ivers, executive director of quality and customer satisfaction research at J.D. Power.

    Lexus, Toyota's luxury brand, came in second in the overall nameplate rankings, with 93 problems per 100 vehicles. The Toyota brand came in fourth with 106.

    "They're the closest thing to defect-free," Ivers said of the two brands.

    In vehicle segments, Toyota had five winners, including the Corolla for compact car, the Camry for midsize car, and the Sequoia for large sport utility vehicle. Lexus had six top vehicles, including the IS 250 and IS 350 for entry premium car, the SC 430 for premium sporty car and LX 470 for large premium SUV.

    Of the Big Three domestic automakers, General Motors Corp. made the strongest showing. Its vehicles won in two segments -- large pickup (Chevrolet Silverado) and large car (Pontiac Grand Prix). The Chrysler Town & Country was the top-ranked van, and the Ford Ranger won for midsize pickup.

    Hyundai Motor Co. scored a sleeper hit with consumers, with the Hyundai brand coming in No. 3 with an average 102 problems. The Hyundai Tucson took the top spot for compact SUV or crossover.

    For the study, J.D. Power collected responses from 63,607 purchasers and lessees of new 2006 model-year vehicles after 90 days of ownership.

    This year's survey included 217 questions, up from 135 in previous years, and asked for information specifically about design problems, as well as defects.

    BMW AG's BMW brand had few defects, but one of the highest number of complaints about design -- specifically about the way the brand integrated new technology into its vehicles, Ivers said.

    J.D. Power and Associates: http://www.jdpower.com

    Jun 7, 2006 7:41:52 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    For whatever reason when you buy a Ferrari they call you and ask questions instead of the survey. Apparently it's very important to the dealers because I got a short speach from both my Porsche & Ferrari dealer about it. Both asked basically the same thing - If I wouldn't mind giving them the highest marks. I did and meant them. Guess they know who's happy & who's not too.

    Jun 7, 2006 7:51:21 PM

    Puffy911
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    For whatever reason when you buy a Ferrari they call you and ask questions instead of the survey. Apparently it's very important to the dealers because I got a short speach from both my Porsche & Ferrari dealer about it. Both asked basically the same thing - If I wouldn't mind giving them the highest marks. I did and meant them. Guess they know who's happy & who's not too.



    Be careful not to confuse the J.D. Powers surveys from that of the company surveys. It is not uncommon for a company, like Porsche, to telephone survey a recent purchaser to see how their experience was with the dealership, with the product, etc. Those surveys are not the J.D. Power ones that get "bought" and used by all of the brands in their advertising.

    I bet if you look close enough J.D. Power has a survey for every imaginable type of scenario such that almost every brand will be able to find one that they scored good in to use in their advertising. For example, 90 day survey, multi year survey, SUV survey, pickup survey, resale value, etc.

    Jun 7, 2006 7:52:59 PM

    dhayek Offline
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    where can we find the complete listing to see the rank of ferrari and lambo?

    Jun 7, 2006 7:53:22 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: Puffy911

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Quote:
    Puffy911 said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    For whatever reason when you buy a Ferrari they call you and ask questions instead of the survey. Apparently it's very important to the dealers because I got a short speach from both my Porsche & Ferrari dealer about it. Both asked basically the same thing - If I wouldn't mind giving them the highest marks. I did and meant them. Guess they know who's happy & who's not too.



    Be careful not to confuse the J.D. Powers surveys from that of the company surveys. It is not uncommon for a company, like Porsche, to telephone survey a recent purchaser to see how their experience was with the dealership, with the product, etc. Those surveys are not the J.D. Power ones that get "bought" and used by all of the brands in their advertising.

    I bet if you look close enough J.D. Power has a survey for every imaginable type of scenario such that almost every brand will be able to find one that they scored good in to use in their advertising. For example, 90 day survey, multi year survey, SUV survey, pickup survey, resale value, etc.



    The call I got regarding my Ferrari was from JD Powers.

    Jun 7, 2006 8:09:14 PM

    Scotty A
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    Reply to: racerx

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    My experience is that there are so many surveys, everyone can score highly.

    Jun 7, 2006 8:32:27 PM

    connoisseur
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    The 90 day survey is basically a measure of factory efficiency, from initial order to production to delivery.
    A more meaningful reliability/quality survey is conducted after three years.

    Jun 8, 2006 4:52:39 PM

    amjf088
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    Reply to: connoisseur

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    J.D. Power has only two quality-related automotive surveys that are widely quoted. The 90 day IQ survey being discussed here, and the three-year dependability study (as you can guess, it rates three year old cars on reliability). The 90 day survey, although informative, is less important to me than the three-year dependability study. However, the 90 day study gets the most "air-time".

    Take heart though, guess which manufacturers did well in the most recent three year study? Lexus and Porsche...


    http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/29/j-d-power-releases-long-term-vehicle-dependability-study/

    Jun 9, 2006 1:22:19 AM

    Jim48
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Porsche quality moves up...

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:

    So, take the survey results for what they're worth. They are not eminently scientific, but it IS one hell of an achievement for such a relatively small independent outfit like Porsche...



    J.D. Power and other similar survey firms have ways of correcting the results for a much less than perfect response to their survey, if the manufacturer desires such "massaged" results. In any case, it is one incredible move up for such a small company in one year. Given that Porsche uses J.D. Power to survey customers on their purchase experience with the dealer right after taking delivery, I suspect that they probably get a more detailed, and customized, report from J.D. Power on owner satisfaction.

    Jim


     
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