Crown

That's true, but why bother (many don't) when black ones look so much better anyway...

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

For the sake of variety and catering for different tastes

"Form follows function"

So, five years into 997 GTS ownership and having just extended my OPC warranty for a further 2 years, I'm finally taking the plunge and getting the SharkWerks exhaust by-pass fitted on Thursday...

It's being done by a Specialist I met a year ago who also has a GTS and has a franchise arrangement with Alex (Sharky) Ross.  He's fitted about 50 over the past 14 months and is very well thought of in this area.

I've been wanting to have this done for ages, but have always been warned by my OPC that it would totally invalidate my warranty.  Fortunately, there is now a new Centre Principal, who advised me to contact Porsche GB before deciding.  Here is the written advice I received from them...

"Dear Mr H,

Thank you for your time earlier today, as requested please see the below content.

Porsche Warranty guidelines stipulate that the addition of any after market parts added to the vehicle will cause the warranty on that particular system to be void, in this case the exhaust system.

I must also advise that if you wish to extend your warranty further this will not be possible as the addition of the after market part will not meet the criteria of our Porsche 111 Point Check.

I understand the above may be met with disappointment but provides a clear understanding of Porsches position.

Thank you for contacting Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited."

Kind regards

Lloyd Harries
Customer Assistance Advisor
Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited
customer.assistance@porsche.co.uk
Tel: 0118 919 1744

This clearly clarifies that only the exhaust system will be excluded for warranty purposes, as opposed to the OPC's previous view that it would be totally voided!

I probably won't want to extend the warranty again in 2018 - but even if I still wanted to, the exhaust could be returned to stock for the 111 point check... Can't wait to hear my car with a 'full voice'..!

Wish me luck....

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

John H:

So, five years into 997 GTS ownership and having just extended my OPC warranty for a further 2 years, I'm finally taking the plunge and getting the SharkWerks exhaust by-pass fitted on Thursday...

It's being done by a Specialist I met a year ago who also has a GTS and has a franchise arrangement with Alex (Sharky) Ross.  He's fitted about 50 over the past 14 months and is very well thought of in this area.

I've been wanting to have this done for ages, but have always been warned by my OPC that it would totally invalidate my warranty.  Fortunately, there is now a new Centre Principal, who advised me to contact Porsche GB before deciding.  Here is the written advice I received from them...

"Dear Mr H,

Thank you for your time earlier today, as requested please see the below content.

Porsche Warranty guidelines stipulate that the addition of any after market parts added to the vehicle will cause the warranty on that particular system to be void, in this case the exhaust system.

I must also advise that if you wish to extend your warranty further this will not be possible as the addition of the after market part will not meet the criteria of our Porsche 111 Point Check.

I understand the above may be met with disappointment but provides a clear understanding of Porsches position.

Thank you for contacting Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited."

Kind regards

Lloyd Harries
Customer Assistance Advisor
Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited
customer.assistance@porsche.co.uk
Tel: 0118 919 1744

This clearly clarifies that only the exhaust system will be excluded for warranty purposes, as opposed to the OPC's previous view that it would be totally voided!

I probably won't want to extend the warranty again in 2018 - but even if I still wanted to, the exhaust could be returned to stock for the 111 point check... Can't wait to hear my car with a 'full voice'..!

Wish me luck....

 

Don't play with fire. This is a very tricky thing. Yes, Porsche is only voiding the warranty for the part "affected" but and here comes the legal part: If Porsche claims that the exhaust change caused an engine damage, good luck to prove them wrong. It is basically impossible. I followed a couple of incidents of this type and Porsche has always won. Careful!

Your money though, so...your decision.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

Don't play with fire. This is a very tricky thing. Yes, Porsche is only voiding the warranty for the part "affected" but and here comes the legal part: If Porsche claims that the exhaust change caused an engine damage, good luck to prove them wrong. It is basically impossible. I followed a couple of incidents of this type and Porsche has always won. Careful!

In the US, it would be Porsche's burden to prove the exhaust harmed the engine (not the customer's burden to prove Porsche is wrong).

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

when something bad happens, put the stock parts back on, then tow to dealer...

Tim

2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
 

Grant:

RC:

Don't play with fire. This is a very tricky thing. Yes, Porsche is only voiding the warranty for the part "affected" but and here comes the legal part: If Porsche claims that the exhaust change caused an engine damage, good luck to prove them wrong. It is basically impossible. I followed a couple of incidents of this type and Porsche has always won. Careful!

In the US, it would be Porsche's burden to prove the exhaust harmed the engine (not the customer's burden to prove Porsche is wrong).

No problem. They present you with development and testing data, it is pretty easy for them to prove but not that easy for the customer to prove them wrong.

I heard these words before but in all the incidents I have "witnessed", Porsche has won.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

John H:

So, five years into 997 GTS ownership and having just extended my OPC warranty for a further 2 years, I'm finally taking the plunge and getting the SharkWerks exhaust by-pass fitted on Thursday...

It's being done by a Specialist I met a year ago who also has a GTS and has a franchise arrangement with Alex (Sharky) Ross.  He's fitted about 50 over the past 14 months and is very well thought of in this area.

I've been wanting to have this done for ages, but have always been warned by my OPC that it would totally invalidate my warranty.  Fortunately, there is now a new Centre Principal, who advised me to contact Porsche GB before deciding.  Here is the written advice I received from them...

"Dear Mr H,

Thank you for your time earlier today, as requested please see the below content.

Porsche Warranty guidelines stipulate that the addition of any after market parts added to the vehicle will cause the warranty on that particular system to be void, in this case the exhaust system.

I must also advise that if you wish to extend your warranty further this will not be possible as the addition of the after market part will not meet the criteria of our Porsche 111 Point Check.

I understand the above may be met with disappointment but provides a clear understanding of Porsches position.

Thank you for contacting Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited."

Kind regards

Lloyd Harries
Customer Assistance Advisor
Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited
customer.assistance@porsche.co.uk
Tel: 0118 919 1744

This clearly clarifies that only the exhaust system will be excluded for warranty purposes, as opposed to the OPC's previous view that it would be totally voided!

I probably won't want to extend the warranty again in 2018 - but even if I still wanted to, the exhaust could be returned to stock for the 111 point check... Can't wait to hear my car with a 'full voice'..!

Wish me luck....

Don't want to be a party pooper, John, but far from providing "a clear understanding of Porsche's position", I think that letter is ambiguous to the point of being potentially misleading.

Whilst one sentence implies that only a non-OEM part is not covered by Porsche's warranty (which no one could reasonably expect to be the case anyway), the following sentence suggests that a warranty extension would not be possible as your car would no longer fulfil the 110-point check criteria.

fritz

Targa Tim:

when something bad happens, put the stock parts back on, then tow to dealer...

First, he already alerted Porsche by asking them. 

Second, the dealer certainly will see the car from time to time and he will "alert" Porsche (dealer is actually obliged to report third party parts to Porsche).

Third, even if the dealer is nice and keeps his mouth shut, Porsche employees travel all the time to dealerships and if they notice cars with third party parts, they write down the VIN number.

Fourth, with some exhaust parts, Porsche can actually "identify" the usage of a third party part due to the data collected by the various control units. Not always, especially when using a different muffler only but different cats, bypass pipes, etc. are quite easily identifiable if Porsche really wants to find out.

If life would be that easy... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Congrats John!  I had the bypass on my 997.2 (and it is still somewhere in the garage ). It does give a real nice exhaust note. Just put the damn thing on and follow Targa Tim's advice.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

bluelines:

Congrats John!  I had the bypass on my 997.2 (and it is still somewhere in the garage ). It does give a real nice exhaust note. Just put the damn thing on and follow Targa Tim's advice.

Also, John...don't forget to put a little bit of money aside, just in case. 

Oh wait, bluelines or Targa Tim will certainly find you a good lawyer if something goes wrong.  

When it comes to money, no games. Porsche is used to these games for a very very long time. They play these games better than (cheating) customers. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

Targa Tim:

when something bad happens, put the stock parts back on, then tow to dealer...

First, he already alerted Porsche by asking them. 

Second, the dealer certainly will see the car from time to time and he will "alert" Porsche (dealer is actually obliged to report third party parts to Porsche).

Third, even if the dealer is nice and keeps his mouth shut, Porsche employees travel all the time to dealerships and if they notice cars with third party parts, they write down the VIN number.

Fourth, with some exhaust parts, Porsche can actually "identify" the usage of a third party part due to the data collected by the various control units. Not always, especially when using a different muffler only but different cats, bypass pipes, etc. are quite easily identifiable if Porsche really wants to find out.

Fifth, the PCM™ (Porsche Communication Management) will use the result from "fourth" and establish a secure connection to PSS™ (Porsche Spy Satellite) global network and report your car as invalid. A team of highly trained Porsche Lederhosen Ninjas will then be dispatched to neutralise your car.

Don't. Do. It.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

bluelines:

Fifth, the PCM™ (Porsche Communication Management) will use the result from "fourth" and establish a secure connection to PSS™ (Porsche Spy Satellite) global network and report your car as invalid. A team of highly trained Porsche Lederhosen Ninjas will then be dispatched to neutralise your car.

 pretty funny blueness....but perhaps not too far from the truth?    

From one who deals with warranties and service agreements on a regular basis:  "I can tell you this",  (as "The Donald" would say here in the US ),  Manufacturer's Warranties (and response letters like the one John received) are written and interpreted by lawyers to protect the manufacturer...NOT the customer!  

BTW, great to hear form you John! Wow, five years has flown by pal! ...but I'm still loving my GTS too!   If fact I love it so much (excuse the off-topic here please) ...that I just ordered a Macan GTS to go along side it!  

All the best to you John!   ...and I agree with your choice...enjoy the exhaust!  ..but don't get the idea the Porsche will ever support aftermarket parts under Porsche Warranties...unless you can get their lawyers to put it in writing?  

Doug C.

Congratulations John on your pride and joy's Fifth Birthday   

I must admit I'm with RC on this one, I wouldn't fit any non OEM parts to my car!  Not sure if that's due to cowardice or lack of imagination on my part. I've seen too many major disasters with machinery (albeit not automotive) when owners try and go off piste with non OEM parts.  However I can't believe an after market exhaust should cause any issues, it's not a tuning kit after all.  And it will sound great, I'm sure 

Good luck though and hope we can meet soon! 

--

Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive

Guys, I couldn't care less. I'm just trying to make John aware of the risk involved, nothing more and nothing less. No need for mockery, especially since I have "witnessed" lots of cases where people were forced to pay the bill because they didn't realize the risk.

On a 997 GTS, there is a simple mod to keep the exhaust on (flaps open) all the time and this one cannot be easily detected, not even when the car is at the dealership. If this sound isn't enough, well...  Most dealers should know how and if not, there is a kit available from Carnewal for little money. A do it yourself job btw..

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

On the other hand my Aston dealer installed a Larini exhaust and factory power kit with no warranty issue. Then 7 years after the manufacture of the car, they factory upgraded the bluetooth with the latest technology... You could only dream to get that kind of after sale service from Porsche.

@bluelines, welcome back...

John H:

So, five years into 997 GTS ownership and having just extended my OPC warranty for a further 2 years, I'm finally taking the plunge and getting the SharkWerks exhaust by-pass fitted on Thursday...

It's being done by a Specialist I met a year ago who also has a GTS and has a franchise arrangement with Alex (Sharky) Ross.  He's fitted about 50 over the past 14 months and is very well thought of in this area.

I've been wanting to have this done for ages, but have always been warned by my OPC that it would totally invalidate my warranty.  Fortunately, there is now a new Centre Principal, who advised me to contact Porsche GB before deciding.  Here is the written advice I received from them...

"Dear Mr H,

Thank you for your time earlier today, as requested please see the below content.

Porsche Warranty guidelines stipulate that the addition of any after market parts added to the vehicle will cause the warranty on that particular system to be void, in this case the exhaust system.

I must also advise that if you wish to extend your warranty further this will not be possible as the addition of the after market part will not meet the criteria of our Porsche 111 Point Check.

I understand the above may be met with disappointment but provides a clear understanding of Porsches position.

Thank you for contacting Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited."

Kind regards

Lloyd Harries
Customer Assistance Advisor
Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited
customer.assistance@porsche.co.uk
Tel: 0118 919 1744

This clearly clarifies that only the exhaust system will be excluded for warranty purposes, as opposed to the OPC's previous view that it would be totally voided!

I probably won't want to extend the warranty again in 2018 - but even if I still wanted to, the exhaust could be returned to stock for the 111 point check... Can't wait to hear my car with a 'full voice'..!

Wish me luck....

 

Great John and glad you are going forward with the mod .

Your car is old enough to be able to take a slight risk .   And what risk ??? As the letter stated, they will cover if it is not related to the exhaust , which is normal .

Hi Guys - Many thanks for your varied opinions and I take them all on board...

I'm inclined to go with the positive ones at this stage.  The main reason is that this 911 is now 'a keeper' as I will have no interest in future Porsche offerings of 'turbo only'..!!  I've only covered 26K miles in the five years and, if anything, the GTS just gets better with time.. 

I want to bring just a little more excitement to my driving experience - this means putting right the only weak area, compared with previous models, which is the exhaust note. 

Christian, I've had the Gert Carnewal remote device, which you refer to, fitted since you recommended it when you had your own 997 GTS.  The only difference this makes is that the PSE is always on (no need to press the button).  This is great on 'start-up' but diminishes pretty quickly thereafter.  I've heard the sound of the SharkWerks, on the GTS of the guy who will be fitting mine tomorrow - it really is a very different and permanent experience..

I did run the letter I received past a prominent Lawyer who considered it to be a clear reflection of Porsche's position on the matter in GB.  I'm sure that their attitude varies from country to country as evidenced by several users on R/T - I remember 'PureBlue', who hasn't posted here for quite a while, when his OPC in South Africa actually fitted the mod themselves..

Anyway, I'm having it done tomorrow afternoon and will report back later on... many thanks again for your interest in this.. 

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

I've the same view with regards to our "junior" GTS - to me the characteristics of the n/a flat six is irreplaceable and like you we are also only covering 5,000 miles a year. At least the 911 clientele still have the classic flat six rather than a totally uninspiring four. The sound of ours is amazing, almost non-Porsche in volume and tone. It's as if the factory, realising this (along with the other n/a Cayman & Carrera GTS / GT4 / Boxster Spyder models) is the final hurrah for this engine type and produced something rather special. After all, the fact that these latest turbo engines are there has everything to do with keeping the tree huggers happy and nothing to do with making better sports cars 

--

Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive

Targa Tim:

when something bad happens, put the stock parts back on, then tow to dealer...

my previous comment is obviously partly joking, please don't take it seriously.

I have a lot of after market performance enhancing parts on my RS, it is out of its 4 years warranty anyway, car is running well.

997GTS definitely a keeper.

I have my 991GTS for a few weeks now, PDK, not fully broken in, but it "feels" bigger and heavier to drive around town.  Maybe it will open up after break in.

My 997 club coupe in manual is my preferred driver of the two, more nimble for turn in, and manual is more fun to drive without traffic jams.

Tim

2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
 

The GTS engine will start to "breathe free" after around 5-6k km. 

My car has almost 8000 km now and the engine just amazes me.

@John H: The 997 GTS exhaust system is, in my opinion, loud enough with the remote device to keep the flaps open all the time. Keep in mind that the car loses a bit of it's originality when the exhaust gets even louder and from my experience, it usually not only gets louder but the sound changes.

I rather think you entered the phase of getting a bit bored with the car, this is why you want to improve sound. At some point, this won't be enough and what then? Just make sure you don't play around with the catalytic converters and you don't get a "tuned" software. The software thing can always be traced, no matter if you remove it or use a piggyback device. To be honest, before I'd do anything with the car, I would ask the dealer what a new engine, new gearbox, etc. costs. Just to throw in some perspective and food for thought.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Christian - I really do appreciate your concern and I'm grateful for your time in getting the points across..

I'm not in the least bit bored with my car - on the contrary, I think I'm overly obsessed with it and still get a thrill every time I drive it or even just look at it...

I've spent over a year considering the pros & cons of fitting the SharkWerks by-pass.  I've listened to other owner's cars, who have it fitted, and must say I'm very impressed with the difference it makes to the exhaust note.  I've also spoken directly with Porsche GB Ltd. and had them put their official position on the issue clearly in writing.  I've also shown the correspondence to relatives of mine, who are prominent in the legal profession, and they consider that the warranty will hold good for everything bar the exhaust itself...

I'm not going to play around with any other 'tuning' or fit any other non-OEM parts - with the improved sound the car will be exactly what I want and will be a perfect keeper.  That's not to say I won't add another model to my garage but I won't be parting with the GTS...

Just off now to get it fitted....

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

John H:

Christian - I really do appreciate your concern and I'm grateful for your time in getting the points across..

I'm not in the least bit bored with my car - on the contrary, I think I'm overly obsessed with it and still get a thrill every time I drive it or even just look at it...

I've spent over a year considering the pros & cons of fitting the SharkWerks by-pass.  I've listened to other owner's cars, who have it fitted, and must say I'm very impressed with the difference it makes to the exhaust note.  I've also spoken directly with Porsche GB Ltd. and had them put their official position on the issue clearly in writing.  I've also shown the correspondence to relatives of mine, who are prominent in the legal profession, and they consider that the warranty will hold good for everything bar the exhaust itself...

I'm not going to play around with any other 'tuning' or fit any other non-OEM parts - with the improved sound the car will be exactly what I want and will be a perfect keeper.  That's not to say I won't add another model to my garage but I won't be parting with the GTS...

Just off now to get it fitted....

I hope so. When I am starting to change stuff on my cars, this is usually a bad sign. 

Enjoy your toy in good health, I didn't want to be a party pooper. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Well, it's done and what can I say?  Why, oh why, did I wait a full five years to put the defining final touch to such a great car...

The sound is simply glorious - even better when actually driving than when listening to someone else's...

The job took just two hours and I came home the very long way around before finally getting out.  Even then I found an excuse to go out again - obviously the long way around again!!

Seriously guys, this is the best thing I've done since placing the original order which was contentious, at the time, due to the imminent arrival of the 991... I'm a really, really happy bunny!! 

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

That is great to hear John! (pardon the pun )...congrats! 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Seriously guys, this is the best thing I've done since placing the original order which was contentious, at the time, due to the imminent arrival of the 991... I'm a really, really happy bunny!! 

@ John

That's awesome to "hear" man!    Once again you have caught my GTS attention... like when we were first sharing our new and glorious experiences with these classic GTS's.  ...and like you,  I still love the car more and more all the time!  Yep, it's a true keeper!    

Congrats on the new exhaust...and I must hear it somehow!   I just love your enthusiasm about the car and thanks for sharing.  So now I will have to explore SharkWerks  in great detail....and looking forward to it too!  

Enjoy. I have upgraded many 911 exhausts. The old water cooled '84 911s sounded even better with performance exhaust systems and also gained significant power.  I also recall my fabspeed mufflers on my 996 and can relate to realizing you should have done it sooner.  Porsche should not be in the owners way to enjoy their car for the money they are charging.  Glad that does not really fly here and we get longer warranties as well. It's just a matter of competition. 

John I really wish you hadnt done this as your going to torment me with it i just know. Mine will be back on the road in march so we can compare notes. I find it amazing the number of GTS owners that fall into the camp of long term keepers and im rapidly heading the same way. In truth the only 911 that could sway me is 991.1 GTS so i best not drive one. Super thats its all worked out.

John H:

Well, it's done and what can I say?  Why, oh why, did I wait a full five years to put the defining final touch to such a great car...

The sound is simply glorious - even better when actually driving than when listening to someone else's...

The job took just two hours and I came home the very long way around before finally getting out.  Even then I found an excuse to go out again - obviously the long way around again!!

Seriously guys, this is the best thing I've done since placing the original order which was contentious, at the time, due to the imminent arrival of the 991... I'm a really, really happy bunny!! 

 

 

Great news John, really pleased that you are happy with the mod. 

Hopefully if we meet up in the summer yours won't make my "baby" GTS sound too inferior...........

Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive