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Re: Walter Röhrl comment on Cayman
Quote:
bubblegum said:
No, it's you that's missing the point, Walther Rohrl said it would be better with one, but thats hardly a big surprise though, it would be better with an extra 100 BHP and 200KGs lighter, but that's not going to happen either.
Well, I doubt that you're going to get another 100hp or 33% weight savings for the paultry sum required for an LSD (around $1,500), although the benefit to driving enjoyment might be almost as important as adding 100hp. It was left out simply for marketing reasons, not economics.
Re: Walter Röhrl comment on Cayman
Quote:
ElTonioni said:
There seems to be a lot of insecurity here compared to the 911 board
Thinks it's pretty obvious where the insecurities lay with this one, after all no one from the Cayman side can be arsed trolling the 911 board constantly with the same dross month after month.
Re: Walter Röhrl comment on Cayman
Quote:
bubblegum said:Quote:
ElTonioni said:
There seems to be a lot of insecurity here compared to the 911 board
Thinks it's pretty obvious where the insecurities lay with this one, after all no one from the Cayman side can be arsed trolling the 911 board constantly with the same dross month after month.
lol
Re: Walter Röhrl comment on Cayman
Quote:
Grant said:
Sorry, try again. Both Elise and Exige have optional LSD for over a year...
Hey Grant,
Lotus Sport seems to be gearing up for providing a lot of aftermarket parts in the U.S. More than just T-shirts and shift knobs.
From talking to a Lotus Sport employee visiting the U.S., it sounds like they will offer different rates of lock depending on whether you are an autoxer or are simply experiencing some problems on slower corners at the race track.
BTW, Lotus cars still doesn't officially like the LSD, while Lotus Sport seems more willing to use one and then tune for it. Users with power upgrades, or others will wheel spin problems begged for quite some time before the LSD finally came out.
I suspect Cayman owners will have to do the same thing, but it will likely be more of a "decision" for Porsche, as marketing issues are involved.
Re: Walter Röhrl comment on Cayman
Quote:
Justin said:
BTW, Lotus cars still doesn't officially like the LSD, while Lotus Sport seems more willing to use one and then tune for it. Users with power upgrades, or others will wheel spin problems begged for quite some time before the LSD finally came out.
That's a good point, Justin. Adding an LSD should be done in the context of complete suspension tuning. Usually, handling will be affected by adding an LSD (produces more understeer) and spring rates, damper valving, and swaybar settings may need tuning to work properly with the LSD. That's why the -20mm with LSD is such a great suspension option on the 997. All of it is designed to work as a package (that's the reason you can't buy the lowered -20mm springs/shocks/swaybars without also getting the LSD and vice-versa).
May 23, 2006 3:20:27 PM
- SoCalHoosier
- Veteran
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- Loc: California , United States
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- Registered on: Jun 13, 2003
- Reply to: bubblegum
Re: Walter Röhrl comment on Cayman
Quote:
bubblegum said:
Dreamcar you'd post any old [censored] to agree with your boyfriend(S)
Bubblegum, your posts are going from offensive to libelous. If they continue I will have to refer this to the Admin. This would be the first time I've had to do this in over two years and approaching 2,000 posts on this forum.
Re: Walter Röhrl comment on Cayman
Quote:
bubblegum said:
kiss my arse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've said before, there is NO need for this sort of behaviour. It is in my opinion immature, and unpleasent to read in amongst the more reasoned and balanced discussion on the matter.
Shall we just say that the Cayman would benefit from an LSD option, and we are all upset that it seems that marketing and positioning of the car within the Porsche range is the main reason for it's absence.
Play nice!
The Stig on the Cayman and LSD
For what it is worth, did anyone see the Top Gear review of the Cayman S? The Stig's evaluation of the car was that it really suffered for lack of LSD and would be much faster around a track without it. Obviously Porsche is keeping it out to prevent the Cayman from becoming too fast. Only time will tell if they relent.
What else is there really to say?
What else is there really to say?
Re: The Stig on the Cayman and LSD
Coupla comments:
If you want an LSD, you will soon have a solution. They are currently in production and soon available as a standalone item from the aftermarket.
I own a 997S. I drove the Cayman S for the 3rd time today at lunch. I think the Cayman overall feels less 'sporty'. Braking, shifting, acceleration, steering feel. It, however, is far less dramatic in the corners, and easily coaxed into a controllable slide.
The chassis is so good, I'm thinking that those tuners out there offering 3.8L X51 conversions, LSD, and a proper suspension (a set of Motons or Ohlins), and the car would tear up anything short of a GT on the track, including GT3s. So, I'm going to go drive one of these converted cars and see if it lights my fire, and particularly whether the converted cars cure my quest for a more sporty, visceral Cayman.
If you want an LSD, you will soon have a solution. They are currently in production and soon available as a standalone item from the aftermarket.
I own a 997S. I drove the Cayman S for the 3rd time today at lunch. I think the Cayman overall feels less 'sporty'. Braking, shifting, acceleration, steering feel. It, however, is far less dramatic in the corners, and easily coaxed into a controllable slide.
The chassis is so good, I'm thinking that those tuners out there offering 3.8L X51 conversions, LSD, and a proper suspension (a set of Motons or Ohlins), and the car would tear up anything short of a GT on the track, including GT3s. So, I'm going to go drive one of these converted cars and see if it lights my fire, and particularly whether the converted cars cure my quest for a more sporty, visceral Cayman.
Re: The Stig on the Cayman and LSD
Wouldn't it be possible, that Porsche were to give the Cayman S the LSD instead of a BHP increase later? That way, PAG could still save money with their "same engine for boxster and cayman models" strategy and give the Cayman S the sportier setup back. Afterall Porsche has tried so hard to convince us, or most of us at least, that the Cayman was a different car than just a Boxster with a roof. Just look at the price difference. Also if the Boxster gets the 1.5% price increase, it surely doesn't help differentiating the 2 models from each other.
I am really interested in knowing what Porsche is planning for the future.
I am really interested in knowing what Porsche is planning for the future.
Re: The Stig on the Cayman and LSD
The 997 can be ordered with an LSD in Europe, I believe. It is also shame it cannot be ordered that way in the US, as it needs one as well despite its superior traction. However, the 997 and 997S are 2+2 cars and somewhat GTish. In contrast, the Cayman, according to Porsche's marketing, is a "serious driver's car." Serious drivers like LSDs. That's why all the noise. No troll here. I want Porsche to make the right Cayman, so I can go buy one. It's obviously an incredible car, that can be made much better with minimal effort.
Re: The Stig on the Cayman and LSD
I cannot see how LSD is not an absolute must. I often drive alpine passes between Italy and Switzerland, and when it was wet, even my poor little 986S with 252hp (and 265mm rears) NEEDED one badly for every single hairpin. Sure, on the dry and on flat roads, LSD - or the lack of - is not that screaming, but on alpine twisties, it is surely something that is very annoying. I cannot imagine that the Cayman with even more power would behave differently under the same conditions. I like the Cayman and the Boxster...just why this little extra be added to these cars? as said above, minimal effort required!
Re: The Stig on the Cayman and LSD
Quote:
Jeannot said:
I cannot see how LSD is not an absolute must. I often drive alpine passes between Italy and Switzerland, and when it was wet, even my poor little 986S with 252hp (and 265mm rears) NEEDED one badly for every single hairpin. Sure, on the dry and on flat roads, LSD - or the lack of - is not that screaming, but on alpine twisties, it is surely something that is very annoying.
Yes, you in Switzerland and I in Colorado have the sort of roads that expose the need for an LSD VERY quickly. Other folks are not in the same situation I guess...
Re: The Stig on the Cayman and LSD
Quote:
Jeannot said:
Grant, you are right. These roads screams for them.
Wish I could drive yours once. Just been through the Simplon today, that is 2005m or approx 6000ft. Not the highest around here however. How high does it get there?
The highest paved road near my house (less than one hour away) is 14,300 ft. (4,400m)
Re: The Stig on the Cayman and LSD
Guys, this discussion is really senseless, I'm not sure if everybody realizes it. Why? Simple:
1. Porsche isn't going to "threaten" their 911 flagship model line, especially since the 911 IS in fact Porsche and their tradition.
2. Nobody with some brains can honestly say that the Cayman S isn't a fast and very sporty performer. No doubt about it, it is a fine little sportscar and driving it provides a lot of fun. But nethertheless, it will never be THE 911 competitor because Porsche simply won't allow it. Period.
3. We can talk all day long how much faster the Cayman S would be with LSD, with more power or with a jet turbine installed.
As long as Porsche...well, you heard this one before.
The conclusion? Simple again: the Cayman S is a nice sportscar but Porsche made the mistake to place it, marketing-wise, between the Boxster and the 911 as some sort of "jumping board" towards the 911. HUGE mistake.
And I'm afraid that this will be actually the reason why the Cayman won't be a huge success in a longterm run. Too many people didn't understand the concept, too many people view it as a 911 competitor, too many people view it as a 911 for "poor people" and too many people feel it is a rip-off compared to the Boxster. A car which doesn't have a certain "tradition" with Porsche can't possibly compete with the 911, impossible. The Boxster was always succesful because it has been positioned below the 911 and as some sort of individual model with it's own charisma, not a cheaper 911 "derivate".
I'm pretty sure that the Cayman sells well in some regions because people buying it either don't have a clue about Porsche tradition/heritage or fell for the "911" for less money marketing ploy. The Cayman's problem is actually it's novelty, it is too new, too close to the Boxster and too close to the 911...design-wise but even price-wise.
I'm no 911 hardcore owner, my wife got herself a Boxster S and our family car is a Cayenne Turbo Powerkit. If I would be a hardcore Porsche addict, I would very likely own a 911 2.7 or a 964 RS. Yes, the Cayman is fast and it's handling capabilities on tight tracks/streets are very close to the new GT3 and even slightly better than the ones of the Boxster S. So what? I know other cars from other manufacturers which achieve the same. But is this all? Don't we expect a little bit more from a Porsche? I would have accepted the Cayman as a Boxster Coupe in an instant. But Porsche trying to give the Boxster Coupe a new indentity by naming it Cayman and adding a few horses more is ridiculous. And maybe it is this marketing ploy which annoys me most and not necessarily the car itself. Unfortunately this bad feeling reflects upon the Cayman. It is a pitty, this product deserves a better reputation.
1. Porsche isn't going to "threaten" their 911 flagship model line, especially since the 911 IS in fact Porsche and their tradition.
2. Nobody with some brains can honestly say that the Cayman S isn't a fast and very sporty performer. No doubt about it, it is a fine little sportscar and driving it provides a lot of fun. But nethertheless, it will never be THE 911 competitor because Porsche simply won't allow it. Period.
3. We can talk all day long how much faster the Cayman S would be with LSD, with more power or with a jet turbine installed.
As long as Porsche...well, you heard this one before.The conclusion? Simple again: the Cayman S is a nice sportscar but Porsche made the mistake to place it, marketing-wise, between the Boxster and the 911 as some sort of "jumping board" towards the 911. HUGE mistake.
And I'm afraid that this will be actually the reason why the Cayman won't be a huge success in a longterm run. Too many people didn't understand the concept, too many people view it as a 911 competitor, too many people view it as a 911 for "poor people" and too many people feel it is a rip-off compared to the Boxster. A car which doesn't have a certain "tradition" with Porsche can't possibly compete with the 911, impossible. The Boxster was always succesful because it has been positioned below the 911 and as some sort of individual model with it's own charisma, not a cheaper 911 "derivate".
I'm pretty sure that the Cayman sells well in some regions because people buying it either don't have a clue about Porsche tradition/heritage or fell for the "911" for less money marketing ploy. The Cayman's problem is actually it's novelty, it is too new, too close to the Boxster and too close to the 911...design-wise but even price-wise.
I'm no 911 hardcore owner, my wife got herself a Boxster S and our family car is a Cayenne Turbo Powerkit. If I would be a hardcore Porsche addict, I would very likely own a 911 2.7 or a 964 RS.
Yes, the Cayman is fast and it's handling capabilities on tight tracks/streets are very close to the new GT3 and even slightly better than the ones of the Boxster S. So what? I know other cars from other manufacturers which achieve the same. But is this all? Don't we expect a little bit more from a Porsche? I would have accepted the Cayman as a Boxster Coupe in an instant. But Porsche trying to give the Boxster Coupe a new indentity by naming it Cayman and adding a few horses more is ridiculous. And maybe it is this marketing ploy which annoys me most and not necessarily the car itself. Unfortunately this bad feeling reflects upon the Cayman. It is a pitty, this product deserves a better reputation.
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