Crown

Not much to see yet:  http://www.worldcarfans.com/113103065291/2016-porsche-panamera-mule-spied-for-the-first-time

Seems like the dimensions won't change much:  http://www.worldcarfans.com/113110165412/next-gen-porsche-panamera-mule-spied-again

Thread has gone dark--like Panamera sales.  Next generation will need a substantial design change, hopefully before 2015.  Any new news?

The Panamera facelift has been poorly received in Kuwait - not many sales since launch and no added incentive or appeal to get buyers into them; I've only seen five on the road since they came to the country in August! Cayenne, 911 [particularly the base Carrera] and Cayman sales are through the roof; execs tell me that our dealer is the region's highest performer with those cars.

I'm personally disappointed by the facelift and hope Porsche does a more commendable move with the forthcoming model. While the Panamera remains a distinctive and unique vehicle, the facelift has been far too subtle to create any ripples in the segment.

rulesdontapply

2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
2012 Porsche Cayenne S

Totally agree. Only positive is possible bargains on cars sitting at dealers….

What they need to do is getting rid of the badly designed hump on the rear roof line. And possibly put in rear bench instead of 2 buckets. 

My Panamera Turbo S was a wonderful car but I think Porsche made a couple of mistakes (from my perspective) with this car:

1. Too expensive

2. Too big, especially for Europe but without the proper luggage room

3. "Hump" in the rear not necessary since the Panamera never was really a chauffeur's car

4. Too massive looking (BMW 5 series is almost as big but looks much smaller)

5. Drive feel not sporty enough at lower speeds, car "switches" from comfort to sport too synthetically

6. "Hybrid" feel, no meat, no fish, nothing really in-between, difficult to describe

7. Too heavy (you cannot really feel the weight but it is there and somehow you are always reminded of it)

8. No five seats (plus the limited luggage space) make it unusable for many people

So why doesn't it sell too well anymore? Simple answer: People got bored and it is just too expensive to make people give it another try. I will never ever get a Panamera anymore, simply because it isn't what I was looking for. Weirdly enough, I liked the car and if I would be a billionaire with a huge garage and dozens of cars in it, I would probably have a Panamera Turbo S in there too. For people who do not require the extra room in the back (for passengers), there are better offers from Porsche. Take the 991 Turbo S for example: This car is pure genius. It can be used as a (quite comfortable) daily driver but when you need it, it can be fast as hell. Luggage room? Actually, I think you can put there luggage into the 991 Turbo S than in the Panamera. I once traveled with two large Samsonite luggage pieces in a 996 Carrera and the same should be possible with the 991 too (if you don't need the rear seats).

On the other hand, the competition (BMW and Mercedes) have closed in a lot. The new 5 series is a good car for little money (compared to the Panamera). The new S class is just out of this world (according to many customers, they love the technical advancements) and even the new E63 AMG S is quite a interesting competitor for much less money.

I assume Porsche will use the same next gen tactics they used for the Cayenne for the next gen Panamera. Meaning: Less massive look and some major design improvements. In the case of the Panamera, the exterior will be the main focusing point. Of course Porsche will also try to add many technology goodies to the next gen Panamera to close the gap to the BMW 7 series and especially the new Mercedes S class.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

A big issue for me with the Panamera and really the Cayenne too is that the dash controls are just not optimized for the size of the car ... in particular the touch screen. It's optimized for where it was born, the much narrower confines of a 911.  Same goes for the whole PCM.  They try to hide this be sandwiching the screen between huge A/C vents sacrificing prime real estate.  They really need to take advantage of the vehicle width like everyone else does in the full size classes. 

I can see why they would be resistant to this at first because creating an interface for a bigger screen and different controls is a huge engineering effort and will take some time -- just blowing up the existing UI and making it bigger would look like hell.  But man are they behind Daimler and BMW in this area. Maybe parent VM/Audi with MMI might come to the rescue.

While I get the smaller PCM screen size in the 911 and Boxster/Cayman, I don't understand why Porsche doesn't use a bigger screen in the Cayenne and Panamera. Well... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

While I get the smaller PCM screen size in the 911 and Boxster/Cayman, I don't understand why Porsche doesn't use a bigger screen in the Cayenne and Panamera. Well... 

Same problem as most of the vendors.... the IT is always 6 years back. The only company which does a good job is BMW which started early enough with full integration. The Porsche system is ok but many features still missing - head up display - full integration of online services - etc. 

RC... if you are looking for a huge screen buy a Tesla 

RC:

My Panamera Turbo S was a wonderful car but I think Porsche made a couple of mistakes (from my perspective) with this car:

1. Too expensive

[...]

5. Drive feel not sporty enough at lower speeds, car "switches" from comfort to sport too synthetically

[...] if I would be a billionaire with a huge garage and dozens of cars in it, I would probably have a Panamera Turbo S in there too.

Of course, it's predicated on your being a billionaire and filling out your "collection", but, having read elsewhere how much you disliked the standard Power Steering Plus (even at highway speeds, I believe?), would you really include the Panamera Turbo S in your hypothetical garage? 

DaveChapin:

A big issue for me with the Panamera and really the Cayenne too is that the dash controls are just not optimized for the size of the car ... in particular the touch screen. It's optimized for where it was born, the much narrower confines of a 911.  Same goes for the whole PCM.  They try to hide this be sandwiching the screen between huge A/C vents sacrificing prime real estate.  They really need to take advantage of the vehicle width like everyone else does in the full size classes. 

I can see why they would be resistant to this at first because creating an interface for a bigger screen and different controls is a huge engineering effort and will take some time -- just blowing up the existing UI and making it bigger would look like hell.  But man are they behind Daimler and BMW in this area. Maybe parent VM/Audi with MMI might come to the rescue.

True. I chastise BMW for their designs but they've come a long way with their iDrive system; it went from frustrating in its first iterations to being a lot more attractive and easier to use. I love the resolution, intuitive nature and responsiveness of the PCM system but I agree that Porsche needs to step their game up a bit. BMW offers 6.5-inch screens as standard on their sedans with the option of expanding them to 8.8 inches in the full-size package but the new X5 features a standard 10.2-inch screen. I've seen it and it is colossal; gorgeous display, very crisp graphics and high resolution. 

With regards to screen size, I fully believed the Macan would feature an eight-inch screen since spy shots showed a more square screen than the previous cars. Shame they went with the seven-inch we see across the range but it doesn't look like it's going away anytime soon. The only difference with this one is the relocation of the SIM card and CD slots from the PCM unit itself to the small cubby-like space below the screen. Perhaps one day that space will be filled with a bigger screen that takes the cubby thing away?

rulesdontapply

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2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
2012 Porsche Cayenne S

RC:

 

On the other hand, the competition (BMW and Mercedes) have closed in a lot. The new 5 series is a good car for little money (compared to the Panamera). The new S class is just out of this world (according to many customers, they love the technical advancements) and even the new E63 AMG S is quite a interesting competitor for much less money.

I assume Porsche will use the same next gen tactics they used for the Cayenne for the next gen Panamera. Meaning: Less massive look and some major design improvements. In the case of the Panamera, the exterior will be the main focusing point. Of course Porsche will also try to add many technology goodies to the next gen Panamera to close the gap to the BMW 7 series and especially the new Mercedes S class.

 

 

Porsche was never ahead. It was and is still chasing the leaders in the segment.

Other than the title of Ugliest Car in the lineup, it lacks an identity. It tries to play in the full size sedan segment while everyone else expects it to be in the mid size segment.

The E63/M5 owners are eager to switch over to Porsche but most are put off by the outside dimension. Porsche lost quite a bit of sale there. 

The big sedan crowd, S63/65, B7 and S8 owners on the other hand can't switch over because it's not 'big' enough, 4 seats instead of 5 limits it's appeal. I was a B7 owner and I had wanted to switch over, didn't because of the 4 seat configuration. The S8 on the other hand drops right in, 5 seaters, awd, plus it's a rocket ship just like the Panamera. 

As it now stands, Panamera is playing in no mans land. 

apias:

Of course, it's predicated on your being a billionaire and filling out your "collection", but, having read elsewhere how much you disliked the standard Power Steering Plus (even at highway speeds, I believe?), would you really include the Panamera Turbo S in your hypothetical garage? 

Yes. I would want at least one sedan and the Panamera Turbo S would probably be it.   Not a Rolls fan. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

Yes. I would want at least one sedan and the Panamera Turbo S would probably be it.   Not a Rolls fan. 

No, I don't really picture you happy behind the wheel of a Rolls, not even something vintage, unless maybe it required goggles. 

Agree with your analysis, RC, about reasons Panamera sales are slacking off.  But i have underestimated Porsche before.  My guess is that Porsche damn well knows what it needs to do to keep the Panamera appealing, and will offer a knockout piece of work in the second generation.  Porsche has too great an investment in the Panamera line to watch it slowly fade away….

I have high expectations for new Panamera. I predict that new model should bring sportier design, better entry price with powerful 4cyl turbocharged engines (hybrid could be option too) and big weight loss. I assume that interior for future Panamera is shown on Porsche Panamera Sport Turismo Concept.

In terms of design I would like to see something like this: 

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My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

Here is interior with few adjustments  Integrated air vents are "must" for new Panamera  Regular air vents are so old-fashion compared to this genius solution!

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My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

No way the new Panamera will have cameras as side view mirrors... just my .02.  Beautiful pictures, though!

Wonderbar:

Agree with your analysis, RC, about reasons Panamera sales are slacking off.  But i have underestimated Porsche before.  My guess is that Porsche damn well knows what it needs to do to keep the Panamera appealing, and will offer a knockout piece of work in the second generation.  Porsche has too great an investment in the Panamera line to watch it slowly fade away….

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Looks great! I would be very interested if it looked like this!

Aren't Tesla lobbying to have cameras approved to replace side mirrors. It makes sense in this day and age....

2013 BMW 750 xDrive MSport & 2012 x5 - TurboS Cab on Order Mar14. Range Rover V8 on order June14

Great work Milano!!!

Cameras in side mirrors is a long process as it needs to adjust the compliance requirements and regulations in many countries.

I wholeheartedly agree about the great work posted by Milano.  If only the next generation Panamera would ape those lines, I would even consider adding that the stable.

Another car, not previously mentioned, but a suitable competitor to  the Panamera, in performance, but not necessarily in price is the Audi RS7.  That car is a rocket ship.  If one needs added cargo space, the Audi RS6 fulfills that role.

Tesla has petitioned the U.S. Department of Transportation to allow for the use of camera as a substitute for rearview side mirrors recently.  This will be interesting since, Audi recently petitioned the same agency to allow an updating for headlamp regulations dating back to 1965 for its new multi-matrix beam LED lamps.  Of course, DOT said no.

Beautiful sketches!

KMM:

Beautiful sketches!

 

Beautiful indeed but would you actually buy one of these and drive it to work?!  Too stylish I'm afraid, not what they typical Porsche customer is looking for.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Agree, RC, but the sketches do have some design elements that I predict will make their way into future Panameras.  The 991 taillights, the wider stance, the panorama roofline, the incorporation of the rear spoiler into the rear fenders, etc.  If done "in the Porsche style", they could be very appealing to Porsche customers...

Current bulky design of Panamera is anything but Porsche design philosophy. IMO Porsche makes stylish cars indeed, not bulky ones, or even worse - shiny ones  So, yes, Panamera should be more stylish, and less damn bulky 

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My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

Milanno:

Current bulky design of Panamera is anything but Porsche design philosophy. IMO Porsche makes stylish cars indeed, not bulky ones, or even worse - shiny ones  So, yes, Panamera should be more stylish, and less damn bulky 

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My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

I guess we are talking second generation then. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I had discussion with my friends over espresso break regarding next Panamera  Given some cool gadgets we saw on 991, 918 & on Macan I assume we could see: 1. RWS - could be crucial for improving driving dynamics; 2. Powerful 4cyl petrol & diesel engines; 3. Extensive usage of aluminium aiming lighter construction; 4. Hybrid technology for Turbo/S model (I wonder is this useful combination); 5. Completely new interior design, since original Panamera featured specific style that was later introduced on other  models; 6. Exterior design should be massively revised, especially bulky rear; 7. Frame-less door windows 

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My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

That's nice but they need:

1) a bigger trunk

2) 3 people bench in the back

3) lower price...