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    Mar 23, 2006 2:47:42 PM

    0two9
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    MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    some more pics of the new ///M3 in camo and testing. It is denoted by the larger thicker wheels, flared (or more flared) fenders, the M3 dual exhuasts (4), and the different front air intake aero's-- as well as the different rocker panels. Ladies and gents- the bmw M3 V8.

    Mar 23, 2006 3:41:43 PM

    Friscorays
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    Reply to: 0two9

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    I guess there is a small chance the camo is hiding some interesting design elements.

    If it is not then yawwwwnnnnn.....

    Mar 23, 2006 3:47:46 PM

    993Targa
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    Reply to: Friscorays

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    If there is going to be an M3 touring I'm in, don't like the coupe nor the sedan

    Mar 23, 2006 3:58:33 PM

    harryo2b
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    Reply to: 993Targa

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Boring.

    Mar 23, 2006 4:16:35 PM

    95jersey
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    Reply to: harryo2b

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    I like the older one better and the late 90's version even more

    Mar 23, 2006 4:17:02 PM

    0two9
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    Reply to: harryo2b

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    With the way bmw is designing the M's.. I'm sure it won't be anything super amazing, but I'm sure it will drive better than any of the competitors. And the 415hp it has won't hurt it either. As my daily driver--- I'm more than excited to put down money on it (which I did this morning).

    Mar 23, 2006 5:30:58 PM

    vladimir
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    Reply to: 0two9

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    well i'll take CLK63 with 480 hp thank you very much. And i like E46 design better.

    Mar 23, 2006 6:38:41 PM

    Hurst
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    Reply to: 0two9

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    0two9 said:
    With the way bmw is designing the M's.. I'm sure it won't be anything super amazing, but I'm sure it will drive better than any of the competitors. And the 415hp it has won't hurt it either. As my daily driver--- I'm more than excited to put down money on it (which I did this morning).



    Did your dealer give you any specs on it? Weight figures? Confirmed hp? Anything else? Approx price figures?

    Thanks

    Mar 23, 2006 6:44:13 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Little bit more info and the same pics are on:
    http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cf...irst-spy-photos

    Mar 23, 2006 7:28:11 PM

    AJVIP
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Why do people keep posting pictures of black Honda Civic sports coupes?

    Mar 23, 2006 8:29:24 PM

    0two9
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    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    yeah I asked all of those questions- I'm sure they know but they didn't tell me anything. All they said was that the coupe and convertible will be the first ones out... they didn't know if the 4 door would come out. Also, very stupidly- it would cost more than the current one (nooooo [censored])- so it's probably 2k more. The way to estimate the cost is wait until bmw comes out with their 3 series coupe and and then spec it all the way out (the price of a spec'd out 330ci would be sufficient) that will be equivalent to what an M3 with some options should cost. Or- basically it should be the cost of a 530i.

    Mar 23, 2006 8:35:07 PM

    svtrader1
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    Reply to: 0two9

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    0two9 said:
    And the 415hp it has won't hurt it either.



    415 hp is going to hurt a lot of 911 egos.

    Mar 23, 2006 8:47:49 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: svtrader1

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    0two9 said:
    And the 415hp it has won't hurt it either.



    415 hp is going to hurt a lot of 911 egos.


    Same power as 997GT3 for half the price...

    Mar 23, 2006 9:01:31 PM

    0two9
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    that qoute of 415 comes from world car fans- not the dealer that I spoke with. However, the M3 is probably heavier than the GT3--- and it won't look as good or have the brakes that porsche has-- (the interior should be good). The GT3 is faster too...

    However, the M3 sets the bar for luxury-sports touring cars- so it should be able to do it again.

    Also- An example- the new M roadster costs 52,300 MSRP--- the M3 will cost 2 or 3k more than that.. so most likely 55k msrp- and then spec'd maybe 57-58k. (however, again, you gotta wait until the coupes come out and then add 10-12k to the msrp price- and that should be what the price of the base m3 will be.) the price is the same for the z4's- about 10k more gives you a z4... about 10-12k more should give a person the price for the m3 (once the coupes come out.

    Mar 23, 2006 9:26:02 PM

    95jersey
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    Reply to: AJVIP

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Somthing important that I haven't seen yet...how much does it weight?

    Mar 23, 2006 10:48:37 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: 0two9

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    0two9 said:
    that qoute of 415 comes from world car fans- not the dealer that I spoke with. However, the M3 is probably heavier than the GT3--- and it won't look as good or have the brakes that porsche has-- (the interior should be good). The GT3 is faster too...


    Absolutely - GT3 is the superior performing car by far. But, I bet it doesn't cost Porsche more to build a GT3 than it does for BMW to build a 415hp M3 (BMW has very nice material and comes with a wealth of standard features). I guess that's why Porsche is the world's most profitable car company ;-)

    Mar 23, 2006 10:49:45 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: 95jersey

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    Somthing important that I haven't seen yet...how much does it weight?


    My guess is over 3,500 lbs in Coupe form.

    Mar 23, 2006 10:54:23 PM

    0two9
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    I agree. My current 911/997 C2 cost a lot of money just for me to add some standard things- you want yellow speedo gauges- that's like 400 bucks, you want painted wheel emblems- that's like another 600. Bmw is a complete package that allows for some tinkering. If I trully wanted all the stuff I wanted on my current porsche it would have costed about 108k. I love my car- but it isn't worth 108k- I don't think it's worth what I paid for it. But that's how posche rolls... The cost of a good 911 C4 cab will run you the price of a used Ferrari 360 f1- and even though the ferrari would need alot of things- I would never choose a porsche over a ferrari.

    Mar 24, 2006 3:58:37 AM

    svtrader1
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    Grant said:

    I bet it doesn't cost Porsche more to build a GT3 than it does for BMW to build a 415hp M3 (BMW has very nice material and comes with a wealth of standard features). I guess that's why Porsche is the world's most profitable car company ;-)



    It probably cost BMW more to build the M3, because, of the money spent on R&D for an all new, high revving, 100+hp per liter engine.

    While the GT3 is the same old 3.6 from the 996.

    So, yes, they have the shareholders interest at heart.

    Mar 24, 2006 4:45:57 AM

    Grant
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    Reply to: svtrader1

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:It probably cost BMW more to build the M3, because, of the money spent on R&D for an all new, high revving, 100+hp per liter engine.

    While the GT3 is the same old 3.6 from the 996.


    Come on - 415hp from a 3.6 with Ti Conrods and 8,400rpm is no slouch. I think the replacement cost of that motor is about the cost of a new M3 (seriously over $40k...). That's the one part where they really go all-out

    Mar 24, 2006 5:33:15 AM

    svtrader1
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:It probably cost BMW more to build the M3, because, of the money spent on R&D for an all new, high revving, 100+hp per liter engine.

    While the GT3 is the same old 3.6 from the 996.


    Come on - 415hp from a 3.6 with Ti Conrods and 8,400rpm is no slouch. I think the replacement cost of that motor is about the cost of a new M3 (seriously over $40k...). That's the one part where they really go all-out



    I'm not saying it's a slouch. I'm saying it cost Porsche virtually nothing in R&D, because, it's an old engine. And it cost them very little to build them, too.

    But, of course, Porsche can charge whatever the want.

    Mar 24, 2006 6:08:20 AM

    Grant
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    Reply to: svtrader1

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:I'm not saying it's a slouch. I'm saying it cost Porsche virtually nothing in R&D, because, it's an old engine. And it cost them very little to build them, too.

    But, of course, Porsche can charge whatever the want.


    Wow - I can understand some of the criticisms of Porsche (and how much of it is overpriced), but that may be the finest motor you can buy in a car today. You realize that the 3.6L motor in the GT3 shares almost nothing in common (maybe not a single part) with the 3.6L motor in the 996 or 997 Carrera, right?

    It is a dry-sump, bulletproof, raceproven powerplant that traces its roots to the GT1 racecar and has Titanium internals and is very expensive to build. It is significantly improved over the 996GT3 (itself a jewel of a motor). I can't see how anyone could point a firger of blame at that motor or any cost-cutting measures to produce it - seriously?

    As for the new M3's V8, I think it's a nice motor, but it needed 2 more cylinders and 400-800cc (depending on what you read - 4L to 4.4L) to produce the same power.

    It is basically the M5's V10 with two cylinders lopped off, so it's not a complete redesign. It's wet sump too. I'm sure it will pull very strongly (and have more torque than the GT3), but it is not going to as bulletproof and track ready, imho. Still a fantastic bargain - too bad the car around it is so heavy and bland though. The E30 M3 of the 80's was a thoroughbred track car and each successive model has diluted that essence (while becoming faster in straight line)

    Mar 24, 2006 6:26:36 AM

    0two9
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Where has anyone read the specs of the new M3 engine? all anyone knows is that it is a v8 and will be over 390 hp. So far as dry sump- doesn't the M5 have dry sump!? (I could be wrong...) But again, the E46 m3 has a semi dry sump app that does the job for it. Also, the fact of the matter is that most individuals (even porsche drivers) don't push their cars to the limits that would even necessitate the use of a dry sump application. The same is true for ferrari owners and drivers. Only those individuals that go out on track days and actually DRIVE their car need to do upgrades--- the brakes (for MOST cars- it's a good idea to bring a 2nd or third set of pads)---that's even the case with ferrari owners. For most people- you will want another set of tires. These things- people can't change.

    So far as track cars (hahaha, I'm a young guy, but...)I got into bmw's and german cars in highschool. I ended up taking out a local dealerships M3 light weight (basically a track days car that was sold if you asked for it)-- I used it for my senior prom back in 2k. THE CAR HAD NO AIRCONDITIONING!!!! the seats were hard.... the radio sucked and it was loud. HOWEVER, I was the guy with the m3 lightweight. And did I care if my date was sweating her ass off after dinner on our way to the dance? HELL NO.

    But I'm 23 now. I hate sweating on my way to work or when I don't need to, I want to hear my music, I don't truly want to feel every bump in the road- and I don't want to make 30,000 shifts just traveling 24 miles. The M3 is the right car for me. I own a porsche too.... but it only goes out on the wknds...usually, I'm in a different mood then.

    Mar 24, 2006 7:25:27 AM

    svtrader1
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:I'm not saying it's a slouch. I'm saying it cost Porsche virtually nothing in R&D, because, it's an old engine. And it cost them very little to build them, too.

    But, of course, Porsche can charge whatever the want.


    You realize that the 3.6L motor in the GT3 shares almost nothing in common (maybe not a single part) with the 3.6L motor in the 996 or 997 Carrera, right?




    Yes! My fault...I should've been more clear; it's virtually the same engine as the 996 GT3. And yes, I understand it's a great engine, but, it cost Porsche very little to build them. They've already recouped R&D costs for this engine on the 996 GT3 and 996 turbo. The manufacturing process is the same, the casting is the same, the assembly is the same. That's why Porsche isn't charging that much more for the 997GT3 and 997 turbo.

    So, Porsche is maximizing profit by cutting cost! Again, great if you're a shareholder.

    Mar 24, 2006 9:29:16 AM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: svtrader1

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Here is info from my dealer:
    M3 Showcar will be at Paris 2006 this autumn. Production M3 will be in Geneva 2007. First cars in Germany May 2007, rest of Europe June 2007. No pricing at the moment but, he said to me to expect 65000Euro in Germany(with Mwst) so, new M3 will be around 10% more then the old one...
    Power? 415hp is minimum, expect 420-425hp.
    No final decision on gearbox... BMW wants to build it with 7speed SMG only but, market demands 6speed manual(stick) as well... Interesting, isn't it!?
    My dealer will except order only after Paris 2006 show when they get more info from BMW.

    Mar 24, 2006 10:52:13 AM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    The new M3 looks bland to the point of being a complete non-entity IMO. I wouldn't own or drive one no matter how good the engine might be.

    Mar 24, 2006 11:12:45 AM

    RichJ
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Have to agree with you there, looks pretty boring so far and have been thinking about getting my deposit back however the promise of a high revving 400+ bhp V8 is very very tempting.
    I dont think were seeing much of the final design here and when the its shown I reckon it will be much better than this. Fingers crossed anyway!

    Mar 24, 2006 3:38:56 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: svtrader1

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:Yes! My fault...I should've been more clear; it's virtually the same engine as the 996 GT3. And yes, I understand it's a great engine, but, it cost Porsche very little to build them. They've already recouped R&D costs for this engine on the 996 GT3 and 996 turbo. The manufacturing process is the same, the casting is the same, the assembly is the same. That's why Porsche isn't charging that much more for the 997GT3 and 997 turbo.


    I'd love to know what your source is regarding the manufacturing cost of the 997GT3 motor. Its parts are very expensive, even if much of the R&D is learned from previous versions of the motor. Yes, it is a development of the 996GT3 motor, but getting 9% more power from a motor that now makes 115 hp/L is not a simple feat. Especially when it is built to go endurance racing (not just quick for short bursts on the road).

    Yes, I drive my cars hard enough to appreciate the dry sump - I'll be happy to demonstrate if you're ever in Denver and are up for a trackday

    Mar 24, 2006 3:45:11 PM

    95jersey
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    I don't think you can compare GT3 and M3. They are so different. I would compare standard 997 to the M3. I bet even with the HP, the 997 will pull better lap times. But the M3 is about fun street driving with the ability to put kids or adults in the back seat. Nice daily, but that's about it.

    Mar 24, 2006 4:46:15 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: 95jersey

    Re: MMMMMMMMMMMMM3

    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    I don't think you can compare GT3 and M3. They are so different. I would compare standard 997 to the M3. I bet even with the HP, the 997 will pull better lap times. But the M3 is about fun street driving with the ability to put kids or adults in the back seat. Nice daily, but that's about it.



    Very well said.
     
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