Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Way OT but IRAN? - Page1

Apr 15, 2006 4:20:14 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: The Groom

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Think about this: your neighbor repeatedly and adamantly expresses a desire to destroy you and also admits developing the means to do so- you do nothing???

Oh, in case you didn't know- Imperial Japan brutally attacked the USA, and the bombs that ended WWII very likely saved many more months of war and tens of thousands of lives.

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Apr 15, 2006 4:20:15 PM

Discover: Senior; Loc: Israel; Posts: 711, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2005; Reply to: chickencurry

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
chickencurry said:
Quote:
Discover said:
and everyone say Israel is crazy..
you just don't know what it's like to live with arabs...

We don't need this racist abuse IN THE PORSCHE board for heaven's sake. What next? A racist comment about Jews?

you got me all wronge..
i have no problem with all arabs.. not at all..
my father even works with them... and i have arab friends (both in real life and over the internet)
my problem is with those who tried to kill us, and when we fight back the world (mostly EU countries) condemn Israel.

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Apr 15, 2006 4:32:17 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: The Groom

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

there is no excuse for using military power. iraq is a mess now and i am sure its public preferred the times when they were terrorized by saddam hussein.

anyway, the public was not asked if they would want the americans to strike.
so mr. bush in his texan way did what he wanted to do for the oil lobby. fahrenheit 911 anyone ?

i feel sorry for the US soldiers that are now fighting a war that is not theirs. they are dying on forign soil for the few that would not get their hands dirty...

any of the decision makers that got the war machinery rolling have any relatives in the front- lines. bet you they don't.

didnt bush just have to admit that he leaked info to the new york times ?

saddam hussein could have been surgically removed and there would have been a change for democracy and for the better.

what was the most protected institution during and after the war ? the ministry of petrolium and the oil fields.....ring a bell ?

the US made profits in operation desert storm.

why are they not fighting in darfur ?

it's all nothing but a mess and the bill will have to be covered.

i respect the american people and i like the american way of life and in general you have a great country there, but you are too far away from the middle east and africa to really know whats going on.

for gods sake, most americans dont even know where egypt even is on the map ?

live and let live.............

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Apr 15, 2006 4:40:13 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Discover

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Groom, no one wants to deny Iranians clean electricity. But no one wants to see crazy religious people with a nuclear weapon. France doesnt, Germany doesnt. Its not just a USA versus Iran thing.

Tehran's leadership is so kooky that the only person you can find friendly to them in the west is yourself and wtsnet. Not even the Arab nations, not a single one, wants to see Persia with a nuclear weapon. Even Hamas doesnt want a mushroom cloud 5km from its border.

Its not a argument about whats fair and what isnt. Its about Persia's strategic ambititions and sanity.

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Apr 15, 2006 4:41:07 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: Louis

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
Louis said:
Quote:
SVNSVN said:
intouch1,

Unfortunately humanitarian aid doesn't work when it's lining the pockets of dictators and terrorist groups. Military intervention in necessary when all attempts at diplomacy ( many years of, in the case of Iraq) fails.

Please look at the bigger picture folks: the Iraqi and Afghan people were living in terrible conditions and Saddam had already proven he was capable of using WMD's- he even used them on his own people. Before the war most saw a threat- now they seem to have developed amnesia.

I listen to our President, our troops and the good people of those two countries to get an idea how things are going- not just the very often biased media. They have infinitely more credibility in most cases.

Actually the situation in Iraq is FAR WORSE than it was before. I'm not saying that Saddam's rule was a good thing (he is a Dictator and should have never ruled) but things right now are just terrible and I know personally as we have family friends that live there and we hear from them the REALITY. There is absolute chaos and disorder in the whole country. There were no WMDs, North Korea has them and is a REAL threat but they don't have oil so no interest there.

On to discussing sportscars now!!

Yeah, more power, clean water, schools...freedom from the horrible boot of tyranny( rape rooms, mass torture, mass graves...), a real chance at living in freedom... sounds worse to me! NOT!!! PLEASE!

I'll say it again: the words and actions of the President, our troops( 1st hand)and the Iraqi and Afghan people carry infinitely more weight than the unwashed, and the often biased media.

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Apr 15, 2006 4:47:22 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: The Groom

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
The Groom said:
As much as I dislike the current Iranian regime, as much as I dislike the thought of an Iranian nuclear first strike, Iran has every right to withdraw from the non-proliferation treaty and build its own bomb.

The countries who have built the bomb have no right to deny others what they did themselves. In particular, the country which actually did launch nuclear bombs twice has no right to deny another the benefits of clean electricity on the vague supposition that it might use it to build a bomb which might be launched some day.

And having witnessed how Iraq (a country which we knew did not have any WMDs) fell in weeks, whereas we do not dare attack North Korea (a country which does have WMDs and will sell them to anyone), I perfectly understand why the Iranian government would want to protect itself from a US attack by the only proven way to do so.

Think about it.

Groom,

I'm glad you understand the Iranian government. But that doesn't resolve the issue.

I hope diplomacy works and we can avoid a disaster. I really do.

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Apr 15, 2006 4:55:25 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
intouch1 said:
there is no excuse for using military power. iraq is a mess now and i am sure its public preferred the times when they were terrorized by saddam hussein.

anyway, the public was not asked if they would want the americans to strike.
so mr. bush in his texan way did what he wanted to do for the oil lobby. fahrenheit 911 anyone ?

i feel sorry for the US soldiers that are now fighting a war that is not theirs. they are dying on forign soil for the few that would not get their hands dirty...

any of the decision makers that got the war machinery rolling have any relatives in the front- lines. bet you they don't.

didnt bush just have to admit that he leaked info to the new york times ?

saddam hussein could have been surgically removed and there would have been a change for democracy and for the better.

what was the most protected institution during and after the war ? the ministry of petrolium and the oil fields.....ring a bell ?

the US made profits in operation desert storm.

why are they not fighting in darfur ?

it's all nothing but a mess and the bill will have to be covered.

i respect the american people and i like the american way of life and in general you have a great country there, but you are too far away from the middle east and africa to really know whats going on.

for gods sake, most americans dont even know where egypt even is on the map ?

live and let live.............

I was wondering how long it would take before the same," it's all about the oil" argument came up.

God help you brother, if you get your news from the NY Times!

It's not possible for the President to leak information- he has the authority to de-classify information!

BTW, the USA is contributing over 80% of the aid to countries in Africa.Our President has approved billions for the fight against AIDS in Africa- yeah, sure sounds like a rotten guy to me! Must be the oil!

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Apr 15, 2006 5:09:28 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Groom, no one wants to deny Iranians clean electricity. But no one wants to see crazy religious people with a nuclear weapon. France doesnt, Germany doesnt. Its not just a USA versus Iran thing.

Tehran's leadership is so kooky that the only person you can find friendly to them in the west is yourself and wtsnet. Even the Arab nations, not a single one, wants to
see Persia with a nuclear weapon. Even Hamas doesnt want a mushroom cloud 5km from its border.

Its not a argument about whats fair and what isnt. Its about Persia's strategic ambititions and sanity.

There it is!

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Apr 15, 2006 5:23:35 PM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
intouch1 said:
there is no excuse for using military power. iraq is a mess now and i am sure its public preferred the times when they were terrorized by saddam hussein.

anyway, the public was not asked if they would want the americans to strike.
so mr. bush in his texan way did what he wanted to do for the oil lobby. fahrenheit 911 anyone ?

i feel sorry for the US soldiers that are now fighting a war that is not theirs. they are dying on forign soil for the few that would not get their hands dirty...

any of the decision makers that got the war machinery rolling have any relatives in the front- lines. bet you they don't.

didnt bush just have to admit that he leaked info to the new york times ?

saddam hussein could have been surgically removed and there would have been a change for democracy and for the better.

what was the most protected institution during and after the war ? the ministry of petrolium and the oil fields.....ring a bell ?

the US made profits in operation desert storm.

why are they not fighting in darfur ?

it's all nothing but a mess and the bill will have to be covered.

i respect the american people and i like the american way of life and in general you have a great country there, but you are too far away from the middle east and africa to really know whats going on.

for gods sake, most americans dont even know where egypt even is on the map ?

live and let live.............

sorry intouch ,i have to disagree . when you say live and let live ,look from where the problem originated ,from radical muslim. i do respect the muslim religion,but the radicals started to grow in number ,and to mess up with the entire world: chechnya ,algeria etc...then they started to take whole countries,like afghanistan,and live like the middle age.nobody cared as long as they didnt bother anyone,but then after 9/11,what do you expect? the us army went to kuwait upon request from the kuwaiti goverment ,in saudi upon request of the saudi goverment.
look what is happening in france, in england...look at what happened this week in egypt,alexandria. i respect the american goverment because they had the balls to fight this terrorism ,while others just followed or watched..

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Apr 15, 2006 5:32:59 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Quote:
wtsnet said:
Quote:
trip said:I read in the news today that Irans president hqs commented that Israel is "headed for annihilation" and "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm."

And how do you think the people in Iran feel when they read the stuff that Bush says? I bet they feel pretty scared too!

President Ahmadindjad said that "Israel should be wiped off the map". Bush never made such a threat towards the Iranians.

Not yet but he is doing a pretty good job in Iraq.

Iran is doing nothing more than posturing. They are not a nuclear threat. They will be lucky to assemble one bomb in 10 year.

Do not forget the US started their nuclear program in the 70's. President Ford was willing to give them everything they needed.

If you were the Iranians and witnessing the total destruction of Iraq, the nuclear arming of India, Parkinstan and Israel none of whom subscribe to the Non Proliferation Nuclear treaty what would you do? Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear treaty and its efforts to date are in compliance with that treaty.

This is just another case of colonial powers dictating to weaker nations how to behave and the consequence of not falling in line.

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Apr 15, 2006 5:36:11 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

dhayek,

i agree with your points. there are many liberal muslims too. anyway, the muslim radicals are not driven by islam or religion. they are driven by ignorance and hate for anything that is modern and good. its politically motivated.

just as the americans are not driven by a mission to free and democratize the world. its politically motivated as well.

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Apr 15, 2006 5:36:25 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

So true!

Whether we want to realize it or not, the whole civilized world is at war with the RADICALS( not Islam itself; or Persians either). How much more proof do some people need?

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Apr 15, 2006 5:37:46 PM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:no one wants to see crazy religious people with a nuclear weapon. France doesnt, Germany doesnt. Its not just a USA versus Iran thing.

From a European view, there is only one country with nuclear weapons that is ruled by crazy religious people... and it's not Iran.

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Tehran's leadership is so kooky that the only person you can find friendly to them in the west is yourself and wtsnet.

Don't get me wrong. I hate the current regime there and will applaud with both hands the day a true democracy emerges in Iran (and anywhere else in the world).

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Its not a argument about whats fair and what isnt. Its about Persia's strategic ambititions and sanity.

I understand we have to attack Iran before it goes nuclear. But the truth is that we have no right to do so. And yet, we claim Iran has violated its absence of right to get nuclear weapons. Right after we let our allies Israel, India and Pakistan off without even a slap on the wrist. Talk about a credibility gap.

Attacking because of strategic reasons is one thing. But vindicating this very attack with patently false legal "reasons" will not help our cause. It just widens this credibility gap. And this credibility gap is the very first thing that needs to be addressed.

Just take a look at what is happening in Iraq. The US quickly won the battle for Baghdad, but it failed to win the battle for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.
Whenever we try to get it right, we are second-guessed. Whenever we send in help, the very people we are helping are wondering about our hidden agenda. Whenever we rebuild the country, we are accused of plundering it. We have spun and spun and spun our decisions so much that the word of the West isn't worth much any more on the world market. Under these circumstances, we will never manage to attract enough Iraqis to our side.

And eventually, as long as complete genocide is not an option, it all comes down to winning the hearts and minds.

Edited: oh, and I 100% agree with what Nick wrote while I was replying.

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Apr 15, 2006 5:38:21 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

I agree with you Nick!
Latest info-Russian government and military claimes that Iran is not capable to build nuclear weapons in next 10-15 years. President Putin said that Russia will support and very carefully monitor Iranian Nuclear civil program. He is also very strongly against any military action against Iran.
According to Russians some diplomatic solution MUST be found!

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Apr 15, 2006 5:42:40 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
intouch1 said:
dhayek,

i agree with your points. there are many liberal muslims too. anyway, the muslim radicals are not driven by islam or religion. they are driven by ignorance and hate for anything that is modern and good. its politically motivated.

just as the americans are not driven by a mission to free and democratize the world. its politically motivated as well.

How do you know our intentions??? And you claim to like us , yet impugn us at the same time. Be honest- tell us we're no good, that you hate America. I would respect that more than your double talk.

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Apr 15, 2006 5:54:30 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

there you go,

americans are good. and i love america. especially love wind and kitesurfing maui northshore waves, i simply disagree with the political motivation of some people that are involved in running your country.

fortunately you are a democratic country and these people will not be in power forever...unlike in our part of the world.

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Apr 15, 2006 5:58:46 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: The Groom

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
The Groom said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:no one wants to see crazy religious people with a nuclear weapon. France doesnt, Germany doesnt. Its not just a USA versus Iran thing.

From a European view, there is only one country with nuclear weapons that is ruled by crazy religious people... and it's not Iran.

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Tehran's leadership is so kooky that the only person you can find friendly to them in the west is yourself and wtsnet.

Don't get me wrong. I hate the current regime there and will applaud with both hands the day a true democracy emerges in Iran (and anywhere else in the world).

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Its not a argument about whats fair and what isnt. Its about Persia's strategic ambititions and sanity.

I understand we have to attack Iran before it goes nuclear. But the truth is that we have no right to do so. And yet, we claim Iran has violated its absence of right to get nuclear weapons. Right after we let our allies Israel, India and Pakistan off without even a slap on the wrist. Talk about a credibility gap.

Attacking because of strategic reasons is one thing. But vindicating this very attack with patently false legal "reasons" will not help our cause. It just widens this credibility gap. And this credibility gap is the very first thing that needs to be addressed.

Just take a look at what is happening in Iraq. The US quickly won the battle for Baghdad, but it failed to win the battle for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.
Whenever we try to get it right, we are second-guessed. Whenever we send in help, the very people we are helping are wondering about our hidden agenda. Whenever we rebuild the country, we are accused of plundering it. We have spun and spun and spun our decisions so much that the word of the West isn't worth much any more on the world market. Under these circumstances, we will never manage to attract enough Iraqis to our side.

And eventually, as long as complete genocide is not an option, it all comes down to winning the hearts and minds.

Edited: oh, and I 100% agree with what Nick wrote while I was replying.

Knucking Futs!!! So we're ruled by crazy religious people...! It's nice to know what side some folks are on.

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Apr 15, 2006 6:01:06 PM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: The Groom

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
The Groom said:
I understand we have to attack Iran before it goes nuclear. But the truth is that we have no right to do so. And yet, we claim Iran has violated its absence of right to get nuclear weapons. Right after we let our allies Israel, India and Pakistan off without even a slap on the wrist. Talk about a credibility gap.

take it this way : would you allow a serial killer to hold a gun? in the us anyone can apply for a gun permit, but not if he has any bad record ,because he could harm others..simple

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Apr 15, 2006 6:03:17 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
intouch1 said:
there you go,

americans are good. and i love america. especially love wind and kitesurfing maui northshore waves, i simply disagree with the political motivation of some people that are involved in running your country.

fortunately you are a democratic country and these people will not be in power forever...unlike in our part of the world.

Come on. Do you really believe that Iraq (and the rest of the world ) was better off with Saddam... a few weeks ago he stated that the thousands he had killed ( women and children too) deserved to die.

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Apr 15, 2006 6:03:27 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
nberry said:If you were the Iranians and witnessing the total destruction of Iraq, the nuclear arming of India, Parkinstan and Israel none of whom subscribe to the Non Proliferation Nuclear treaty what would you do? [etc]

Nice one Nick. Good to hear someone has some empathy over there.

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Apr 15, 2006 6:03:56 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

and yet there are more serial killers than anywhere else in the world !

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Apr 15, 2006 6:04:08 PM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

its getting nasty!time to close the thread... carlos ! christian! fanch! ,ron!!! where are you????

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Apr 15, 2006 6:06:05 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Quote:
dhayek said:
Quote:
The Groom said:
I understand we have to attack Iran before it goes nuclear. But the truth is that we have no right to do so. And yet, we claim Iran has violated its absence of right to get nuclear weapons. Right after we let our allies Israel, India and Pakistan off without even a slap on the wrist. Talk about a credibility gap.

take it this way : would you allow a serial killer to hold a gun? in the us anyone can apply for a gun permit, but not if he has any bad record ,because he could harm others..simple

Careful my friend, you're making too much sense for some of these good people.

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Apr 15, 2006 6:10:22 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Way OT but IRAN?

Yes, it was only a matter of time I'm afraid.

This is a sportcar forum, we shouldn't have threads about politics here please. There are other forums for that. Discussing politics via a web forum is completely useless anyway and 99% of the time unconstructive.

We are an international comunity joined by our mutual passion for Porsches and sportcars, there is no place for politics here. Its only adds to seperate members and create bad vibes between them. I would like to see the opposite happening here.

Please lets keep the politics content to a minimum guys.

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